OK Ryan "Tough-guy" Whitney, you have convinced me

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OK Ryan "Tough-guy" Whitney, you have convinced me

Postby NIN on Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:24 pm

I have been critical of the Penguins 22 year old blueliner Ryan Whitney. I even called him tinkerbell once. I take it back. Whit showed heart and fire and urgency in his game and the result was a Penguin win. The whole team picked it up but Whitney was the best player on the ice. He skated with authority, played smart in his own end (for the most part), and he even took a hit to get the FORECHECK going.

This is the first round pick we saw play for a few weeks earlier this season. Coaching obviously is going to have a huge influence on his playing style and I think they have allowed him to get more involved, and he responded. The forwards skated hard in the N-zone and he got the puck to them with some great passes.

Maybe the twig isnt too long for him? :?
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Re: OK Ryan "Tough-guy" Whitney, you have convince

Postby Jesse on Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:38 pm

The entire core of defenders did such a great job tonight.

Orpick and Scuderi player particularly well.

Gonchar gone, Endicott gone, is it any coincedince that we won?

We still need to cut down on the power-plays.

9 is too many, again.
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Postby jmh70 on Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:44 pm

Whitney has already shown that he carries the puck more effectively than Gonchar. As soon as Whitney's shot improves, Gonchar will be officially useless.
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Postby netwolf on Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:50 pm

jmh70 wrote:Whitney has already shown that he carries the puck more effectively than Gonchar. As soon as Whitney's shot improves, Gonchar will be officially useless.


That's pretty funny. One good game from Whitney after looking lost for months and all of the sudden he's a good shot away from making Gonchar useless.

Gonchar has had a largely forgettable season, but if you can't see that he's actually been playing well the last 2-3 weeks, I don't know what to tell you. In that span, he's played pretty much to his capabilities, minus the goal scoring. That part will come if he continues to shoot as much as as he has recently.
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Postby randy on Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:55 pm

i love how people rush to these judgment evaluations after a few games or even a season, The stuff said about shane endicott is the same stuff they said in detroit when primeau broke in. Same thing with joel otto in calgary
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Postby Jesse on Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:00 am

randy wrote:i love how people rush to these judgment evaluations after a few games or even a season, The stuff said about shane endicott is the same stuff they said in detroit when primeau broke in. Same thing with joel otto in calgary


You just compared Primeau to Endicott???


Endicott is an idiot, if you can't see that, god bless you.


Gonchar has come around, I think these games off will serve him well. He'll get a chance to watch from the box and gather his thoughts.

Never know, nights like these, from high above the ice, can be nights where a player finds his game.

Call me when Endicott turns into Primeau.
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Postby Jesse on Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:01 am

randy wrote:i love how people rush to these judgment evaluations after a few games or even a season, The stuff said about shane endicott is the same stuff they said in detroit when primeau broke in. Same thing with joel otto in calgary


You just compared Primeau to Endicott???


Endicott is an idiot, if you can't see that, god bless you.


Gonchar has come around, I think these games off will serve him well. He'll get a chance to watch from the box and gather his thoughts.

Never know, nights like these, from high above the ice, can be nights where a player finds his game.

Call me when Endicott turns into Primeau.
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Postby Scott on Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:02 am

randy wrote:i love how people rush to these judgment evaluations after a few games or even a season, The stuff said about shane endicott is the same stuff they said in detroit when primeau broke in. Same thing with joel otto in calgary


Randy, the difference between those three is that, Keith and Joel had grit and size.

I know..I know..I know.... Endo is listed at 6'4" 215

Let me say that is the softest 215 pounds I have ever seen...Kevin Hatcher at the softest 230# being the exception.

Endo brings nothing to this team. No grit or fire, scroing touch? He couldnt hit the ocean shooting off the dock.

If you are going to compare players, atleast compare apples and apples, or minor leaguers to minor leagues :wink:
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Postby Steve on Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:19 am

Whitney struggled in his first season with the baby Pens also, it shouldn't be a surprise that he struggled in his first year in the NHL.

He's going to be an excellent player in a year or two, don't lose patience with him, it'll pay off - Orpik as well...

let's go Pens!
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Postby jmh70 on Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:28 am

netwolf wrote:
jmh70 wrote:Whitney has already shown that he carries the puck more effectively than Gonchar. As soon as Whitney's shot improves, Gonchar will be officially useless.


That's pretty funny. One good game from Whitney after looking lost for months and all of the sudden he's a good shot away from making Gonchar useless.


Please. At no point has Whitney looked more lost than Gonchar. Both are equally woeful in their own end but Whitney has displayed better puck moving capabilities. The only improvement in Gonchar's game in the past two weeks is that he is not shooting 5 feet wide of the net anymore. At this point even Jackman is just as effective as Gonchar.

People really need to stop defending this $25m waste of space.
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Postby Henry Hank on Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:15 am

I'm looking forward to see Whitney next season. With some confidence, he's really going to start living up to his potential. If the Pens are much improved next season, and I believe they will be, Whitney's going to have a lot to do with it. Orpik too. The defense is pretty woeful right now, but I see those two guys really stepping it up next season.
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Postby Ben Klingston on Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:48 am

netwolf wrote:
jmh70 wrote:Whitney has already shown that he carries the puck more effectively than Gonchar. As soon as Whitney's shot improves, Gonchar will be officially useless.


That's pretty funny. One good game from Whitney after looking lost for months and all of the sudden he's a good shot away from making Gonchar useless.

Gonchar has had a largely forgettable season, but if you can't see that he's actually been playing well the last 2-3 weeks, I don't know what to tell you. In that span, he's played pretty much to his capabilities, minus the goal scoring. That part will come if he continues to shoot as much as as he has recently.


Thank god I'm not going crazy. I thought that I was just looking for something good to grasp on to. Gonchar has has a putrid season, compared to his past. But his last couple weeks of play have been showing signs of his previous performance levels. I'm on board with netwolf. I'll say it again... looking at Gonchar as the team's #1 problem is like cheering for the backup QB whenever the starting QB is throwing interceptions due to poor protection and receivers running the wrong routes:k The QB is at fault for making bad decisions, but his surrounding cast has a stake in the blame as well.

I'm not ready to say Gonchar is cured, and is not a FA bust. To this point, he has been. But even if he was playing at his previous level, this is a lost season. He is showing signs of life, and if he can get back to 80-90% of his previous play level for the rest of his contract, I can live with that.
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Postby Vanbiesbrouck on Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:08 am

randy wrote:i love how people rush to these judgment evaluations after a few games or even a season, The stuff said about shane endicott is the same stuff they said in detroit when primeau broke in. Same thing with joel otto in calgary


The others certainly already covered this thoroughly. My 2 cents anyway...
Primeau averaged a point every 4 games in his rookie season. Otto was just under a point a game. Endicott has 2 more points this season than I do.

Primeau and Otto were different cases breaking in. They showed talent but needed to get used to the league as big men playing at a new level. Endicott has no physical game to speak of. His lack of hands are inexcusible when he brings nothing else to the table. If you watch him live at games when you can follow players and not the puck, he looks confused on most plays and will avoid confrontation so as no to get hit or beat on a play. His clearing attempts are pathetic, even for Pens standards. He did a spectacular job changing the emotion to the Pens side against the Flyers by getting his head beat in during a fight at the 20:00 mark of the 3rd period.

I could go on, but we should stick to talking about Whitney here, like NIN intended the thread to be. Couldn't help but respond to a comment like that about the slug.
Last edited by Vanbiesbrouck on Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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yep

Postby FuturePens on Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:09 am

[

You just compared Primeau to Endicott???


Endicott is an idiot, if you can't see that, god bless you.


Call me when Endicott turns into Primeau.[/quote]

I agree with you 100%, Endicott is simply stupid and a bad player. Ryan deserves all the credit he can get in today's game, he had 7 blocked shots and playe a heck of a game. He can still improve on hitting the net on slapshots, but it was a great overall performance.
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Postby topshelf on Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:23 am

Also in the category of Whitney's play last night was Konstantin Koltsov. He play one helluva game. He was so defensively sound, and generated some offensive rushes. He may have hands of stone, but if he continues to play the way he has been, he deserves to stay in the NHL.
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Postby netwolf on Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:33 am

Ben Klingston wrote:Thank god I'm not going crazy.


Well, if you are agreeing with me, you might very well be. :wink:

Gonchar is on pace for about 50 points last time I looked. That is below the 60-70 everyone pretty much thought he'd hit, but hardly abysmal. He struggled early (understatement there!) and has slowly begun to turn it around lately. As I mentioned earlier, the goal scoring still isn't even close to what he should be able to do, but he is carrying the puck more than I remember him even doing and is beginning to do a good job in that regard.

Gonchar had an extremely bad start (along with the rest of the team) and makes the most money, so people got on him. Now he's playing better, but the most vocal fans can't seem to see that. I'm not sure if they just got in the habit of booing him, if they can't see hwo much better he's playing, if their jealous of the money, if it's becuase he's an ex-Cap, or some crazy amalgamation of all of those things.

All I know is he has been generating offense more consistently over the past month than anyone else on this team not named Sidney Crosby.
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Postby BJL on Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:43 am

Overreaction? Maybe... but the bottom line is we saw Ryan Whitney's real game last night. That looked like the guy who was clearly the ELITE d-man in the AHL at the beginning of the season. He's a rookie up here folks, but that's why they're letting him stay here and get some of that learning curve behind him now rather than later.
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Postby fourtKNOX on Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:44 am

Ben Klingston wrote:
Thank god I'm not going crazy. I thought that I was just looking for something good to grasp on to. Gonchar has has a putrid season, compared to his past. But his last couple weeks of play have been showing signs of his previous performance levels. I'm on board with netwolf. I'll say it again... looking at Gonchar as the team's #1 problem is like cheering for the backup QB whenever the starting QB is throwing interceptions due to poor protection and receivers running the wrong routes:k The QB is at fault for making bad decisions, but his surrounding cast has a stake in the blame as well.

I'm not ready to say Gonchar is cured, and is not a FA bust. To this point, he has been. But even if he was playing at his previous level, this is a lost season. He is showing signs of life, and if he can get back to 80-90% of his previous play level for the rest of his contract, I can live with that.



couldnt have said it better then netwolf and yourself... again gonchar has been a big disappointment yatayata but who knows what was going through that mind of his with that team in the early months... whatever it was he seems to have gotten under control... he HAS played rather well in the last few weeks, and that is a great sign... because he is not givign up... he is still working on his game...

agreed with you ben that he may not get back to his previous level... i think the new nhl actualy hurt him a lot... he coudl clutch and grab in the old nhl to cover for his lack of d play... that is why he still takes those penalties...

if he works on that for the rest of the year and the off season... positioning... and such... i think we will have an established d men for the rest of his contract!
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Postby Pitts on Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:25 pm

For some reason, and this is strictly personal opinion, I really think management wants Gonchar here when Malkin arrives. I'm not even sure they would shop him unless another team approaches them with a really good offer. Next season, "WHEN" Malkin arrives, they will have Gonchar here to work with and mentor him. I also think they may add a Russian forward to the mix. I have not been disappointed with Gonchar lately and was really dismayed when fans cheered that he was scratched last Wednesday at the arena. Gonchar's problem is the same as Crosby's...he needs wingers who know what to do. And, this team desperately lacks that.
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Postby netwolf on Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:31 pm

Pitts wrote:I have not been disappointed with Gonchar lately and was really dismayed when fans cheered that he was scratched last Wednesday at the arena. Gonchar's problem is the same as Crosby's...he needs wingers who know what to do. And, this team desperately lacks that.


I found it ironic that the crowd cheered his absence and then the team went on to record 5 more shots that night than Gonchar did singlehandedly in his last home game. The Pens musters 17 shots as a team against Boston. The Saturday prior, Gonchar launched 12 on DiPietro all by himself.
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in Peter Pan...

Postby penny lane on Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:15 pm

If I remember "we" all had to clap for Tinkerbell to live again.
Maybe that is what happen with Ryan Whitney. :lol: Ryan Whitney
was skating like I remember when he first joined the pens.
One game or not that was a Rob Blake performance.
Hey Tink, more masculine nickname, please keep it going for the pens.

I really am done with the reclamation project of Sergei Gonchar; whatever
and however they want to play him, good.
I heard bob grove say Segrei wants to be healthy and play against his former team, groovy. Hope that motivates him to highest level.

Mr. Tink Whitney, please play like last night & on to the Beanpot tournament for all you bostonians.
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Postby Ginger on Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:45 pm

netwolf said:
Gonchar is on pace for about 50 points last time I looked. That is below the 60-70 everyone pretty much thought he'd hit, but hardly abysmal. He struggled early (understatement there!) and has slowly begun to turn it around lately. As I mentioned earlier, the goal scoring still isn't even close to what he should be able to do, but he is carrying the puck more than I remember him even doing and is beginning to do a good job in that regard.

Gonchar had an extremely bad start (along with the rest of the team) and makes the most money, so people got on him. Now he's playing better, but the most vocal fans can't seem to see that. I'm not sure if they just got in the habit of booing him, if they can't see hwo much better he's playing, if their jealous of the money, if it's becuase he's an ex-Cap, or some crazy amalgamation of all of those things.

All I know is he has been generating offense more consistently over the past month than anyone else on this team not named Sidney Crosby.

&

I found it ironic that the crowd cheered his absence and then the team went on to record 5 more shots that night than Gonchar did singlehandedly in his last home game. The Pens mustered 17 shots as a team against Boston. Gonchar launched 12 all by himself on DiPietro all by himself.


I just don't get the hoopla & it hasn't been missed by the various sports announcers either. They say things like, "Pittsburgh is disappointed with Gonchars performance & aren't willing to wait out his slow beginning." I read that as them saying we're impatient.

I think we got a big letdown this season & we needed someone to blame for that. The only one left to really blame is Gonchar. To hell with what he did do, let's focus on what he didn't. And that's live up to our expectations. Mario isn't around, Ziggy's gone, TiBo...& we gotta dump on someone right?

Maybe you're right; maybe it's that ex-Caps thing. Personally, I think our expectations were just too high. We went from a team eligible for the #1 pick in the draft, to one who was going to win the Cup. Yeah, a tad high I'd say. :)
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Postby NIN on Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:57 pm

Ginger wrote:Maybe you're right; maybe it's that ex-Caps thing. Personally, I think our expectations were just too high. We went from a team eligible for the #1 pick in the draft, to one who was going to win the Cup. Yeah, a tad high I'd say. :)


No. he deserved all of the bashing. He came into the season tottally unprepaired for the new rules as evident by being ranked 13th among 280 NHL defensemen in PIM and he doesnt even have 1 major.

Melichar has only 2 less even strength points in about 15 fewer games and with considerably less icetime.

Gonchar is as advertised in the offenseive zone on the power play. Even on a bad day he is one of the best pointmen in the NHL and that has alot to do with his high salary. At even strength he has not picked up the team any and in fact has been a major liability. He has to get to the point were he isnt hurting the team at ES and maybe even joining a rush now and then like Whit did last night.

He is perhaps more to blame than most players but he hasnt been as bad on the power play as some fans have suggested.
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Postby jmh70 on Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:29 pm

netwolf wrote:I found it ironic that the crowd cheered his absence and then the team went on to record 5 more shots that night than Gonchar did singlehandedly in his last home game. The Pens musters 17 shots as a team against Boston. The Saturday prior, Gonchar launched 12 on DiPietro all by himself.


More overstatement of Gonchar's influence. The Pens have been blown out more times with him in the lineup than without him (I am not blaming him for this, of course, but it is a fact).

And I hope you are not suggesting that Gonchar single-handedly powers the Pens' offense, because that is a truly ridiculous claim.
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Postby NIN on Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:35 pm

ziggystardust wrote:If Gonchar was the greatest point man in NHL history he wouldn't be worth his salary. He would be the worst positional defenseman on most D1 college hockey teams.


Like it or not thats what big offensive numbers get you. Until GMs start to value good defensive play as much as they do offesnive play the big contracts will always go to the later. Gonchar has been among the elite offensive defensmen for years and if the Pens didnt pay him 25 million 4 or 5 other teams would have.

Goals put buts in seats and I doubt signing another Melichar would have created a season ticket buzz like Gonchar did. Thats life.
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