Marc Andre Fleury

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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby Rocco on Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:35 pm

Was anyone blaming Meloche during the regular season when MAF was tearing it up? Guess there always has to be an excuse.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby meow on Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:54 pm

Rocco wrote:Was anyone blaming Meloche during the regular season when MAF was tearing it up? Guess there always has to be an excuse.

MAF was tearing it up in spite of Meloche.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby Rocco on Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:22 pm

Man, it really sucks that MAF couldn't resist Meloche's telepathic suck waves that were being sent out all year for another month. That must be it. I guess Meloche wore down MAF's mental resistance.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby dman66 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:44 pm

Rocco wrote:Man, it really sucks that MAF couldn't resist Meloche's telepathic suck waves that were being sent out all year for another month. That must be it. I guess Meloche wore down MAF's mental resistance.


I've advocated getting rid of Meloche for a couple years now. In no way am I saying Fleury is blameless, but he has had the same goalie coach since coming into the league, despite 3 different head coaches. When Fleury is having issues, it's usually the same issues that he has had his entire career. Maybe they will always be there, regardless of the coach. Or maybe a new coach can assist Fleury in reaching the potential he has flashed throughout his career. To me, it's easier to get rid of Meloche then it is to get rid of Fleury.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby brwi on Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:16 pm

Lindback from the Preds is going to be moved in the off-season and he's the kind of guy that maybe could push MAF some without costing a fortune to acquire.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby Pens15 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:54 pm

I really can't fathom how getting a different goalie coach would change anything. Meloche is a professional goalie coach, so he has to know what he's doing. It's on Fleury to put things into practice.

Take Fleury's horrid puck-handling. That's not because of poor instruction. It's because Fleury lacks composure. How is a coach supposed to fix that?

To me it's very simple, Fleury is a very talented headcase, and always will be. Can you win with him, yeah. But can you ever fully trust him? I think not.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby dman66 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:34 pm

I really can't fathom how getting a different goalie coach would change anything.


You have never been in a job or a situation where someone new has come aboard and had a new perspective on something that has helped you or others achieve a goal that you likely wouldn't have achieved with the other person? It happens all the time in all walks of life.

Meloche is a professional goalie coach, so he has to know what he's doing.


They are all professional coaches, so why firing any of them? Meloche has only been a goalie coach with the Pens in his career. During his time, he got a goaltender that has exceptionally athletic ability, yet still has troubles he has had since he got here on day one. Fleury is not blameless here. Meloche may not be a problem at all, but I would rather see someone else see if they can get Fleury to reach his potential, because Meloche has had since 2003 to get him there and he has not done the job.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby columbia on Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:36 pm

I understand the impulse to throw Meloche overboard, but hiring a psychologist might be more effective.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby tfrizz on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:34 pm

duke66 wrote:
dman66 wrote:I do wish they would get rid of Meloche. A different voice could help Fleury hit his potential. Couple that with a back up that will be able to play 25-30 as well as push him, and I think you would see the best of Fleury yet.



:thumb: totally agree.

:thumb:
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby tfrizz on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:35 pm

Pens15 wrote:I think blaming the goalie coach is the best one I've heard since the terrible PP was all Yeo's fault.


Yup. A competent goalie coach makes no difference whatsoever... just ask Mike Smith. The guy goes from unwanted (unclaimed on re-entry waivers last season!) to potential (just missed out) Vezina candidate under the coaching of Sean Burke.

In fact, in Burke's 3 seasons as a goalie coach he's had Bryzgalov put up the two best years of his career and has Mike Smith playing like a world class goaltender.
Last edited by tfrizz on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby tfrizz on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:37 pm

dman66 wrote:
Rocco wrote:Man, it really sucks that MAF couldn't resist Meloche's telepathic suck waves that were being sent out all year for another month. That must be it. I guess Meloche wore down MAF's mental resistance.


I've advocated getting rid of Meloche for a couple years now. In no way am I saying Fleury is blameless, but he has had the same goalie coach since coming into the league, despite 3 different head coaches. When Fleury is having issues, it's usually the same issues that he has had his entire career. Maybe they will always be there, regardless of the coach. Or maybe a new coach can assist Fleury in reaching the potential he has flashed throughout his career. To me, it's easier to get rid of Meloche then it is to get rid of Fleury.


Actually, not entirely true. Meloche was there in 2003-04 when he first came in, but after that Fleury was coachless until he got hurt in the 2007-08 season.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby tfrizz on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:37 pm

brwi wrote:Lindback from the Preds is going to be moved in the off-season and he's the kind of guy that maybe could push MAF some without costing a fortune to acquire.


Lindback would be an incredible back-up for the Pens, but I fear the asking price may be too high - even with Shero's former employee discount.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby steelhammer on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:48 pm

tfrizz wrote:
dman66 wrote:
Rocco wrote:Man, it really sucks that MAF couldn't resist Meloche's telepathic suck waves that were being sent out all year for another month. That must be it. I guess Meloche wore down MAF's mental resistance.


I've advocated getting rid of Meloche for a couple years now. In no way am I saying Fleury is blameless, but he has had the same goalie coach since coming into the league, despite 3 different head coaches. When Fleury is having issues, it's usually the same issues that he has had his entire career. Maybe they will always be there, regardless of the coach. Or maybe a new coach can assist Fleury in reaching the potential he has flashed throughout his career. To me, it's easier to get rid of Meloche then it is to get rid of Fleury.


Actually, not entirely true. Meloche was there in 2003-04 when he first came in, but after that Fleury was coachless until he got hurt in the 2007-08 season.


Shane Clifford was his coach for a season as well. He has developed a number of quality goaltenders: http://www.shanecliffordgoalieschool.com/students/index.html. Now if only he had a membership to the Penguins organization's country club...
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby tfrizz on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:51 pm

steelhammer wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
dman66 wrote:
Rocco wrote:Man, it really sucks that MAF couldn't resist Meloche's telepathic suck waves that were being sent out all year for another month. That must be it. I guess Meloche wore down MAF's mental resistance.


I've advocated getting rid of Meloche for a couple years now. In no way am I saying Fleury is blameless, but he has had the same goalie coach since coming into the league, despite 3 different head coaches. When Fleury is having issues, it's usually the same issues that he has had his entire career. Maybe they will always be there, regardless of the coach. Or maybe a new coach can assist Fleury in reaching the potential he has flashed throughout his career. To me, it's easier to get rid of Meloche then it is to get rid of Fleury.


Actually, not entirely true. Meloche was there in 2003-04 when he first came in, but after that Fleury was coachless until he got hurt in the 2007-08 season.


Shane Clifford was his coach for a season as well. He has developed a number of quality goaltenders: http://www.shanecliffordgoalieschool.com/students/index.html. Now if only he had a membership to the Penguins organization's country club...


Forgot about Clifford :face: It's not exactly an all-star cast of goaltenders, but plenty of serviceable ones. I don't doubt he would've been an improvement over Meloche.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby steelhammer on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:04 pm

tfrizz wrote:
steelhammer wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
dman66 wrote:
Rocco wrote:Man, it really sucks that MAF couldn't resist Meloche's telepathic suck waves that were being sent out all year for another month. That must be it. I guess Meloche wore down MAF's mental resistance.


I've advocated getting rid of Meloche for a couple years now. In no way am I saying Fleury is blameless, but he has had the same goalie coach since coming into the league, despite 3 different head coaches. When Fleury is having issues, it's usually the same issues that he has had his entire career. Maybe they will always be there, regardless of the coach. Or maybe a new coach can assist Fleury in reaching the potential he has flashed throughout his career. To me, it's easier to get rid of Meloche then it is to get rid of Fleury.


Actually, not entirely true. Meloche was there in 2003-04 when he first came in, but after that Fleury was coachless until he got hurt in the 2007-08 season.


Shane Clifford was his coach for a season as well. He has developed a number of quality goaltenders: http://www.shanecliffordgoalieschool.com/students/index.html. Now if only he had a membership to the Penguins organization's country club...


Forgot about Clifford :face: It's not exactly an all-star cast of goaltenders, but plenty of serviceable ones. I don't doubt he would've been an improvement over Meloche.


I'd say developing Pittsburgh-born goaltenders into the best OHL (Gibson) and NCAA (Milner) goalies this past season is a pretty good accomplishment.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby tfrizz on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:06 pm

steelhammer wrote:I'd say developing Pittsburgh-born goaltenders into the best OHL (Gibson) and NCAA (Milner) goalies this past season is a pretty good accomplishment.


Definitely, I just look at it more from an NHL perspective. He's helped develop a lot of very good young goaltenders who could turn out to be great NHLers, it's just too difficult to predict that with confidence though.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby darkstar57 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:47 am

I am perfectly fine with fleury, he has his brain farts at time and sometimes makes me pull my hair out. That being said, when he is on, he is the best goalie in the league (game 5 third period being an example)

The defense hung him out to dry toward the tail end of the season and in the playoffs, that is tough for any goalie, he slowly was losing confidence and in the playoffs it was just shattered. Need to see where he is at next season if he is able to put this behind him. The last time fluery played horribly two years to start the season he responded with phenomenal play and was the reason we made the playoffs without sid and geno.

We need to insulate him better and get better on D and fleury will be fine.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby shmenguin on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:06 am

columbia wrote:I understand the impulse to throw Meloche overboard, but hiring a psychologist might be more effective.


a psychologist will just tell him to accept that he will have bad games, and not to worry about it. professional achievement is low on the list of priorities.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby Bathgate on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:37 pm

If Fleury’s problem is that he loses confidence and falls apart when the team defense “hangs him out to dry”, then he needs to play for a defense-first team. Since he’s untradeable now with his salary, the Pens may have to alter their style like the Caps did. If they do want to go that direction, trading Staal would be a bad move.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby The Snapshot on Tue May 01, 2012 12:12 pm

Bathgate wrote:If Fleury’s problem is that he loses confidence and falls apart when the team defense “hangs him out to dry”, then he needs to play for a defense-first team. Since he’s untradeable now with his salary, the Pens may have to alter their style like the Caps did. If they do want to go that direction, trading Staal would be a bad move.


Not saying that you truly advocate the above statement, but Fleury is poorly constructed for a defense-first system. We saw what he did when MT was fired, and his inconsistency would always be an issue with a team that does not score many goals because soft goals kill these kinds of systems.

Fleury has consistently given up more bad goals than any other winning goalie in the league ever since he came into it. There is a reason he has been referred to as the modern-day Grant Fuhr - since it has always been about "making the key save at the key time" - not being perfect. These goalies still alive in the Playoffs (except for Bryzgalov) have not been surrendering weak goals every night. There is a reason that Fleury has so few shutouts, and it before anyone points at the Pens' D I would ask them to review the goals in his 1 goal against performances. They are almost always soft.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby Bathgate on Tue May 01, 2012 1:20 pm

Snapshot, I've read your posts about Fleury and fully agree with them. My question to you is what would you do to address the Fleury issue if you were Ray Shero? I will go so far as to suggest that Fleury's recent playoff failures project to little chance of winning future playoff series, or at least several in a row. That reality profoundly affects the organization in different ways, all negative, including a declining ability to keep or attract top free agents who want a great chance to win a Cup.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby tfrizz on Tue May 01, 2012 2:22 pm

Bathgate wrote:Snapshot, I've read your posts about Fleury and fully agree with them. My question to you is what would you do to address the Fleury issue if you were Ray Shero? I will go so far as to suggest that Fleury's recent playoff failures project to little chance of winning future playoff series, or at least several in a row. That reality profoundly affects the organization in different ways, all negative, including a declining ability to keep or attract top free agents who want a great chance to win a Cup.


The first thing I'd do is send Meloche back to the scouting staff (since it's doubtful they let him go completely) and bring in a new goalie coach. In the 4 years he's coached Fleury, there hasn't been nearly enough improvement to keep him in that position.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby The Snapshot on Wed May 02, 2012 11:52 am

Bathgate wrote:Snapshot, I've read your posts about Fleury and fully agree with them. My question to you is what would you do to address the Fleury issue if you were Ray Shero? I will go so far as to suggest that Fleury's recent playoff failures project to little chance of winning future playoff series, or at least several in a row. That reality profoundly affects the organization in different ways, all negative, including a declining ability to keep or attract top free agents who want a great chance to win a Cup.


I think he is the biggest organizational issue bar none - bigger than re-signing or trading Jordan Staal, bigger than trying to jettison Michalek's deal.....because he is bar none the biggest problem to be addressed if we want to win more cups.

I am not advocating any huge changes in the team on D or upfront, and I am also not saying we need to trade Fleury - but we have to do something, because he has in my eyes almost single-handedly burned two seasons of Crosby/Malkin with horrendous personal performances in the Playoffs.

To me he is very much at a crossroad in his career. He is probably at the same point now that Luongo was in with Vancouver at the start of this season. He is on the verge of falling off a cliff if he cannot become a more consistent puckstopper. That means ALL the saves, and a save % at least 10-15% above his typical season's average of late. He simply has to improve his concentration and become a better technical goaltender if he wants to stay.

Is that a goaltending coach? I would guess so, but I think he needs to be made aware that this coming season is a real make or break for his career in Pittsburgh. The soft goals need to stop. The shutouts need to come.

He also needs a backup to push him either up or out.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby slappybrown on Wed May 02, 2012 12:07 pm

I think this is fair.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed May 02, 2012 1:07 pm

Good points on Fleury. While the total team effort has been miserable, especially in this year's playoffs, Fleury has been (let's face it) an utter disaster over the last two playoff seasons. This is going to be a telling year regarding his future in Pittsburgh and the league (although he will never have trouble finding work).
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