Marc Andre Fleury

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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby Steve on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:27 pm

They had a closeup of MAF before the game started. He looked scared to me. I'm just sitting on the couch watching the game, so maybe I'm way off about that.

One of the announcers did mention though, that he didn't look sharp in warmups.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby offsides on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:31 pm

Steve wrote:They had a closeup of MAF before the game started. He looked scared to me. I'm just sitting on the couch watching the game, so maybe I'm way off about that.

One of the announcers did mention though, that he didn't look sharp in warmups.


He looked sharp in one game out of six. Though I will say today was a total team effort.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby 71Aj66ax87 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:58 pm

offsides wrote:
Steve wrote:They had a closeup of MAF before the game started. He looked scared to me. I'm just sitting on the couch watching the game, so maybe I'm way off about that.

One of the announcers did mention though, that he didn't look sharp in warmups.


He looked sharp in one game out of six. Though I will say today was a total team effort.


I think you mean today was a total lack of team effort.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby slappybrown on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:00 pm

I often find myself defending MAF this time of year, simply because of the constant onslaught of people blaming the goalie for every.single.goal, who watch a handful of games a year before the playoffs. But he was bad this series, as were his teammates. There's not much to say other than to admit this.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:06 pm

slappybrown wrote:I often find myself defending MAF this time of year, simply because of the constant onslaught of people blaming the goalie for every.single.goal, who watch a handful of games a year before the playoffs. But he was bad this series, as were his teammates. There's not much to say other than to admit this.


How many shots did the Flyers block today? 30+? The Pens need to get back into that playoff mode, we haven't seen it in a couple years now.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby offsides on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:09 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
slappybrown wrote:I often find myself defending MAF this time of year, simply because of the constant onslaught of people blaming the goalie for every.single.goal, who watch a handful of games a year before the playoffs. But he was bad this series, as were his teammates. There's not much to say other than to admit this.


How many shots did the Flyers block today? 30+? The Pens need to get back into that playoff mode, we haven't seen it in a couple years now.


And unless changes are made, may not see again for a while.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby burghsportsguys on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:13 pm

Today was a flashback to that Pens/Canadiens series... early goal, soft goal, momentum-killing goal, and then on offense they were way too cute. But this being a Fleury thread, I feel pretty comfortable laying a large chunk on him this series. Bryz was horrid, but Fleury one-upped him in that department.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:33 pm

burghsportsguys wrote:Today was a flashback to that Pens/Canadiens series... early goal, soft goal, momentum-killing goal, and then on offense they were way too cute. But this being a Fleury thread, I feel pretty comfortable laying a large chunk on him this series. Bryz was horrid, but Fleury one-upped him in that department.


Too cute? Its not for a lack of shooting the puck, the Flyers clamped down on D. Its a lot easier to do that when you have a 3-0 lead.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby burghsportsguys on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:48 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
burghsportsguys wrote:Today was a flashback to that Pens/Canadiens series... early goal, soft goal, momentum-killing goal, and then on offense they were way too cute. But this being a Fleury thread, I feel pretty comfortable laying a large chunk on him this series. Bryz was horrid, but Fleury one-upped him in that department.


Too cute? Its not for a lack of shooting the puck, the Flyers clamped down on D. Its a lot easier to do that when you have a 3-0 lead.


After the first period, I would have bet that they only had 5 shots. They had 9, apparently, but I can't think of one where Bryz was tested. You thought they generated good chances early on? I can remember a couple of plays, one with Dupuis and Crosby breaking in where Dupe shoots 99% of the time, but instead he tried to force a pass. There were sequences where we controlled the puck for 30 seconds in their zone and got nothing on net. Some of our best zone time was in the first period, but we weren't testing Bryz.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby littlemoonboot on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:56 pm

Doesn't help that Flower didn't get much rest all year...we worried that he was getting overworked. He's not faultless but it's not like he got a lot of help, either, from BJ or the team come springtime.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby KG on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:10 pm

MAF like the rest of the team was not good enough...Far from it unfortunately....

His soft goals against are always at the worst time!

He needs to be better. I think he will. I do think that he needs a legit back up who can push him. Apparently the players at today's country club need to be pushed. It's time for someone to push them!
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby slappybrown on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:11 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
slappybrown wrote:I often find myself defending MAF this time of year, simply because of the constant onslaught of people blaming the goalie for every.single.goal, who watch a handful of games a year before the playoffs. But he was bad this series, as were his teammates. There's not much to say other than to admit this.


How many shots did the Flyers block today? 30+? The Pens need to get back into that playoff mode, we haven't seen it in a couple years now.

For sure, but I don't think we have those kind of guys on our blueline right now, frankly. Nor our wings.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby Pens15 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:30 pm

He's always been schizo and he always will. He had that rep before he even set foot in the NHL.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby Rocco on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:34 pm

MAF gave up a goal on the first shot today. Good way to flatten your teammates.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby lemieuxReturns on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:37 pm

I was his biggest fan during the past couple years. I was upset that Canada didn't give him a shot in the Olympics when Marty was pulled. Having said that, his biggest pro for the club is his attitude. Always upbeat, quick to recover from a bad game. His biggest CON is the fact he can have absolutely horrible games giving up some very very questionable goals.

It always seemed like the pens were a team built offensively to be able to deal with a soft goal or two a game with the talent they had. Add in a mix of defensemen that can block shots and keep teams to a lower than average amount of shots per game and you had a formula to win a good amount of games.

As much as our defense and MAF were bad, our PK was that much worse. The PK was the difference in the series without a doubt.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby Rocco on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:46 pm

Subjectively, it feels like MAF's best games are where is under siege and facing a number of shots. He appears to wander mentally in games where he isn't being tested for long stretches. He also tends to give up a completely horrendous goal at the worst possible moment. You could probably level those criticisms at nearly every goalie, but it's noticeable with MAF since they always seem to surface in the playoffs. There are obviously worse flaws to have in a goalie but these are maddening ones.

Obviously, MAF is a great goalie for the regular season. There's empirical evidence you can win a Cup with him. And the Pens can't look to trade him- there's no one close to being as good as him on the market, and they don't have a long-term solution close to being ready. But at this point I don't think MAF's mental problems are fixable. He's come a long way physically. He started out with amazing reflexes and horrible form and has since developed good form (he ain't on Brodeur's level as a pure butterfly goalie, but that's an impossible standard). But the same problems have plagued him the entire time. Maybe the Pens just have to hope that lightning can strike twice and he can slap together 2 more good months at the end of the year again?
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby Fast B on Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:03 pm

Rocco wrote:Subjectively, it feels like MAF's best games are where is under siege and facing a number of shots. He appears to wander mentally in games where he isn't being tested for long stretches. He also tends to give up a completely horrendous goal at the worst possible moment. You could probably level those criticisms at nearly every goalie, but it's noticeable with MAF since they always seem to surface in the playoffs. There are obviously worse flaws to have in a goalie but these are maddening ones.

Obviously, MAF is a great goalie for the regular season. There's empirical evidence you can win a Cup with him. And the Pens can't look to trade him- there's no one close to being as good as him on the market, and they don't have a long-term solution close to being ready. But at this point I don't think MAF's mental problems are fixable. He's come a long way physically. He started out with amazing reflexes and horrible form and has since developed good form (he ain't on Brodeur's level as a pure butterfly goalie, but that's an impossible standard). But the same problems have plagued him the entire time. Maybe the Pens just have to hope that lightning can strike twice and he can slap together 2 more good months at the end of the year again?


I don't know if I agree with that. It sounds an awful lot like Draftnik and others' pronouncement that (paraphrasing) he was never a winner in juniors so he'd never be a winner in the NHL.

I do think he needs a new coach, and possibly a good long chat with a sports psychologist or something. Dude has miles of talent and some big focus issues to match.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby Southern Fan on Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:04 pm

His stick handling behind the net is a killer, especially in the playoffs where we often end up not clearing the zone and take a penalty, get scored on or spend 45 seconds of the shift regaining control
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby slappybrown on Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:05 pm

Michalek has mastered the art of not getting it out when it could easily have been out. Its infuriating.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby Rocco on Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:17 pm

Fast B wrote:
Rocco wrote:Subjectively, it feels like MAF's best games are where is under siege and facing a number of shots. He appears to wander mentally in games where he isn't being tested for long stretches. He also tends to give up a completely horrendous goal at the worst possible moment. You could probably level those criticisms at nearly every goalie, but it's noticeable with MAF since they always seem to surface in the playoffs. There are obviously worse flaws to have in a goalie but these are maddening ones.

Obviously, MAF is a great goalie for the regular season. There's empirical evidence you can win a Cup with him. And the Pens can't look to trade him- there's no one close to being as good as him on the market, and they don't have a long-term solution close to being ready. But at this point I don't think MAF's mental problems are fixable. He's come a long way physically. He started out with amazing reflexes and horrible form and has since developed good form (he ain't on Brodeur's level as a pure butterfly goalie, but that's an impossible standard). But the same problems have plagued him the entire time. Maybe the Pens just have to hope that lightning can strike twice and he can slap together 2 more good months at the end of the year again?


I don't know if I agree with that. It sounds an awful lot like Draftnik and others' pronouncement that (paraphrasing) he was never a winner in juniors so he'd never be a winner in the NHL.

I do think he needs a new coach, and possibly a good long chat with a sports psychologist or something. Dude has miles of talent and some big focus issues to match.


How many times do crazy fluke things have to happen before they are no longer crazy fluke things but instead are the new normal? As I said, you can win with MAF. That's been shown. 4 of the 6 times the Pens have reached the playoffs, his playoff numbers have been worse than they were in the regular season. I don't know if that's normal, but given how scoring usually goes down in the playoffs I can't think that happens to most goalies who people consider elite. The mental issues have plagued him his entire career going back to juniors and haven't gone away.

While he's not old, he's not a young player anymore (turns 28 in November). If it hasn't happened yet, it may never happen. He's a great talent and if his career ended now you couldn't call him a bust, but you also can't help but think he could have accomplished more.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby malkinshair on Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:12 pm

Rocco wrote:MAF gave up a goal on the first shot today. Good way to flatten your teammates.

:roll:

Was that the uncontested shot that came off the stick of the most dangerous player in the series from just outside the dot...and had to hit the post to go in...meaning that the only way he could've saved it was to be grossly out of position? Yeah, he totally should've stopped that one.

He wasn't good tonight, but his teammates didn't need flattening...they were already flat when the puck was dropped.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby Rocco on Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:23 pm

malkinshair wrote:
Rocco wrote:MAF gave up a goal on the first shot today. Good way to flatten your teammates.

:roll:

Was that the uncontested shot that came off the stick of the most dangerous player in the series from just outside the dot...and had to hit the post to go in...meaning that the only way he could've saved it was to be grossly out of position? Yeah, he totally should've stopped that one.

He wasn't good tonight, but his teammates didn't need flattening...they were already flat when the puck was dropped.


I'm pretty sure goalies never want to be beaten short-side like that.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby DudeMan2766 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:24 pm

malkinshair wrote:
Rocco wrote:MAF gave up a goal on the first shot today. Good way to flatten your teammates.

:roll:

Was that the uncontested shot that came off the stick of the most dangerous player in the series from just outside the dot...and had to hit the post to go in...meaning that the only way he could've saved it was to be grossly out of position? Yeah, he totally should've stopped that one.

He wasn't good tonight, but his teammates didn't need flattening...they were already flat when the puck was dropped.


And theres the obligatory "Fleury was bad but so was everyone else post" You sound like Madden when BRoeth has a bad game. Yes we know. We've all acknowledged the rest of the team. But he let in 4 goals on 16 shots today. And a soul crushing 3rd goal that Bryz wouldnt even give up. He has his moments were he is all world, but he has more moments where he lets in goals no other NHL goalie would. Not to mention the ones he always knocks in himself. This has been going on since he was in juniors. He constantly screws up behind the net, he constantly lets in goals that hit him first, and he's had 2 good playoff runs. And even during those runs he displayed the same flaws he's had his entire career.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby malkinshair on Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:28 pm

Rocco wrote:
malkinshair wrote:
Rocco wrote:MAF gave up a goal on the first shot today. Good way to flatten your teammates.

:roll:

Was that the uncontested shot that came off the stick of the most dangerous player in the series from just outside the dot...and had to hit the post to go in...meaning that the only way he could've saved it was to be grossly out of position? Yeah, he totally should've stopped that one.

He wasn't good tonight, but his teammates didn't need flattening...they were already flat when the puck was dropped.


I'm pretty sure goalies never want to be beaten short-side like that.


I'm pretty sure goalies never want to be beaten. If he's in position, that goal goes in. The only way he stops it is if he's cheating to the short-side or, you know, out of position.
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Re: Marc Andre Fleury

Postby malkinshair on Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:48 pm

DudeMan2766 wrote:
malkinshair wrote:
Rocco wrote:MAF gave up a goal on the first shot today. Good way to flatten your teammates.

:roll:

Was that the uncontested shot that came off the stick of the most dangerous player in the series from just outside the dot...and had to hit the post to go in...meaning that the only way he could've saved it was to be grossly out of position? Yeah, he totally should've stopped that one.

He wasn't good tonight, but his teammates didn't need flattening...they were already flat when the puck was dropped.


And theres the obligatory "Fleury was bad but so was everyone else post" You sound like Madden when BRoeth has a bad game. Yes we know. We've all acknowledged the rest of the team. But he let in 4 goals on 16 shots today. And a soul crushing 3rd goal that Bryz wouldnt even give up. He has his moments were he is all world, but he has more moments where he lets in goals no other NHL goalie would. Not to mention the ones he always knocks in himself. This has been going on since he was in juniors. He constantly screws up behind the net, he constantly lets in goals that hit him first, and he's had 2 good playoff runs. And even during those runs he displayed the same flaws he's had his entire career.


It's not obligatory...it's voluntarily made to point out the truth. Fleury wasn't good, but neither were his teammates. Are you honestly disputing this? Which team's skaters had a better game this afternoon? Which D did a better job of pressuring the opposition? Which team insulated their struggling GT by getting back, getting sticks in lanes, and sacrificing their body to block shots? You're absolutely correct that Bryz wouldn't have let that 3rd goal in today because it wouldn't have made it through the D.

He's knocked 1 goal in himself in, like, 3 years...but feel free to keep exaggerating that point if you'd like.

He has flaws, no doubt, but he's not the only one. He gets singled out because he's the goaltender, but he's just 1 of 20 guys today that did nothing to help their team win.
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