How do Pens think fans swallow another 10% tix increase now?

[BurghersAndDogsSports]

What about all the money the owners lost when the team sucked? Maybe they're just trying to make up for lost time when they were pumping money into the team when they could have been pumping money into other investments..ya know.. ones that would have made them money? I'm not all up to date on what went on behind the scenes during that time frame and if/how much capital they actually lost, but potentially thats something to consider. And I don't blame them. Get it while its hot! I would say its a vocal minority that feel the way some on this board feel about ticket prices.

One last point: if it is such a vocal minority why were there so many cancels for the playoffs in a year we were cup contenders if not favorites that the pens had to open up more for sale?

That is all the evidence I need that I more right than wrong about how they are currently operating.

[moondart]

What about all the money the owners lost when the team sucked? Maybe they're just trying to make up for lost time when they were pumping money into the team when they could have been pumping money into other investments..ya know.. ones that would have made them money? I'm not all up to date on what went on behind the scenes during that time frame and if/how much capital they actually lost, but potentially thats something to consider. And I don't blame them. Get it while its hot! I would say its a vocal minority that feel the way some on this board feel about ticket prices.

Yea, making up for lost business 10 yrs ago is GREAT business to do now. So, Mcdonalds should raise the price on BIg Macs because 10 yrs ago they lost money with the "MCribs" experiment.

And your right...I'm sure its only a minority of STH who don't mind 40% increases...

I'm assuming that you were kidding...or you drink the Koolaide.

Is someone forcing you to buy tickets?

If there's something that I'm paying for that I don't think is worth it, I stop paying for it so I don't have to worry about it. There's no prize for being a martyr.

When did I say ANYTHING about being forced to buy tickets or being a martyr? You Koolaide drinkers still don't get it so I'll try one last time: THE PENS CAN CHARGE ANYTHING THEY WANT FOR TICKETS, BUT WHEN YOU STICK YOUR CUSTOMERS WITH 40% INCREASES AND GIVE LESS OF A PRODUCT (WHILE GETTING MORE STREAMS OF MONEY IN ADDITION TO THOSE TIX): YOU LOOK LIKE GREEDY AHOLES!!

This has nothing to do with what "I" or "you" can afford. Its not a matter of "fairness"...its a matter of good taste.

[sil]

What about all the money the owners lost when the team sucked? Maybe they're just trying to make up for lost time when they were pumping money into the team when they could have been pumping money into other investments..ya know.. ones that would have made them money? I'm not all up to date on what went on behind the scenes during that time frame and if/how much capital they actually lost, but potentially thats something to consider. And I don't blame them. Get it while its hot! I would say its a vocal minority that feel the way some on this board feel about ticket prices.

Yea, making up for lost business 10 yrs ago is GREAT business to do now. So, Mcdonalds should raise the price on BIg Macs because 10 yrs ago they lost money with the "MCribs" experiment.

And your right...I'm sure its only a minority of STH who don't mind 40% increases...

I'm assuming that you were kidding...or you drink the Koolaide.

Is someone forcing you to buy tickets?

If there's something that I'm paying for that I don't think is worth it, I stop paying for it so I don't have to worry about it. There's no prize for being a martyr.

When did I say ANYTHING about being forced to buy tickets or being a martyr? You Koolaide drinkers still don't get it so I'll try one last time: THE PENS CAN CHARGE ANYTHING THEY WANT FOR TICKETS, BUT WHEN YOU STICK YOUR CUSTOMERS WITH 40% INCREASES AND GIVE LESS OF A PRODUCT (WHILE GETTING MORE STREAMS OF MONEY IN ADDITION TO THOSE TIX): YOU LOOK LIKE GREEDY AHOLES!!

This has nothing to do with what "I" or "you" can afford. Its not a matter of "fairness"...its a matter of good taste.

But that's not how you started this rant. You didn't say, "hey these guys look like jerks, don't they!!!" you said, "how do they expect us to swallow (keep buying) more expensive tickets"? which indicated you would rather not pay...which is obviously your right.

[Rugbymuffin]

The one's who want to keep their tickets will swallow the price increase. Those who do not, will be replaced by waiting list holders.

Those who do not, MIGHT be replaced by waiting list holders

One of the most successful sports franchises in that last decade.

Take it from a Cardinals football fan, you guys are spoiled rotten with success.

There is no "might". Those tickets will be sold if someone how cannot handle a small amount of adversity wants to be rash, and emotional, and sell their tickets off. Good luck ever getting them back.

Now if you cannot afford season tickets after the price increase, that sucks, but such is life. I would like to buy a new fancy TV, but it ain't gonna happen.

[Rugbymuffin]

If u go to a lot of games I am guaranteeing you that at over 15 games they had 1,000 plus student....easy.
For those ofyounthat keep saying supply and demand: they raised prices to the point they had so many playoff cancels they offered us the chance to buy more. Why do you think wait list folks are gonna buy at those prices?

second I have been on record as saying in the past and got bashed but something isn't right. The prices were increased so high it's not reasonable, they are the only team to sell white out shirts, and they have cut back on everything you can think of.

It goes beyond the normal thinking, they are making less money than they thought they would with all these new arena deals. Plain and simple. Nobody in their right mind raises prices to the points they have.

No one is entitled to season tickets.

If the price is too high, then don't buy the tickets.

Plus you are debating two things at once:

1. No one is going to re-up on tickets because of a price increase, and early exits from the playoffs.

2. No one is going to re-up on tickets cause prices are too high.


Which point are you trying to make ? Prices are too high, or the team is not good enough.

Pricing being to high, well that does make sense if people cannot afford the prices.

As for the team sucking ? LOL, that is some skewed thinking. This organization has been very successful. Try convincing someone from Columbus that the fans here have some plight they have to deal with concerning the quality of the team.

[Rugbymuffin]

What about all the money the owners lost when the team sucked? Maybe they're just trying to make up for lost time when they were pumping money into the team when they could have been pumping money into other investments..ya know.. ones that would have made them money? I'm not all up to date on what went on behind the scenes during that time frame and if/how much capital they actually lost, but potentially thats something to consider. And I don't blame them. Get it while its hot! I would say its a vocal minority that feel the way some on this board feel about ticket prices.

Yea, making up for lost business 10 yrs ago is GREAT business to do now. So, Mcdonalds should raise the price on BIg Macs because 10 yrs ago they lost money with the "MCribs" experiment.

And your right...I'm sure its only a minority of STH who don't mind 40% increases...

I'm assuming that you were kidding...or you drink the Koolaide.

Is someone forcing you to buy tickets?

If there's something that I'm paying for that I don't think is worth it, I stop paying for it so I don't have to worry about it. There's no prize for being a martyr.

When did I say ANYTHING about being forced to buy tickets or being a martyr? You Koolaide drinkers still don't get it so I'll try one last time: THE PENS CAN CHARGE ANYTHING THEY WANT FOR TICKETS, BUT WHEN YOU STICK YOUR CUSTOMERS WITH 40% INCREASES AND GIVE LESS OF A PRODUCT (WHILE GETTING MORE STREAMS OF MONEY IN ADDITION TO THOSE TIX): YOU LOOK LIKE GREEDY AHOLES!!

This has nothing to do with what "I" or "you" can afford. Its not a matter of "fairness"...its a matter of good taste.

Fairness ? LOL. Life ain't fair, and not only is it not fair, it is pretty much rigged against you.

Less of a product ? My goodness. So, the price you pay is only worth it if there are Stanley Cups every year ?

Understand not affording to pay increases prices, but the rest just sounds like whining. Sorry.

[Rugbymuffin]

It just seems to me that the Pens are so concerned with being seen as the greatest they should actually try to be the greatest.

I don't think I have ever read any respresentative, or player on the Pens say this.

Are we taking the media's words, and putting them in the mouth of the organization again ?

It is a business, not a family. They are here to make money, and if you need a sobering reminder of that truth, then wait till the cow poop hits the fan when the CBA is negotiated. You think the notion that any of these organizations care about the fans over money is getting smashed into tiny bits now, wait till that CBA negotiation starts. Then you will get a real reminder that the NHL is a business, and money is all that matters.

The thought that any organization cares more about fans, and "family" then money is fantasy land.

[BurghersAndDogsSports]

If u go to a lot of games I am guaranteeing you that at over 15 games they had 1,000 plus student....easy.
For those ofyounthat keep saying supply and demand: they raised prices to the point they had so many playoff cancels they offered us the chance to buy more. Why do you think wait list folks are gonna buy at those prices?

second I have been on record as saying in the past and got bashed but something isn't right. The prices were increased so high it's not reasonable, they are the only team to sell white out shirts, and they have cut back on everything you can think of.

It goes beyond the normal thinking, they are making less money than they thought they would with all these new arena deals. Plain and simple. Nobody in their right mind raises prices to the points they have.

No one is entitled to season tickets.

If the price is too high, then don't buy the tickets.

Plus you are debating two things at once:

1. No one is going to re-up on tickets because of a price increase, and early exits from the playoffs.

2. No one is going to re-up on tickets cause prices are too high.


Which point are you trying to make ? Prices are too high, or the team is not good enough.

Pricing being to high, well that does make sense if people cannot afford the prices.

As for the team sucking ? LOL, that is some skewed thinking. This organization has been very successful. Try convincing someone from Columbus that the fans here have some plight they have to deal with concerning the quality of the team.

Ummm, I really don't get anything you wrote. Your two points I am trying to make include the same point and I have never said anything about the team sucking other than if they chase fans away they will not be able to afford to push to the salary the cap every year which is a valid point, not saying anything current.

Playoff cancels means that season ticket holders chose not to purchase their playoff tickets this year in droves, to a point the pens had to offer us the chance to purchase more to make up for it. The pens were cup favorites yet couldn't sell to enough to their core fans for the playoffs. Not sure I understand your post at all.

Again....everyone is missing the point. I am not saying anything against free will to purchase tickets. If they price me out and I can't buy them, fine so be it. I'll put 6000 or 7000 grand towards something else.

But they already priced fans out so they are resorting to student rush way too much and had way too many playoff cancels as evident when they needed to sell more. Why can't people understand that these are actual issues, added in with them doing things like charging for white out tees and something stinks in penguins land. Everyone keeps saying things like the wait list but that is no guarantee, not everyone can afford what they are asking. Go to another thread and see what people are writing about their number on the wait list and still getting tickets every year.

[BurghersAndDogsSports]

It just seems to me that the Pens are so concerned with being seen as the greatest they should actually try to be the greatest.

I don't think I have ever read any respresentative, or player on the Pens say this.

Are we taking the media's words, and putting them in the mouth of the organization again ?

It is a business, not a family. They are here to make money, and if you need a sobering reminder of that truth, then wait till the cow poop hits the fan when the CBA is negotiated. You think the notion that any of these organizations care about the fans over money is getting smashed into tiny bits now, wait till that CBA negotiation starts. Then you will get a real reminder that the NHL is a business, and money is all that matters.

The thought that any organization cares more about fans, and "family" then money is fantasy land.

Again missing my point. I could care less if they try to make money. All this crap they are pulling is driving fans away which in the long run can affect the team they put on the ice. A few dollars in the bank this year means a lot less in the future potentially.

And yes if you are a season ticket holder you constantly get letters from morehouse bragging about how great they are and how they are all for us the fans and how everything they do is for the fans. Complete bull.

[czwalga]

^ This guy knows how to maximize the penguins organization's revenue.... pretty amazing since he has no firm numbers or really any facts. Interesting the best way for the pens to make money according to him fits in with his view of his pocket book and how good the team is.

[BurghersAndDogsSports]

^ This guy knows how to maximize the penguins organization's revenue.... pretty amazing since he has no firm numbers or really any facts. Interesting the best way for the pens to make money according to him fits in with his view of his pocket book and how good the team is.

Ok, so you don't think it's a problem that the season ticket holders cancelled their playoff tickets in a year when the pens were cup favorites? Or that they seem to need to save money at every corner? Or that people who are in the 300 or 400 or 500 part of the wait list get tickets when only 100 are offered because so many on the wait list pass up the chance? Or that games in October or November at student rush filled?

In retrospect my pocket book is only hit slightly all things considered. And it's laughable you state that about the team being good since if they do go into the tank I am sure other fans wouldn't care at all and their sales wouldn't follow suit.

[It'sagreatdayforhockey!]

This has nothing to do with what "I" or "you" can afford. Its not a matter of "fairness"...its a matter of good taste.

I personally believe that it's a matter of being less filling.

[czwalga]

^ This guy knows how to maximize the penguins organization's revenue.... pretty amazing since he has no firm numbers or really any facts. Interesting the best way for the pens to make money according to him fits in with his view of his pocket book and how good the team is.

Ok, so you don't think it's a problem that the season ticket holders cancelled their playoff tickets in a year when the pens were cup favorites? Or that they seem to need to save money at every corner? Or that people who are in the 300 or 400 or 500 part of the wait list get tickets when only 100 are offered because so many on the wait list pass up the chance? Or that games in October or November at student rush filled?

In retrospect my pocket book is only hit slightly all things considered. And it's laughable you state that about the team being good since if they do go into the tank I am sure other fans wouldn't care at all and their sales wouldn't follow suit.

I dont know.... maybe you should ask the organization? They are the ones with the numbers...............


I used to go to about 10 games a year... even when they were garbage. I go to one or two now, no playoff games aside from game 7 in detroit. It's not worth the money to me and I could easily afford them if I want. But i'm not ******** and crying about it.... the organization clearly knows how to accumulate the most amount of $.


Let me ask you something....... do you think the Pens organization is that short sighted, that they want to lose money on purpose?

[The Snapshot]

It is perfectly understandable that many Waitlist folks would say no years later when they get a chance. I don't think the prices have as much to do with that as the fact that it was a relatively cheap bet to place when the team was very hot. Those at the top of the list only put down a few hundred dollars years ago. Situations change, kids, jobs, etc.

So is it that surprising that they would not accept when their number was called?

I will say though that the secondary market has dropped off notably in the last few seasons. When I come in for games, I am somewhat surprised as well by how many of the seats around me that I know are owned locally are occupied by secondary buyers. I guess there are changes in circumstances for these folks as well, but they used to be at every game and I was the one that was the oddball by only making the weekend games.

I would guess that their love of the Pens hasn't changed, but their finances around thier decision to attend or not has to at least be influenced by paying for the tix. The 40% increase though should by logic only mean they resell about 25% of the games with markup factored in to stay even - but I am telling you that they are NOT there more than they are there in attendance during those 15 or so games I made this year.

Could be that they sell the weekend games due to demand and markup, but I would also assume that they would be easier and more desireable games to hold on to as well.

I guess my point is, I don't have a clue why but I can see the signs that something is impacting both secondary demand and the dedication of previously committed season ticket holders. At least in my section, nobody I know is going to all of the games themselves.

It has been pointed out in the past that the ideal price would be the one that still has all seats sold with zero secondary market. That puts all of the revenue into the Pens coffers. The fact that people need to re-sell their tickets is offset by the fact that someone is willing to pay a premium to get the tix on a game basis - and this indicates that the prices are still lower than the mythical ideal figure. It is a dangerous game to play, but I understand why the team does it.

When the new arena opened, I said then that there would be season over season increases to regulate them with others around the league in new arenas. I do think 40-50% is the saturation point and I am just glad that the team has done it in steps instead of two big 25% increases in the first two seasons.

[moondart]

What about all the money the owners lost when the team sucked? Maybe they're just trying to make up for lost time when they were pumping money into the team when they could have been pumping money into other investments..ya know.. ones that would have made them money? I'm not all up to date on what went on behind the scenes during that time frame and if/how much capital they actually lost, but potentially thats something to consider. And I don't blame them. Get it while its hot! I would say its a vocal minority that feel the way some on this board feel about ticket prices.

Yea, making up for lost business 10 yrs ago is GREAT business to do now. So, Mcdonalds should raise the price on BIg Macs because 10 yrs ago they lost money with the "MCribs" experiment.

And your right...I'm sure its only a minority of STH who don't mind 40% increases...

I'm assuming that you were kidding...or you drink the Koolaide.

Is someone forcing you to buy tickets?

If there's something that I'm paying for that I don't think is worth it, I stop paying for it so I don't have to worry about it. There's no prize for being a martyr.

When did I say ANYTHING about being forced to buy tickets or being a martyr? You Koolaide drinkers still don't get it so I'll try one last time: THE PENS CAN CHARGE ANYTHING THEY WANT FOR TICKETS, BUT WHEN YOU STICK YOUR CUSTOMERS WITH 40% INCREASES AND GIVE LESS OF A PRODUCT (WHILE GETTING MORE STREAMS OF MONEY IN ADDITION TO THOSE TIX): YOU LOOK LIKE GREEDY AHOLES!!

This has nothing to do with what "I" or "you" can afford. Its not a matter of "fairness"...its a matter of good taste.

But that's not how you started this rant. You didn't say, "hey these guys look like jerks, don't they!!!" you said, "how do they expect us to swallow (keep buying) more expensive tickets"? which indicated you would rather not pay...which is obviously your right.

You drew a conclusion based on what YOU think we are driving at. Whatever..you guys think its ok to raise prices 40% on your customers while giving less of a product while your customers are aware your getting more money in other areas of that business that were not available? Fine...

Word of advice though: Don't start a business with this mentality guys...you won't last long.

[Three Stars]

You drew a conclusion based on what YOU think we are driving at. Whatever..you guys think its ok to raise prices on your customers while giving less of a product while your customers are aware your getting more money in other areas of that business that were not available? Fine...

Word of advice though: Don't start a business with this mentality guys...you won't last long.

Fine, you've made your point.

I would say that if you are willingly giving money to the Penguins with feelings such as you have, then you're basically setting yourself up to be upset. I would get out now.

[moondart]

You drew a conclusion based on what YOU think we are driving at. Whatever..you guys think its ok to raise prices on your customers while giving less of a product while your customers are aware your getting more money in other areas of that business that were not available? Fine...

Word of advice though: Don't start a business with this mentality guys...you won't last long.

Fine, you've made your point.

I would say that if you are willingly giving money to the Penguins with feelings such as you have, then you're basically setting yourself up to be upset. I would get out now.

Setting myself up for being upset at 40% increases? Or you mean in the next 40%? Let me know the "acceptable" threshold there Dad. Thanks..

Again: it's not about the money, its about the principle dude.

[MRandall25]

You drew a conclusion based on what YOU think we are driving at. Whatever..you guys think its ok to raise prices on your customers while giving less of a product while your customers are aware your getting more money in other areas of that business that were not available? Fine...

Word of advice though: Don't start a business with this mentality guys...you won't last long.

Fine, you've made your point.

I would say that if you are willingly giving money to the Penguins with feelings such as you have, then you're basically setting yourself up to be upset. I would get out now.

Setting myself up for being upset at 40% increases? Or you mean in the next 40%? Let me know the "acceptable" threshold there Dad. Thanks..

Again: it's not about the money, its about the principle dude.

So what? It's a business. You obviously, for some reason, can't grasp the core concept here. The Pens are not here to cater to your every whim.

[moondart]

Let's use the lemonade stand example:

I own a lemonade stand and I am on the brink financially. I ask for donations around town for people to support my stand and get me a new one. I get a bunch of support, get a new lemonade stand that enables me to sell 3 times the amount before.

After the new stand sets up, I start watering down my lemonade making it less tasty. I then raise the price of my lemonade by 40% at the same time even though my cost is now less and everyone knows I'm making 3x what I did before.

I then say I can charge anything I want for my lemonade....which is true. But, don't ya think it pisses off your customers?

[columbia]

Then do what any rational person would do, if they were an unsatisfied customer: spend your money elsewhere.

[MRandall25]

I wouldn't say having Crosby and Malkin in their respective primes is "watering down the lemonade"

[moondart]

You drew a conclusion based on what YOU think we are driving at. Whatever..you guys think its ok to raise prices on your customers while giving less of a product while your customers are aware your getting more money in other areas of that business that were not available? Fine...

Word of advice though: Don't start a business with this mentality guys...you won't last long.

Fine, you've made your point.

I would say that if you are willingly giving money to the Penguins with feelings such as you have, then you're basically setting yourself up to be upset. I would get out now.

Setting myself up for being upset at 40% increases? Or you mean in the next 40%? Let me know the "acceptable" threshold there Dad. Thanks..

Again: it's not about the money, its about the principle dude.

So what? It's a business. You obviously, for some reason, can't grasp the core concept here. The Pens are not here to cater to your every whim.

I need to put up Veghn Diagrams for you people: Its not about "catering" or "fairness" or "free market" its about the principle.

Must have a lot of kids on this thread posting...because they keep typing about those 3 when it has nothing to do with what I (and others) are stating.

[MRandall25]

You drew a conclusion based on what YOU think we are driving at. Whatever..you guys think its ok to raise prices on your customers while giving less of a product while your customers are aware your getting more money in other areas of that business that were not available? Fine...

Word of advice though: Don't start a business with this mentality guys...you won't last long.

Fine, you've made your point.

I would say that if you are willingly giving money to the Penguins with feelings such as you have, then you're basically setting yourself up to be upset. I would get out now.

Setting myself up for being upset at 40% increases? Or you mean in the next 40%? Let me know the "acceptable" threshold there Dad. Thanks..

Again: it's not about the money, its about the principle dude.

So what? It's a business. You obviously, for some reason, can't grasp the core concept here. The Pens are not here to cater to your every whim.

I need to put up Veghn Diagrams for you people: Its not about "catering" or "fairness" or "free market" its about the principle.

Must have a lot of kids on this thread posting...because they keep typing about those 3 when it has nothing to do with what I (and others) are stating.

Saying it's about principle is saying "I'm mad because I don't want to pay for it", so you're basically saying it's unfair you have to keep paying more money.

Any way you spin it, you look like you're complaining.

[BurghersAndDogsSports]

^ This guy knows how to maximize the penguins organization's revenue.... pretty amazing since he has no firm numbers or really any facts. Interesting the best way for the pens to make money according to him fits in with his view of his pocket book and how good the team is.

Ok, so you don't think it's a problem that the season ticket holders cancelled their playoff tickets in a year when the pens were cup favorites? Or that they seem to need to save money at every corner? Or that people who are in the 300 or 400 or 500 part of the wait list get tickets when only 100 are offered because so many on the wait list pass up the chance? Or that games in October or November at student rush filled?

In retrospect my pocket book is only hit slightly all things considered. And it's laughable you state that about the team being good since if they do go into the tank I am sure other fans wouldn't care at all and their sales wouldn't follow suit.

I dont know.... maybe you should ask the organization? They are the ones with the numbers...............


I used to go to about 10 games a year... even when they were garbage. I go to one or two now, no playoff games aside from game 7 in detroit. It's not worth the money to me and I could easily afford them if I want. But i'm not ******** and crying about it.... the organization clearly knows how to accumulate the most amount of $.


Let me ask you something....... do you think the Pens organization is that short sighted, that they want to lose money on purpose?

That is a fair question. To be honest I think they thought they were slightly invincible and were gearing up for a long playoff run and tried to bank as much money as possible, that is why they did stupid things like cuting out whiteout shirts. No matter how you look at 40 - 45% increase over 3 seasons and 30% increases in one playoff year are pushing the limits of reasonable.

I am lucky that I can afford tickets and it doesn't affect my livelihood. But if you are a team that pushes prices so high in one playoff year that people are running away in droves even though you are cup favorites, then yes I think they were a bit short sighted and have been as evidence by the amount of students, wait list passing up tickets, resale numbers, playoff cancels and so on.

They are pushing the limits to capitalize which is fine. But any business model that pushes the limits too far in a positive time will feel the effects down the road. That is business 101. The pens have pushed it si far I am seeing effects now which is not good. If the cap goes down, they trade Staal or whatever, and are stuck with a crappy defense for the next few seasons until contracts run out we can revisit this thread and see if I was right.

[newarenanow]

I wouldn't say having Crosby and Malkin in their respective primes is "watering down the lemonade"

That was my question as well. The Pens may have fallen short of expectations, but they certainly have not tried to "water down" the product.