The Big 3 -- who goes?

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The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby opie22002 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:07 am

Sadly, I think the Penguins have to start thinking about which of the big three centers is expendable down the road. Can we really afford to have 3 top line centers while hoping for cheaper wingers and defensemen to carry the load otherwise?

I think the biggest change the Pens need is on D this summer. Shero tried to remake the group a year ago by bringing in Michalek and Martin, but for whatever reason, that just isn't working out. I like Despres and the promise of Morrow, but can you really rely on them to win you playoff games in the coming year or two?

So where do we free up space to address the D(eficiency)? Is it time to think about what GM Paul Holmgren did and retool by trading Malkin or Staal (I don't think we'd ever trade Crosby).

Malkin's value may never be higher. He was a beast all season long. He sort of fell off when Sid came back, which is a common problem over the years. He's going to make more than Staal. He and Crosby like the same spot on the powerplay.

Staal adds a different element that Malkin and Crosby. He's a great penalty killer and embraces the shut down role.

So what do you guys think? Is it time to see what Malkin or Staal would bring on the open market? And if so, which do you let go?
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby oliasphodel on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:10 am

Would you take Rick Nash and a first round pick (2nd overall) for Malkin?
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby newarenanow on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:13 am

oliasphodel wrote:Would you take Rick Nash and a first round pick (2nd overall) for Malkin?


Not me. Nope.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby pfim on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:14 am

oliasphodel wrote:Would you take Rick Nash and a first round pick (2nd overall) for Malkin?


No. Why?
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby shmenguin on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:15 am

you trade staal only if you're confident he can't be re-signed next year.

you don't trade malkin. period.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby pfim on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:15 am

I think you re-tool the blueline by moving out the players on the blueline who aren't performing. They spend about $20 million for the 6-7 guys on the blueline, that should be enough.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby Pitts on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:17 am

oliasphodel wrote:Would you take Rick Nash and a first round pick (2nd overall) for Malkin?

Hellsno! You crazy bro?

If Malkin goes, it's for a stud dman, and at least 2 YOUNG, promising wingers, and a top pick.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby cheesesteakwithegg on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:18 am

Sid is the face of the franchise, sells jerseys, etc. He will be resigned.

Geno stays because they need him to be the face of the franchise if something were to happen to Sid. Plus, he is a Conn Smythe and Art Ross winner.

Staal is the odd man out if someone has to go.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby comatose on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:18 am

Why do people keep comparing this team to the Flyers in terms of breaking up stars?

Richards couldn't hold Sidney Crosby's jock strap.

Carter is better at committing adultery than he is at playing hockey.

We are talking about two of the best if not THE best playings in the WORLD. To trade either of them is just idiotic.

Staal, on the other hand, will have to be traded if he makes it clear that he won't sign here again due to playing on the third line. If that's the case (and I don't blame him one bit) you have to make the move. He isn't a winger, and there's no point in trying to force him to play on the top two lines here.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby penny lane on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:20 am

pfim wrote:I think you re-tool the blueline by moving out the players on the blueline who aren't performing. They spend about $20 million for the 6-7 guys on the blueline, that should be enough.


:thumb:

Not good when 2 rookies can maintain better than a regular.

Shero keeps all 3!
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby AlexPKeaton on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:24 am

I would dump DB and RS both before I willingly trade away any of the big 3.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby no name on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:24 am

Ok Sid got through the playoffs ok, but there are still serious ?? about his health, he will always be one hit away. If you trade Staal or don't sign him and Sid gets hurt you went from a 3 great centers to one. I think you got to keep Staal.

Sid even though he is the best, would be the one you would trade since he has the most questions about him. But come on you don't trade Sid so you gotta stay with status Quo for now. 3 big centers and make shift wingers.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby shmenguin on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:24 am

comatose wrote:He isn't a winger, and there's no point in trying to force him to play on the top two lines here.


we don't know enough to say this. put him with sid or geno for 80 games, get him on the power play in kunitz's spot and he'll have 35-40 goals on a contending (theoretically) team. i can't read his mind, but i have trouble believing that he wouldn't approve of that scenario.

and for a guy who may want to be a marquee "center", staal is an average-at-best playmaker. he's good at carrying the puck and covering a lot of ice. there's nothing in the rule book that says wings aren't allowed to do that.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby Guinness on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:28 am

I'd like to see all three stay. I'm just not sure it's going to work out like that. In a perfect scenario, I agree with pfim that the defense should be upgraded from the blueline, and ideally that will happen. I think Martin is a good but way too soft defenseman, same with Michalek. Too much of that back there right now. I'd like to see Niskanen retained, and I think his play makes one of those two a little more expendable.

I think in the not too distant past here I wondered aloud what a Staal/Martin package might fetch. Hard to say at this point. I think around the deadline I was also in favor of figuring out a way to bring in a more traditional third line center and either moving Staal to the top six, or moving him for an upgrade either at wing and/or defense.

At this point, with the wounds so fresh, it's hard to make unemotional judgments about a lot of these guys...
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby comatose on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:31 am

Guinness wrote:I think in the not too distant past here I wondered aloud what a Staal/Martin package might fetch.

Interesting... the Pens might be able to use Staal to unload Martin (you want one, you have to take the other). This is assuming that the rumors about Staal not being happy with his role are true and the Pens are forced to trade him.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby RxBandit66 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:38 am

If one has to go, I think you trade for any combination of the following:

1) A young viable backup goaltender
2) A young right handed winger
3) A third line center
4) A high draft pick

But I would try to keep them all, if one is willing to move to wing
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:43 am

The issue is I am not sure you would get enough return for Staal. We all know and love him here but his numbers and status (say for a team looking to get a number 1 center and sell tickets....he is not a HUGE overall name) dont warrant a ton in return.

I would love to find a way to keep all 3. Unfortunately the cap may not increase or keep increasing. Even if we rid ourselves of the M brothers on D we can not win another cup without upgrades on defense, 3rd line center (if we lose Staal), at least one more winger and a quality 4th line type speed grinder/pk player.
Last edited by BurghersAndDogsSports on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby Malkamaniac on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:43 am

I was not prepared for these threads so soon this year.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby RxBandit66 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:44 am

Or maybe this:

1) Trade Staal for a young right handed winger and a young third line center
2) Trade Martin for Malone
3) Let Sully walk, Malone replaces him, the winger replaces Cooke, the center replaces Staal

? just a thought ?
Last edited by RxBandit66 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:47 am

Trading Malkin shouldn't be remotely considered. You don't trade a player like that in his prime. Same goes for Crosby, obviously. You'd never get a return that makes it worth it. Trading, not just one of the best players in the league today but someone that probably will go down as an all-time great, just to shake things up is crazy. Staal's a different story, although they certainly should make every attempt to get him locked up this summer. He's not at their level and never will be, although he's becoming very good himself. I don't see the third line center thing being an issue. He's clearly ready for a bigger role, and I don't buy into the talk that he can't play wing. It'll come down to money. If he requires more than the Pens can spend on him to stay, he should be traded this summer.

Defense should be "re-tooled" but not rebuilt. They have a good group of defensemen here. It's the team's style of play that makes them look bad. What's more reasonable, the possibility that all of Orpik, Martin, Michalek, and even Letang suddenly are bad at defense or maybe it's the way the team plays that throws them under the bus? You can swap out the entire D and play the same way and I imagine the results will be the same. They do have moves to make on D simply because of the number of guys they have. Dump Lovejoy and that gives you eight NHL D in Letang, Orpik, Martin, Michalek, Niskanen, Engelland, Despres, and Strait. Although Letang frustrates at times, you don't trade him. A full season of Letang maybe is a Norris Trophy caliber season and he's too much of a bargain at his current cap hit to possibly get a fair return. I'd look at dealing one of Orpik, Martin, Michalek, or Niskanen. That clears up a roster spot and some cap space so they can tinker with the lineup.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby AlexPKeaton on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:48 am

Staal needs to move to #1 line on a wing with Sidney Crosby for next season. No way I would trade such a big boy like him when we haven't given it another shot at wing. To do this, RS *must* sign a 3rd line center.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby Mr. Colby on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:50 am

Staal, if we don't think we can resign him.

Staal can get you probably 2 of these 3:

-Young scoring winger
-Young two-way center
-Physical top-4 defenseman

It seems weird to say because Staal himself is a "young two-way center", but I guess the definition for young here would be limited to players on their EL contracts or 1st contract after the EL. Staal is young by age standards, but he will be entering his 7th season in the NHL and the final year of his 1st contract after the EL.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby AlexPKeaton on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:54 am

Staal is young and is a key component into helping a team win now also. You don't trade the big 3! You move Staal to wing and give him 1st line minutes and PP time to keep him happy. No way do you move him. You move old scrubs like Orpik, overrated goaltenders, and you replace idiot coaches before you move someone like Staal.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby RxBandit66 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:57 am

Henry Hank wrote:Trading Malkin shouldn't be remotely considered. You don't trade a player like that in his prime. Same goes for Crosby, obviously. You'd never get a return that makes it worth it. Trading, not just one of the best players in the league today but someone that probably will go down as an all-time great, just to shake things up is crazy. Staal's a different story, although they certainly should make every attempt to get him locked up this summer. He's not at their level and never will be, although he's becoming very good himself. I don't see the third line center thing being an issue. He's clearly ready for a bigger role, and I don't buy into the talk that he can't play wing. It'll come down to money. If he requires more than the Pens can spend on him to stay, he should be traded this summer.

Defense should be "re-tooled" but not rebuilt. They have a good group of defensemen here. It's the team's style of play that makes them look bad. What's more reasonable, the possibility that all of Orpik, Martin, Michalek, and even Letang suddenly are bad at defense or maybe it's the way the team plays that throws them under the bus? You can swap out the entire D and play the same way and I imagine the results will be the same. They do have moves to make on D simply because of the number of guys they have. Dump Lovejoy and that gives you eight NHL D in Letang, Orpik, Martin, Michalek, Niskanen, Engelland, Despres, and Strait. Although Letang frustrates at times, you don't trade him. A full season of Letang maybe is a Norris Trophy caliber season and he's too much of a bargain at his current cap hit to possibly get a fair return. I'd look at dealing one of Orpik, Martin, Michalek, or Niskanen. That clears up a roster spot and some cap space so they can tinker with the lineup.


Despres is ready I think, and Niskanen was one of the bright spots on defense. With Letang and Engelland not going anywhere, they could actually move two of the following (Martin, Orpik, Michalek) and that would open up a TON of cap space.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby comatose on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:58 am

AlexPKeaton wrote:Staal needs to move to #1 line on a wing with Sidney Crosby for next season. No way I would trade such a big boy like him when we haven't given it another shot at wing. To do this, RS *must* sign a 3rd line center.

Could Jordan Staal finally be the winger for Crosby we've been looking for!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?
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