The Big 3 -- who goes?

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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby Nizzy on Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:22 am


--------------------------------------------------------
RFA (previous salary cap hit)
UFA (previous salary cap hit)
AHL/PROSPECT

2012-13
--------------------------------------------------------
Kunitz (3.725) Malkin (8.7) Neal (5.0)
Sullivan (1.5) Crosby (8.7) Dupuis (1.5)
Cooke (1.8) Staal (4.0) Tangradi (.850)
Jeffrey (.575) Vitale (.550) Player (##)
McDonald (##)
Street (##)

Forward Salary Cap Totals: 36.9

-Kennedy (2.0) Trade
-Adams (.675) Trade / Waive
-Asham (.775) Contract Expires
-MacIntyre (.6) Contract Expires
-Park (.550) Contract Expires

--------------------------------------------------------
Orpik (3.75) Letang (3.5)
Niskanen (2.5) Michalek (4.0)
Engelland (.567) Despres (.840)
Bortuzzo (##)
Strait (##)
Morrow (##)

Defense Salary Cap Totals: 14.317

-Martin (5.0) Trade
-Lovejoy (5.0) Trade / Waive

--------------------------------------------------------
Fleury (5.0)
Player (##)

Goaltender Salary Cap Totals: 5.0

-Johnson (.6) Contract Expires

--------------------------------------------------------
Current Total: 56.217
Salary Cap: 64.3
Cap Space = 8.083


For the year after this, assuming Crosby no raise and the Cap stays the same:

Staal can get 6-6.5M, Letang can get 5-5.5M and w should still have some cap space.

Give Staal a 10 year deal at slightly a lower cap hit. Contract will end when he is 34 so that you could give him an under 35 contract for his next one so he can retire whenever and its off the books.

Raise his Jersey up after that.

:thumb:
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby Pitts on Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:24 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Who is better suited to thrive in clutch and grab? Still the drastically more skilled, drastically quicker at accelerating, and faster players. Crosby and Malkin would still be far better than Staal.

Really? Who was doing most of the scoring against Philly?
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby Pitts on Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:28 am

Malkamaniac wrote:I honestly think the Crosby concussion issue is over for the most part. I really think that his neck was what was bothering him because once they "diagnosed" it correctly he was back in a few weeks.

I agree. I think at this point, he needs the off season and full training camp to be "back" next season. You don't take a year and a half off and jump right back into the game as the top performer you were when you left.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby sil on Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:30 am

Nizzy wrote:Neal Malkin 4th-Liner
4th-Liner Crosby 4th-Liner
4th-Liner Staal 4th-Liner
4th-Liner 4th-Liner 4th-Liner

2009 quality defense (not 2010, not 2012, maybe 2011 was good enough)

MAF

= Cup chance every year.



We won the cup with GUERIN, DUPUIS, TALBOT, FEDOTENKO, SYKORA, KENNEDY, COOKE as our top 9 wingers. This team needs Staal to stay, and the only upgrades we need are defense/a more defensive system.

It's really that simple, none of the big 3 have to go...


4th liners are Adam Hall, Craig Adams, Dustin Jeffrey, Eric Tangradi (at least right now)...those types aren't going to give you the goals and playing style that Guerin, Dupuis, Talbot, Kennedy, and Cooke provide/provided in the playoffs. Honestly though, revamping the D (if you can move Martin and Orpik) would certainly go a long way toward helping.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby sil on Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:34 am

I want to be clear that those of us who support the idea of trading Malkin (not saying "we have to" or "we're doomed if we do/don't" etc...) are expecting a hefty and solid return that would immediately add to this team, help round it out, and lower the cap crunch all at the same time. Obviously I'm not excited about the idea of trading Malkin for garbage prospects, which I understand everyone is worried about after the awful Jagr trade. If you can't get a return that helps this team in the ways I stated above, then I'd want no part of it obviously.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby sil on Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:36 am

Nizzy wrote:-Lovejoy (5.0)


:shock:

I think I'd burn Shero at the stake myself!
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:38 am

Pitts wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Who is better suited to thrive in clutch and grab? Still the drastically more skilled, drastically quicker at accelerating, and faster players. Crosby and Malkin would still be far better than Staal.

Really? Who was doing most of the scoring against Philly?

uh...lol? if not then foe'd.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby offsides on Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:46 am

sil wrote:I want to be clear that those of us who support the idea of trading Malkin (not saying "we have to" or "we're doomed if we do/don't" etc...) are expecting a hefty and solid return that would immediately add to this team, help round it out, and lower the cap crunch all at the same time. Obviously I'm not excited about the idea of trading Malkin for garbage prospects, which I understand everyone is worried about after the awful Jagr trade. If you can't get a return that helps this team in the ways I stated above, then I'd want no part of it obviously.


This is what I would hope for IF Malkin was moved. I still think it could be a positive for the team.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby marek on Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:55 pm

I'll play... being completely hypothetical you would think that from a GM's perspective the best move would be to to maximize your return if you dealt any of the big three. Logic states that of the three moving Staal would yield the least return and bang for the buck. He's got a smaller cap hit, but not as much cache as Sid or Geno. The cap hit could work in GMRS favor too though, maybe another team would give up more though so who knows (I'm not advocating any of these moves, just trying to find suitable partners and logical returns)

That said, if you moved Sid or Geno you could reshape the team in a hurry. Get cap space, get deeper, ditch some dead wood and hopefully get a Physical or shut down D

Trade Malkin to Edmonton for the first overall (Yukapov) and Gagner?
Perhaps throw in Kennedy and get back Sutton or Schultz?
Talk NJ into taking back Martin for the rights to negotiate with Parise.

then you have a pens team that could line up with:

Kunitz - Crosby - Neal
Parise - Staal - Yukapov
Cooke - Gagner - Dupuis
Adams - Vitale - Tangradi

Orpik - Letang
Michalek - Sutton/Schultz
Engleland - Despres (Strait)

Fleury - Theissen


Or trade Crosby to Montreal, with Kennedy and hopefully Martin...
for a package of Price, Pacioretty, Plekanec, Tinordi and 3rd overall pick this year (Grigorenko or Galchenyuk)

then frees you up to move Fleury for a second line right winger and/or sign Parise too.

Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Pacioretty/Parise - Staal - Return from Fleury trade (St. Louis - as TB needs a goalie badly)
Cooke - Plekanec - Dupuis
Adams - Vitale - Tangradi

Orpik - Letang
Michalek - Despres
Engleland - Strait

Price - Theissen

Do this and you could also get two solid prospects/potential young stars - A future monster dman, and a talented C or W for Malkin to mentor.


Go ahead... have at it...
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:57 pm

I'm not interested in them trading Malkin, but Parise would be intriguing.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby sil on Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:08 pm

marek wrote:Parise - Staal - Yukapov

Pacioretty/Parise - Staal - Return from Fleury trade (St. Louis - as TB needs a goalie badly)


I'm guessing you really like Parise?
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:09 pm

sil wrote:
marek wrote:Parise - Staal - Yukapov

Pacioretty/Parise - Staal - Return from Fleury trade (St. Louis - as TB needs a goalie badly)


I'm guessing you really like Parise?


I was assuming he hated Parise. :pop:
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby marek on Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:30 pm

sil wrote:
marek wrote:Parise - Staal - Yukapov

Pacioretty/Parise - Staal - Return from Fleury trade (St. Louis - as TB needs a goalie badly)


I'm guessing you really like Parise?


Not at all... but he's arguably the most talented winger available this off-season... just looking at options
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby jf on Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:37 pm

Trade Letang and send Bylsma walking .
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby Rylan on Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:25 pm

:face:
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby CERV96 on Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:10 pm

Reading through all of this I have seen it mentioned about a million times by people saying Crosby is one hit away from retirement. IIRC doesn't Geno have a history of knee issues? Doesn't Staal have a history of hand, knee and foot issues? My point is each player has a history that can easily be considered carrer ending/threatening.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby HomerPenguin on Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:27 pm

I know they say they're doing well now, but I still would say that Chrysler is the most likely of the Big 3 to go.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby Streaks House on Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:31 pm

CERV96 wrote:Reading through all of this I have seen it mentioned about a million times by people saying Crosby is one hit away from retirement. IIRC doesn't Geno have a history of knee issues? Doesn't Staal have a history of hand, knee and foot issues? My point is each player has a history that can easily be considered carrer ending/threatening.


Concussion history =/= freak hand and foot issues
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby sil on Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:40 pm

HomerPenguin wrote:I know they say they're doing well now, but I still would say that Chrysler is the most likely of the Big 3 to go.


:fist: :thumb: :lol:
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby no name on Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:39 am

If your trade Staal you gotta try and package him with Martin. Frees up 9 million in cap space for a winger for Sid and another defenceman. You will have to go with a no frills defenisve 3rd line center. Kennedy and Cooke might have to be moved for a more blue colar 3rd liners.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby Nizzy on Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:11 am

I just don't get it.

Team averaged like 4 goals a game in a league where under 6 goals a game are scored (combined teams)

And the logic is to blow up the offense by trading the number 1 offensive player.

Its called 2 different defenseman, a new defensive system, a legit backup to take some workload off the Cup Winning Starter, and possibly some new coaches.

I just don't get where trading a big 3 is even a remote Idea.

Is Rossi in here somewhere?

If the Cap doesn't move up or down by more than 1-2M, look at the numbers, you can keep all 3 and still do other small/slight moves.

What am I missing here? This place is stressing me out :9
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby czwalga on Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:28 am

We scored more than enough goals to win.
Do you actually think staal would have produced nearly as many points swapping malkin off the team and putting staal in that role? No way in hell.


Staals job this series was to shut giroux down.... part of that is him, part of that is DB for getting owned on the matchups. Not harping on staal though he played more than fine for my liking just saying, its not as black and white as swapping malkin and staal. Staals defense this year has taken a big hit, he's not nearly as good of a defensive player since he started to get a little taste of scoring. That's a problem.... we need a shutdown center, not what staal wants to become.



As many people that are wanting changes, what were the MAIN problems in this series? 3 SHG... teams that score a SHG in a game rarely EVER lose. Phillys PP/Our PK. Well thats not sid or malkins fault since they dont play. Fleury.... well they wont move him but he has to be better, Soft ass goals kill a team. People ******** about martin so much, when in all honesty I dont think he played any worse than anyone else aside from niskanen. His salary sucks and he didnt really step up... but there was only like one goal in the series that could soley be blamed on him.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:51 am

Yes...and thats why they ***** about him over others. He was just as bad as everyone else and makes more than everyone else. If everyone is bad, then the person taking the most cap space up is the biggest problem.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby czwalga on Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:18 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Yes...and thats why they ***** about him over others. He was just as bad as everyone else and makes more than everyone else. If everyone is bad, then the person taking the most cap space up is the biggest problem.



I agree, but just saying Orpik who is a supposive leader was no better.
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Re: The Big 3 -- who goes?

Postby meecrofilm on Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:21 am

marek wrote:Go ahead... have at it...


Pens will be in the market for a legit back-up this off-season. Shero knows Johnson won't cut it anymore and Thiessen isn't an NHL goaltender.
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