Lack of accountability

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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby Hawkeynut on Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:14 am

You know, sometimes 1 team will just school you no matter what you do and alternatively you will school another team. It is how competitive team sports work. The Rangers were a good club against a majority of the league, yet they have had and are having a hard time defeating an 8th place Senators squad.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby Pens15 on Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:30 am

Hawkeynut wrote:You know, sometimes 1 team will just school you no matter what you do and alternatively you will school another team. It is how competitive team sports work. The Rangers were a good club against a majority of the league, yet they have had and are having a hard time defeating an 8th place Senators squad.


Meh. When you give up a near-record amount of goals for a six game series, that speaks to a deeper problem IMO.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby offsides on Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:54 am

penny lane wrote:The pens never corrected the way they played philadelphia through the entire year. They think they can skate with Philly and they cannot. No adjustments made from 1st game regular season game, in how they approach playing the flyers.


Yep Penny, just another reason DB is not the right guy for the job, IMHO. Someone has to be accountable and as of right now I haven't heard anyone say "my fault"
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby Penspal on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:30 am

penny lane wrote:The pens never corrected the way they played philadelphia through the entire year. They think they can skate with Philly and they cannot. No adjustments made from 1st game regular season game, in how they approach playing the flyers.


They attempted corrections, just got the wrong answers.

- Goon it up? If that was the coaches decision, they must be held accountable
- Stupid Penalties? What is HCDB supposed to do? Sit Kunitz for taking bad penalties? Geno? Neal? The Pens do have some depth, but stupid penalty mistakes are the players fault.
- Shaky Goaltending? While MAF didn't lose the series for them, he did not help. Goalie is most important penalty killer. MAf's goalie coach GCGM may need to go at the very least.
- Pens invested bigtime in hitting early on in series, but then got away from it. That was a mistake in my opinion, another poor correction.
- Maybe the Pens could have blocked more shots without the slide?

Or maybe the Pens just didn't match up well vs. the Flyers ALL YEAR. Talbot certainly gave insights into how to play vs. the Pens systems, and knew what buttons to push in playoffs.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby Henry Hank on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:38 am

- Stupid Penalties? What is HCDB supposed to do? Sit Kunitz for taking bad penalties? Geno? Neal? The Pens do have some depth, but stupid penalty mistakes are the players fault.


Well this one in particular was kind of the point of the thread. Yes, he should sit them. But it should have been done in the regular season. This is what frustrates me with this team. Stuff like this happens all season long and they just let it go, I guess assuming that once the playoffs start, they'll be able to flip a switch and start playing smart hockey. It didn't work like that in 2010 and didn't work like that in 2012. Bylsma wants his players to execute better, well that takes practice. These guys are given a standard all season that failure to execute and careless penalties are just brushed aside. When they get to the playoffs, they have no practice in actually curbing that and, surprise, they can't. The team can't coast through the regular season and expect that will have them prepared for the playoffs. The Pens, top to bottom, appear to be entitled, complacent, and satisfied. I guess somewhere along the line, just having a good regular season became enough.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby HockeyDaddy on Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:48 pm

Penspal wrote:
penny lane wrote:The pens never corrected the way they played philadelphia through the entire year. They think they can skate with Philly and they cannot. No adjustments made from 1st game regular season game, in how they approach playing the flyers.


They attempted corrections, just got the wrong answers.

- Goon it up? If that was the coaches decision, they must be held accountable
- Stupid Penalties? What is HCDB supposed to do? Sit Kunitz for taking bad penalties? Geno? Neal? The Pens do have some depth, but stupid penalty mistakes are the players fault.
- Shaky Goaltending? While MAF didn't lose the series for them, he did not help. Goalie is most important penalty killer. MAf's goalie coach GCGM may need to go at the very least.
- Pens invested bigtime in hitting early on in series, but then got away from it. That was a mistake in my opinion, another poor correction.
- Maybe the Pens could have blocked more shots without the slide?

Or maybe the Pens just didn't match up well vs. the Flyers ALL YEAR. Talbot certainly gave insights into how to play vs. the Pens systems, and knew what buttons to push in playoffs.


The Pens put a huge emphasis on shot blocking during the Cup years...I really didn't see that as a focus at all this year. Instead, it was always about shots on goal. This team could be just as offensively potent with a greater focus on team defense. Defense creates offense. I never want to hear the term stretch pass again. This is not the new NHL anymore.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby Rocco on Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:57 pm

Penspal wrote:
penny lane wrote:The pens never corrected the way they played philadelphia through the entire year. They think they can skate with Philly and they cannot. No adjustments made from 1st game regular season game, in how they approach playing the flyers.


They attempted corrections, just got the wrong answers.

- Goon it up? If that was the coaches decision, they must be held accountable
- Stupid Penalties? What is HCDB supposed to do? Sit Kunitz for taking bad penalties? Geno? Neal? The Pens do have some depth, but stupid penalty mistakes are the players fault.


Sitting Kunitz might have gotten the message across that he needed to stop acting like he was wearing a Flyers jersey.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby Penspal on Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:04 pm

Rocco wrote:
Penspal wrote:
penny lane wrote:The pens never corrected the way they played philadelphia through the entire year. They think they can skate with Philly and they cannot. No adjustments made from 1st game regular season game, in how they approach playing the flyers.


They attempted corrections, just got the wrong answers.

- Goon it up? If that was the coaches decision, they must be held accountable
- Stupid Penalties? What is HCDB supposed to do? Sit Kunitz for taking bad penalties? Geno? Neal? The Pens do have some depth, but stupid penalty mistakes are the players fault.


Sitting Kunitz might have gotten the message across that he needed to stop acting like he was wearing a Flyers jersey.


I don't disagree that sitting Kunitz especially, but his transgressions were mostly in game 2...... so you sit him when your down 2-0? Kunitz disapointed me probably more than ANY Pen in the post season.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:05 pm

Kunitz was doing the same stupidity during the regular season. That was when it needed addressed.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby penmyst on Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:50 pm

Look, I'm not going to defend HCDB. It's time for him to go, IMHO.

But let me say this:

Aren't those players out there PROFESSIONAL athletes?

mini-rant tangent: While I know the Pittsburgh answer to everything is smashmouth toughness, you can't berate and "bully" guys into not playing soft. Into being defensively responsible. Into working hard at the little things. Into getting in the right mindset, namely defensive hockey. Plus, asserting that players need to "work harder" is not always the answer. Working smarter while working harder, yes. But just working harder makes you a ham-n-egger, like most yinzers.

I mean, if "toughness" is the answer as we are seeing dodos across Pens Nation talk about gambling-scandal Tocchet for coach (and even a cursory mention of mean old Gary Roberts in this thread)... why not go get Mike Tyson to coach? I mean, surely nobody would yell harsh words at him across the benches? Cuz old Mike would knock their block off or bite their ear! What's that you say? At no point in the current history of the NHL would the league tolerate a coach laying one single finger on another coach? And that therefore, would render any physical toughness moot since nobody would ever have to "throw down"?

So what you are saying then, Mr. Hypothetical Criticizer of my point, is that physical toughness means jack squat to coaching and absolutely has no bearing on making the Pens a better or worse team? But but... HCDB is a bad coach because he DOESN'T YELL ENOUGH LIKE BILL CAHWHURRR!

Back to the thread...

This idea that the coach is fully responsible for players taking dumb penalties and being generally derelict in their defensive duties is silly. He shares some blame. But lets put the remaining 90% where it belongs: on the players.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby Sheriff66 on Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:06 pm

comatose wrote:I used to love when Therrien would put Malkin or Whitney on the fourth line when they were being undisciplined or playing poorly. I also loved when he called Whitney out in the media for costing them the game. The players didn't like it, but I did.

I think stuff like that works and there isn't enough of it on the Penguins. Granted, you can't really put Crosby or Malkin on the fourth line any more being who they are, but what about guys like Martin? Spare me the fake "undisclosed" injury. Sometimes these guys need a public kick in the arse.


This isn't squirt hockey, that won't fly for long
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby jimjom on Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:17 am

shmenguin wrote:i've heard the players say (earlier in the series mainly) that if a few bounces went their way or whatever, that the series would be different. that's your accountability problem right there. i know they may have to say that sort of thing to reporters, but if they sincerely believe that nonsense, this issue runs very very deep. someone needed to smack them in the collective head and say, "wake up, idiots!". i sincerely doubt that bylsma is capable of that (though like HH said, as fans, this is speculative of course).


Absolutely agree. I'm so sick of hearing the bad bounce excuse. You are a professional athlete being paid millions of dollars a year/that people spend hundreds of dollars to watch for 3 hours a night. A bad bounce is when I accidentally tip the puck into my own net in a beer league game. Spare me the bad bounce excuses and own up and say that you played like crap as a team and for most of the team individually save for a few players.

Accountability is something the Penguins don't have until they make a coaching change or personnel changes.

I would stay away from Tocchet as he is kind of a perv to young 20 something girls on twitter over DMs (I know this as a fact and have seen it on somebody I am acquainted with's account) and also let's not forget his gambling scandal when he was in Phoenix. I'd like to see a guy with more integrity but still no choir boy.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby Sheriff66 on Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:36 am

Tocchet replacing Bylsma?

LOL
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby penny lane on Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:04 am

Yesterday, I was looking for GMRS or HCDB to acknowledge they didn't handle the media blitz after the
april 1st game well ... or at all. A strong voice needed to make fools of milbury, l brooks, the whole incident went on the entire week, leading up the end of season flyer game.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby pfim on Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:18 am

I'm not sure I buy the lack of accountability angle for a guy who is nearly 33 years old and has two cups. I think at that point, personal accountability overrides anything Bylsma could do.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:06 pm

THats true, but if its not there, how is the coach not doing anything meaningful? I don't know whats going on "in the room", but I know what happened on the ice...nothing.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby pugilist13 on Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:11 pm

Sheriff66 wrote:Tocchet replacing Bylsma?

LOL

You could probably take any NHL assistant and even some guys in the "A" or juniors for that matter, throw em behind the Pens bench and coast to a 100 point regular season. Playoffs is what determines success, of which the Bylsma regime has had very little of the past 3 years.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby slappybrown on Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:14 pm

pugilist13 wrote:
Sheriff66 wrote:Tocchet replacing Bylsma?

LOL

You could probably take any NHL assistant and even some guys in the "A" or juniors for that matter, throw em behind the Pens bench and coast to a 100 point regular season. Playoffs is what determines success, of which the Bylsma regime has had very little of the past 3 years.

This is hilarious. People are losing their minds.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby pugilist13 on Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:22 pm

slappybrown wrote:
pugilist13 wrote:
Sheriff66 wrote:Tocchet replacing Bylsma?

LOL

You could probably take any NHL assistant and even some guys in the "A" or juniors for that matter, throw em behind the Pens bench and coast to a 100 point regular season. Playoffs is what determines success, of which the Bylsma regime has had very little of the past 3 years.

This is hilarious. People are losing their minds.

Think about it. Where did bylsma come from? Minor league coach with very little experience to Stanley Cup genius. Implemented a forecheck to a solid defensive team. Sometimes the enviroment grows stale. Maybe they just got tired of hearing " lets go black...Lets get to our game"
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby slappybrown on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:18 pm

pugilist13 wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
pugilist13 wrote:
Sheriff66 wrote:Tocchet replacing Bylsma?

LOL

You could probably take any NHL assistant and even some guys in the "A" or juniors for that matter, throw em behind the Pens bench and coast to a 100 point regular season. Playoffs is what determines success, of which the Bylsma regime has had very little of the past 3 years.

This is hilarious. People are losing their minds.

Think about it. Where did bylsma come from? Minor league coach with very little experience to Stanley Cup genius. Implemented a forecheck to a solid defensive team. Sometimes the enviroment grows stale. Maybe they just got tired of hearing " lets go black...Lets get to our game"

If any coach could get 100 pt seasons, why the hell was the team out of a playoff spot when Bylsma was hired?
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby SolidSnake on Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:00 pm

The pens were in the "9th" spot as you said, they weren't in 15th, Byslma didn't work a miracle.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby penmyst on Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:09 am

slappybrown wrote:If any coach could get 100 pt seasons, why the hell was the team out of a playoff spot when Bylsma was hired?


Did you miss the entire team intentionally dogging it to get rid of HCMT?
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby slappybrown on Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:15 pm

penmyst wrote:
slappybrown wrote:If any coach could get 100 pt seasons, why the hell was the team out of a playoff spot when Bylsma was hired?


Did you miss the entire team intentionally dogging it to get rid of HCMT?

So which is it? Either anyone can coach 100 pt season, or "anyone" cannot.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby penmyst on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:01 am

slappybrown wrote:
penmyst wrote:
slappybrown wrote:If any coach could get 100 pt seasons, why the hell was the team out of a playoff spot when Bylsma was hired?


Did you miss the entire team intentionally dogging it to get rid of HCMT?

So which is it? Either anyone can coach 100 pt season, or "anyone" cannot.


Wrong question. One is about coaching. The other is about players.

FHCMT had already shown he was a capable coach. Had taken this group of players to the finals.

The player mutiny in the subsequent season only showed that coaching has its limits at how much players care to listen.
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Re: Lack of accountability

Postby slappybrown on Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:50 am

Ok, so the Pens melting down in 2008-2009 to the point of missing the playoffs when MT was fired = players tune out coach.

Pens finish with 4th best record in league, but lose to Flyers in first round in 6 = players tune out coach.

Makes sense. They were on board all year, through game 73 or so, then were like nah, I hate that Bylsma guy.
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