You're the GM: Part 3

[thehockeyguru]

Trade Martin, Sign Gill and Gaustad.

Orpik - Michalek
Letang - Despres
Niskanen - Morrow

[Malkamaniac]

Trade Martin, Sign Gill and Gaustad.

Orpik - Michalek
Letang - Despres
Niskanen - Morrow

One guy out of six is somewhat good at moving dudes away from the front of the net. Depress.

[Pens4Life]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=394097

comment under Luongo shocked me!?
Neal isn't getting along with Sid and Geno?

[sil]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=394097

comment under Luongo shocked me!?
Neal isn't getting along with Sid and Geno?

Did random fan #455,690,529,119 name his/her sources?

[shmenguin]

Qualify Niskanen and Tangradi and keep Despres up full time:

FORWARDS
James Neal ($5.000m)/Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m)/Chris Kunitz ($3.725m)
Jordan Staal($4.000m)/Sidney Crosby ($8.700m)/Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m)/Dustin Jeffrey ($0.575m)/ Tyler Kennedy ($2.000m)
Eric Tangradi ($0.726m)/Joe Vitale ($0.550m)/Craig Adams ($0.675m)

DEFENSEMEN
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)/ Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Matt Niskanen ($1.500m)/Simon Despres ($0.840m)
Paul Martin ($5.000m)/Zbynek Michalek ($4.000m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)/Ben Lovejoy ($0.525m)

GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Brad Thiessen ($0.578m)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000;
CAP PAYROLL: $63,210,167;
BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster) $1,089,833


Anyone expecting to see something much different better not get your hopes up.

i don't know a ton about the intricacies of RFA negotiations, but that number for niskanen ain't happening. 2 or 3 years, 2-2.5 per would be my guess at the low-end of what he'll get. but shero does know how to keep his own players at good prices so who knows.

[sil]

Qualify Niskanen and Tangradi and keep Despres up full time:

FORWARDS
James Neal ($5.000m)/Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m)/Chris Kunitz ($3.725m)
Jordan Staal($4.000m)/Sidney Crosby ($8.700m)/Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m)/Dustin Jeffrey ($0.575m)/ Tyler Kennedy ($2.000m)
Eric Tangradi ($0.726m)/Joe Vitale ($0.550m)/Craig Adams ($0.675m)

DEFENSEMEN
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)/ Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Matt Niskanen ($1.500m)/Simon Despres ($0.840m)
Paul Martin ($5.000m)/Zbynek Michalek ($4.000m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)/Ben Lovejoy ($0.525m)

GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Brad Thiessen ($0.578m)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000;
CAP PAYROLL: $63,210,167;
BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster) $1,089,833


Anyone expecting to see something much different better not get your hopes up.

i don't know a ton about the intricacies of RFA negotiations, but that number for niskanen ain't happening. 2 or 3 years, 2-2.5 per would be my guess at the low-end of what he'll get. but shero does know how to keep his own players at good prices so who knows.

I honestly could see Niskanen getting a $250,000 - $300,000 raise...$2,000,000 would be overpayment for a guy who still has yet to prove he's more than a third line D-man (minute-wise).

[Pavel Bure]

Yeah I don't think Niskanen gets much if any raise. He hasn't shown enough consistency to demand any kind of money beyond what he's getting.

I say get one of Jackman, Sarich, or Stuart to shore up the D.

[shmenguin]

hopefully everyone's right about niskanen.

[thehockeyguru]

Trade Martin, Sign Gill and Gaustad.

Orpik - Michalek
Letang - Despres
Niskanen - Morrow

One guy out of six is somewhat good at moving dudes away from the front of the net. Depress.

By moving our young D into the lineup that frees up a lot of cap space. I'd be fine with trading Martin, Michalek and even Orpik, letting Niskanen walk and signing a guy/guys like you mentioned.

Build around:

Letang - ???
Despres - ???
Morrow - ???

[Rylan]

Trade Martin, Sign Gill and Gaustad.

Orpik - Michalek
Letang - Despres
Niskanen - Morrow

One guy out of six is somewhat good at moving dudes away from the front of the net. Depress.

By moving our young D into the lineup that frees up a lot of cap space. I'd be fine with trading Martin, Michalek and even Orpik, letting Niskanen walk and signing a guy/guys like you mentioned.

Build around:

Letang - ???
Despres - ???
Morrow - ???

That is putting way too much on 2 rookies. Morrow I doubt will be full time until (at the earliest) 2013-2014. Plus, Orpik is rather inexpensive for a top 4 defenseman and we can't get rid of his physicality without replacing it. Orpik is more valuable to the Pens than he is a tradeable asset. Martin is the only defenseman that is an odd man out. The Pens no longer need his puck movement since they have so many defensive players with that ability.

[wondermoose]

I think the only thing the Pens need is a defenseman that doesn't need to be coached. Orpik is the closest thing to that currently on the team and we all know he's got his shortcomings, although he hasn't been healthy for years and needs a full offseason to train without any surgeries. Engelland sorta fills that role, but his game declined greatly near the end of the season. Maybe a conditioning thing with him to account for all the extra minutes he logged. Letang, Martin, Michalek and Niskanen are all high-maintenance defensemen. They don't have the same gameplan game in and game out, and Letang in particular needs to calm down and find his comfort spot.

Shea Weber. Make it happen, Shero!

[JoseCuervo]

I think the entire defense has regressed. I don't think simply bringing in new defensemen would fix all of these problems. People are quick to point out Martin, but the entire defense sucked. Orpik played his best when MT was coaching. Martin and Michalek were both great last season (and played great before signing with the pens). These aren't bad players, but they played bad for the pens last year. I think coaching is more of a problem than the actual players on defense.

[offsides]

I think the entire defense has regressed. I don't think simply bringing in new defensemen would fix all of these problems. People are quick to point out Martin, but the entire defense sucked. Orpik played his best when MT was coaching. Martin and Michalek were both great last season (and played great before signing with the pens). These aren't bad players, but they played bad for the pens last year. I think coaching is more of a problem than the actual players on defense.

Correct you are. Don't forget the last game. No Martin, but I sure didn't notice any great improvement in defense.

[Factorial]

Any chance the new CBA will have a buy out window as the last one did. That appears to be the best way of ridding the team of Martin (who I would like as a max 2.5M defenceman).

[npv708]

I think the entire defense has regressed. I don't think simply bringing in new defensemen would fix all of these problems. People are quick to point out Martin, but the entire defense sucked. Orpik played his best when MT was coaching. Martin and Michalek were both great last season (and played great before signing with the pens). These aren't bad players, but they played bad for the pens last year. I think coaching is more of a problem than the actual players on defense.

Correct you are. Don't forget the last game. No Martin, but I sure didn't notice any great improvement in defense.

I definitely agree, but with that said I think there are three players on the defense that are expendable, at least with regards to team needs. Orpik, Martin, and Lovejoy could all very well be traded and replaced with players for far less (Orpik and Martin anyways) who play a style better suited for the Penguins.

Although I will always like Orpik, the person, I feel he's really regressed defensively on the ice. Most specifically, he plays too far off the man on the opposition rushes into the zone. There were multiple instances when a player would get to the circles before Orpik made what could be considered a "defensive play." Additionally, Orpik has reverted to a problem during his early years with the Pens and that is taking himself out of the play to make/attempt a hit, leaving Letang or other partners back in no man's land with odd man rushes. I think Orpik is an extremely tradeable asset for the Pens at the same time, primarily because of his reputation for physical play.

Martin is a strange case. Prior to his time with the Pens, Martin was insulated in a system that preached defensive awareness and play, even from the forwards, meaning that he was primarily the main offensive defenseman on his team, while not having to worry as much about defensive responsibilities, as there were 4 other players on the ice concerned with that at most times. I'm not entirely sure how to describe Martin's solid play last year, but this year, he seemed out of most plays as they were happening. Not something you expect or want from a 5 million a year defenseman. I think Martin has a lot more value than most people give him credit for, but it may be a little unnecessary on the Pens, with Letang and Niskanen present on the blueline. A young team, looking for a veteran puck moving defenseman, could very well jump at the opportunity to get a player like Martin. A few teams that come to mind: the Oilers, Blue Jackets, the Wild, the Hurricanes, and even the Preds, depending on how the offseason goes for their blueline.

As far as Michalek goes, I'm still under the belief that he needs to stay with the Pens. Call it Scuderi syndrome. Let me explain... For a long time, I hated Rob Scuderi. I thought he was one of the worst defensive defenseman in the history of the Pens. If pucks weren't bouncing off of him and into his own net, he wouldn't have made a contribution to anyone on the ice during most games. Throughout this time, he happened to be paired with quite possibly my least favorite person in Pens history, Josef Melichar. Although I blamed Melichar for most everything, I thought Scuderi was pretty bad, if not Melichar's equal. After the Pens rid themselves of Melichar, Scuderi suddenly became a very useful piece. Needless to say, I was still not on his bandwagon. After being paired with Hal Gill, Scuderi showed that he was not only a useful "Piece" to the team, but that he was an extremely valuable player to their success. I really believe, from what I've seen from Michalek that he could definitely succeed if placed with the right partner.

Either way I think the Pens have to go to a much more defensive system for both their forwards and defense and put in the personnel on the defense to make it happen.

Look at the 2009 Defensive pairings:

Gonchar - Orpik
Letang - Eaton
Scuderi - Gill

Gonchar/Orpik and Letang/Eaton were a nice balance of OD and DD, but then we had a shutdown pairing of DD and DD.

This year's defense:

Letang - Orpik
Martin - Michalek
Engelland - Niskanen

Letang/Orpik, Martin/Michalek, and Engelland/Niskanen are a nice balance of OD and DD, but we lacked a true shutdown pairing and it showed.

[npv708]

To my last post. If we are able to trade Orpik, Martin, and Lovejoy, I think we really need to look at the defenseman in bold below:

All 2012 UFA Defensemen:

$4 million and over
Nicklas Lidstrom, Detroit Red Wings, $6,200,000
Michal Rozsival Phoenix Coyotes $5,000,000

Under $4 million
Dennis Wideman, Washington Capitals, $3,875,000
Pavel Kubina, Tampa Bay Lightning, $3,850,000
Jaroslav Spacek, Carolina Hurricanes, $3,833,000
Brad Stuart, Detroit Red Wings, $3,750,000
Filip Kuba, Ottawa Senators, $3,700,000
Barret Jackman, St. Louis Blues, $3,625,000
Jeff Finger, Toronto Maple Leafs, $3,500,000
Cory Sarich, Calgary Flames, $3,600,000
Willie Mitchell, Los Angeles Kings, $3,500,000
John Oduya, Winnipeg Jets, $3,500,000
Ryan Suter, Nashville Predators, $3,500,000
Matt Carle, Philadelphia Flyers, $3,438,000

Under $3 million
Bryan Allen, Carolina Hurricanes, $2,900,000
Bryce Salvador, New Jersey Devils, $2,900,000
Mark Eaton, New York Islanders, $2,500,000
Joe Corvo, Boston Bruins, $2,250,000
Hal Gill, Montreal Canadiens, $2,250,000
Radek Martinek, Columbus Blue Jackets, $2,200,000
Carlo Colaiacovo, St. Louis Blues, $2,125,000
Shaone Morrisonn, Buffalo Sabres, $2,075,000
Adrian Aucoin, Phoenix Coyotes, $2,000,000
Sami Salo, Vancouver Canucks, $2,000,000

Under $2 million
Greg Zanon, Minnesota Wild, $1,933,333
Kurtis Foster, Anaheim Ducks, $1,800,000
Chris Campoli, Montreal Canadiens, $1,750,000
Kurt Sauer, Phoenix Coyotes, $1,750,000
Sheldon Souray, Dallas Stars, $1,650,000
Nicklas Grossman, Philadelphia Flyers, $1,625,000
Milan Jurcina, New York Islanders, $1,600,000
Steve Staios, New York Islanders, $1,600,000
Matt Hunwick, Colorado Avalanche, $1,550,000
Brett Clark, Tampa Bay Lightning, $1,500,000
Francis Bouillon, Nashville Predators, $1,350,000
Randy Jones, Winnipeg Jets, $1,150,000
Shane O’Brien, Colorado Avalanche, $1,100,000
Matt Gilroy, Tampa Bay Lightning, $1,000,000
Scott Hannan, Calgary Flames, $1,000,000
Kent Huskins, St. Louis Blues, $1,000,000
Brad Lukowich, Dallas Stars, $1,000,000
Mike Lundin, Minnesota Wild, $1,000,000
Jim Vandermeer, San Jose Sharks, $1,000,000
Colin White, San Jose Sharks, $1,000,000
Under $1 million
Mike Weaver, Florida Panthers, $900,000
Sean O’Donnell, Chicago Blackhawks, $850,000
Steve Eminger, New York Rangers, $800,000
Mike Mottau, New York Islanders, $800,000
Sheldon Brookbank, Anaheim Ducks, $750,000
Sami Lepisto, Chicago Blackhawks, $750,000
Aaron Rome, Vancouver Canucks, $750,000
Tyson Strachan, Florida Panthers, $750,000
Dean Arsene, Phoenix Coyotes, $725,000
Matt Carkner, Ottawa Senators, $700,000
Derek Meech, Winnipeg Jets, $700,000
Derek Smith, Calgary Flames, $700,000
Alexander Sulzer, Vancouver Canucks, $700,000
Jason Garrison, Florida Panthers, $675,000
Tyler Sloan, Nashville Predators, $650,000
Jeff Woywitka, New York Rangers, $650,000
Dylan Reese, New York Islanders, $635,500
Garnet Exelby, Detroit Red Wings, $600,000
Zach McKelvie, Boston Bruins, $600,000
Nathan Oystrick, Phoenix Coyotes, $600,000
Mathieu Roy, Carolina Hurricanes, $600,000
Matt Smaby, Anaheim Ducks, $600,000
Garrett Stafford, Montreal Canadiens, $600,000
Under $600,000
Maxime Fortunus, Dallas Stars, $587,500
Joe Callahan, Montreal Canadiens, $550,000
Bruno Gervais, Tampa Bay Lightning, $550,000
Peter Harrold, New Jersey Devils, $550,000
Aaron Johnson, Columbus Blue Jackets, $550,000
Clayton Stoner, Minnesota Wild, $550,000
Nolan Baumgarner, Vancouver Canucks, $525,000
Brendan Bell, New York Rangers, $525,000
Sean Collins, Washington Capitals, $525,000
Mark Flood, Winnipeg Jets, $525,000
Dan Jancevski, Philadelphia Flyers, $525,000
Jay Leach, New Jersey Devils, $525,000
David Liffiton, Colorado Avalanche, $525,000
Zach Miskovic, Washington Capitals, $525,000
Richard Petiot, Tampa Bay Lightning, $525,000
Corey Potter, Edmonton Oilers, $525,000
Danny Richmond, Washington Capitals, $525,000
Bryan Rodney, Edmonton Oilers, $525,000
Dan Spang, Dallas Stars, $525,000
Sean Sullivan, San Jose Sharks, $525,000
Danny Syvret, St. Louis Blues, $525,000
Brennan Evans, St. Louis Blues, $512,500
Alex Henry, Montreal Canadiens, $512,500
Doug Janik, Detroit Red Wings, $512,500
Nathan McIver, Boston Bruins, $512,000
Mike Moore, San Jose Sharks, $512,500
John Scott, Chicago Blackhawks, $512,000

[JoseCuervo]

I think the entire defense has regressed. I don't think simply bringing in new defensemen would fix all of these problems. People are quick to point out Martin, but the entire defense sucked. Orpik played his best when MT was coaching. Martin and Michalek were both great last season (and played great before signing with the pens). These aren't bad players, but they played bad for the pens last year. I think coaching is more of a problem than the actual players on defense.

Correct you are. Don't forget the last game. No Martin, but I sure didn't notice any great improvement in defense.

Either way I think the Pens have to go to a much more defensive system for both their forwards and defense and put in the personnel on the defense to make it happen.

Sorry, npv, it was a long post, so I'm not going to quote the whole thing. Here's my problem, Martin, Michalek, Orpik, and Letang are all talented defensemen. None of them are bad. They all have a proven track record. Did they all just coincidentally have their own worst defensive season of the past 3 years this year? I'm not buying it. The only defensemen who had good seasons were nisky and engelland.

Orpik- You claim that he regressed this year. I agree, but why did it happen? Too old, injured, undisciplined, defensive system? A defensemen who has recently come into his own has no business naturally regressing. I think it was either the system or his own undisciplined play. I think coaching is at least partially to blame for his poor season.

Martin- You didn't watch many devils game when martin was on their team did you? He was never an offensive defenseman, but he bolstered that d-line and was tops in TOI for years up until he got injured the year before he left. The devils system didn't simply cover his weaknesses. I believe he is overpaid, but only by about .5-1mil. He played great last year, but I agree, he seemed lost at times out there this year.

Michalek- Another quality defensemen who has played great the past few years including a great first year with the pens, but for some strange reason decided to suck this year.

I'm sorry, but I really don't think the problem is strictly the players on the ice. When they were forced to play a more defensive system last year with all of the injuries to the top forwards, they did a phenomenal job. Orpik, Michalek, and Martin were all great in a defensive system. Which brings me to your point:

Either way I think the Pens have to go to a much more defensive system for both their forwards and defense and put in the personnel on the defense to make it happen.

I agree completely with the first half of this. They need a more defensive system. Shouldn't be too hard since they showed no defense against the flyers. However, I disagree on acquiring the personnel to make it happen. The Pens have quality defensemen; Orpik, Martin, Michalek, and even Letang have all shown the capability to play in a defensive system, and they have all done it with the pens. I don't think simply replacing them is going to fix the defense as it is. The pens could've had both Scuds and Gill this series, and I think they still would've gotten beaten. This defense was broken from the forwards to the goalie, and I don't think all of that blame rests on the shoulders of the defensive players. There were either severe discipline issues or severe coaching problems this year. Those won't be fixed by simply changing the players.

[Streaks House]

John Scott

[npv708]

John Scott

Not as a top-6 defenseman. I'm talking in a Boris Valabik-type role, but with the potential to fill in with injuries.

[MRandall25]

John Scott

Not as a top-6 defenseman. I'm talking in a Boris Valabik-type role, but with the potential to fill in with injuries.

Is Boris Valabik even playing in WBS?

[Streaks House]

John Scott

Not as a top-6 defenseman. I'm talking in a Boris Valabik-type role, but with the potential to fill in with injuries.

Had Valabik not dealt with injuries, do you think he would have been called up if he was healthy earlier in the season when the majority of the defense corps was stricken with ailments?

[npv708]

John Scott

Not as a top-6 defenseman. I'm talking in a Boris Valabik-type role, but with the potential to fill in with injuries.

Had Valabik not dealt with injuries, do you think he would have been called up if he was healthy earlier in the season when the majority of the defense corps was stricken with ailments?

Yeah. I really thought we'd see more of him, but he only ended up playing in a few games the entire season. I think he probably would've been around 8/9th on the depth chart.

[thehockeyguru]

Trade Martin, Sign Gill and Gaustad.

Orpik - Michalek
Letang - Despres
Niskanen - Morrow

One guy out of six is somewhat good at moving dudes away from the front of the net. Depress.

By moving our young D into the lineup that frees up a lot of cap space. I'd be fine with trading Martin, Michalek and even Orpik, letting Niskanen walk and signing a guy/guys like you mentioned.

Build around:

Letang - ???
Despres - ???
Morrow - ???

That is putting way too much on 2 rookies. Morrow I doubt will be full time until (at the earliest) 2013-2014. Plus, Orpik is rather inexpensive for a top 4 defenseman and we can't get rid of his physicality without replacing it. Orpik is more valuable to the Pens than he is a tradeable asset. Martin is the only defenseman that is an odd man out. The Pens no longer need his puck movement since they have so many defensive players with that ability.

I don't buy that rookie crap, why does everyone insist that it matters? If the kid can play hockey you put him in the lineup. There is no reason he shouldn't get the same chance Staal had. Give him that trial period then if he needs some seasoning send him back to Juniors.

[thehockeyguru]

Also with Bennett signed, it will be interesting to see how he makes the transition to professional hockey. He can be a guy who contributes in a year or two.

[DelPen]

Qualify Niskanen and Tangradi and keep Despres up full time:

FORWARDS
James Neal ($5.000m)/Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m)/Chris Kunitz ($3.725m)
Jordan Staal($4.000m)/Sidney Crosby ($8.700m)/Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m)/Dustin Jeffrey ($0.575m)/ Tyler Kennedy ($2.000m)
Eric Tangradi ($0.726m)/Joe Vitale ($0.550m)/Craig Adams ($0.675m)

DEFENSEMEN
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)/ Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Matt Niskanen ($1.500m)/Simon Despres ($0.840m)
Paul Martin ($5.000m)/Zbynek Michalek ($4.000m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)/Ben Lovejoy ($0.525m)

GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Brad Thiessen ($0.578m)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000;
CAP PAYROLL: $63,210,167;
BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster) $1,089,833


Anyone expecting to see something much different better not get your hopes up.

i don't know a ton about the intricacies of RFA negotiations, but that number for niskanen ain't happening. 2 or 3 years, 2-2.5 per would be my guess at the low-end of what he'll get. but shero does know how to keep his own players at good prices so who knows.

This is just the roster on July 1 that will fir under the cap. Assuming they will tender Niskanen and Tangradi the minimum 1-year deals. I'd love to see something longer term at a hit around $2.5 million provided they can dump Martin but I don't see how they will do it.

Fortunately it looks like Despres is ready and can easily repalce Niskaken's #5 minutes but I am still hoping Niskanen can replace martin's top 4 minutes. If Niskaken is moved I'd expect two of Strait, Bortuzzo and Lovejoy to stick.

That still only frees up another $700K though, not enough for a serious impact. Like it or not Staal is your imnpact winger if we want one.