Food for thought

[darkstar57]

From empty netters

The Red Wings are arguably the best organization in the entire NHL. But they went six years between their most two recent championships in 2002 and 2008. They don't win it every year. In fact, they don't even get past the first round every year. In the three years following their 2002 title, they went out in the first round twice and the second round once.

http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/empty-netters/33962-the-morning-after-04-24-12

Very good piece, i completely forgot about the red wings struggle and how everyone wrote them after 2002. When you have a strong franchise not winning every year sucks but but the NHL salary cap does bring parity into the league. There are a lot of good teams out there and fortunes change from year to year.

a loss like this makes everyone look at the mirror and try a little harder. i fully except a deep playoff run next year.

[Tico Rick]

You're being too sensible, darkstar. You need to be more .

[BurghersAndDogsSports]

From empty netters

The Red Wings are arguably the best organization in the entire NHL. But they went six years between their most two recent championships in 2002 and 2008. They don't win it every year. In fact, they don't even get past the first round every year. In the three years following their 2002 title, they went out in the first round twice and the second round once.

http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/empty-netters/33962-the-morning-after-04-24-12

Very good piece, i completely forgot about the red wings struggle and how everyone wrote them after 2002. When you have a strong franchise not winning every year sucks but but the NHL salary cap does bring parity into the league. There are a lot of good teams out there and fortunes change from year to year.

a loss like this makes everyone look at the mirror and try a little harder. i fully except a deep playoff run next year.

I dont think anyone would disagree with that. But the real issue is what actually happened on the ice. We were terrible, absolutely terrible in this series.
Yes, the Blackhawks lost again in the 1st round but they actually played ok there series if you watched the games. I mean we gave up record amounts of goals.

Just saying. Can we come back from this? Sure, and probably will. But its not like people dont have reason to be concerned after it looks like 4 or 5 of our dmen
our going to be terrible and possibly untradable moving forward and all of our wingers except for Neal underachieved basically all year.

Not doom and gloom but not even comparisons either.

[Fire0nice228]

So dupuis underachieved? Kunitz too? I mean he only had 61 pts ... Matt Cooke with career year?


parity parity parity. Nothing in the NHL is a given, ever.

[Mr. Colby]

Not to much underachievement on this team for the first 82 games

[Hawkeynut]

I agree.. this is a group of guys who have not yet hit their true prime.

I think we will see a much more mature team next year, I think they needed this.

[BurghersAndDogsSports]

So dupuis underachieved? Kunitz too? I mean he only had 61 pts ... Matt Cooke with career year?
parity parity parity. Nothing in the NHL is a given, ever.

I really meant the entire body of work including the playoffs this year (Dupuis had some poor defensive plays and
Cooke provided little of what a playoff 3rd line needs to be).

I am not trying to analyze every player just pointing out that this year was different than the other losses
and in a major way.

Anyone who thinks they can recover from this without major changes is looking at it through black and gold colored glasses.

[raewhit]

But its not like people dont have reason to be concerned after it looks like 4 or 5 of our dmen
our going to be terrible and possibly untradable moving forward

Really? 4 or 5 of our defenseman are untradeable? Are you kidding or did I misunderstand your post? I can understand the Martin hate and to a smaller extent Michalek because of their contracts. Who else is untradeable? Nisky, Engelland, Orpik???

[BurghersAndDogsSports]

But its not like people dont have reason to be concerned after it looks like 4 or 5 of our dmen
our going to be terrible and possibly untradable moving forward

Really? 4 or 5 of our defenseman are untradeable? Are you kidding or did I misunderstand your post? I can understand the Martin hate and to a smaller extent Michalek because of their contracts. Who else is untradeable? Nisky, Engelland, Orpik???

I wasnt clear in the point (although we cant really trade Nisky right now I dont think cause of his status I could be wrong). But ZM and PM I cant imagine anyone taking them, I cant imagine Orpik fetching much after this season and playoffs/age and even if we trade DE it wont bring anything back.

I just dont think if we can trade anyone it will really help the team in what it needs unless we dump Orpik for little, save $3.5 or whatever for a tough winger and one of the young d-men is definitely 100% without a doubt ready to step up.

[DelPen]

But they went six years between their most two recent championships in 2002 and 2008

After they bombed in 03 and 04 they fired Dave Lewis. Funny that Babcock's Ducks beat them in 03.

There was no season in 2005.

06 lost to the eventual West Champs Oilers in 1st round under Babcock's first year
07 lost to the eventual West Champs Ducks in Conf Finals
08 Won the Cup
09 lost to Pens in Cup final
10 lost to Sharks in 2nd
11 lost to Sharks in 2nd
12 lost to Preds in 1st

So we have a rise and now a decline. If I was a Wings fan I'd be all for dumping Babcock.

[owtahear]

They also never had a goalie during that stretch that would be considered "franchise" save for 2002 when Hasek backstopped them to the Cup. Sure, he returned in 2006, but was 41 by then.

[darkstar57]

So dupuis underachieved? Kunitz too? I mean he only had 61 pts ... Matt Cooke with career year?
parity parity parity. Nothing in the NHL is a given, ever.

I really meant the entire body of work including the playoffs this year (Dupuis had some poor defensive plays and
Cooke provided little of what a playoff 3rd line needs to be).

I am not trying to analyze every player just pointing out that this year was different than the other losses
and in a major way.

Anyone who thinks they can recover from this without major changes is looking at it through black and gold colored glasses.

Cooke provided little of what a playoff 3rd liner? really? really?

i thought him-Kennedy and Staal (our third line) was the best line for us through the series. They where the only line who seemed to cycle the puck game in and game out trying to wear out the flyers.

I am not looking at this through black and gold colored glasses. Everyone saw philly blow up there team last year and now wants the same thing. Philly had two huge locker room cancers in richards and carter, they where tired of their partying ways. The only really negative report i have heard is stall is unhappy with his role, i don't blame him for that he really is coming into his own and its time to put him into the top 6 and figure out how to work it out.

[darkstar57]

Also the intent of this thread was not to talk about trades and getting ride of players etc. its to show other teams have been in the same position we are in and have come out of it

the bruins where up 3-0 and lost the series to the flyers and won the cup the next year, THAT ranks higher then us being outclasses by the flyers in terms of losing.

[BurghersAndDogsSports]

So dupuis underachieved? Kunitz too? I mean he only had 61 pts ... Matt Cooke with career year?
parity parity parity. Nothing in the NHL is a given, ever.

I really meant the entire body of work including the playoffs this year (Dupuis had some poor defensive plays and
Cooke provided little of what a playoff 3rd line needs to be).

I am not trying to analyze every player just pointing out that this year was different than the other losses
and in a major way.

Anyone who thinks they can recover from this without major changes is looking at it through black and gold colored glasses.

Cooke provided little of what a playoff 3rd liner? really? really?

i thought him-Kennedy and Staal (our third line) was the best line for us through the series. They where the only line who seemed to cycle the puck game in and game out trying to wear out the flyers.

I am not looking at this through black and gold colored glasses. Everyone saw philly blow up there team last year and now wants the same thing. Philly had two huge locker room cancers in richards and carter, they where tired of their partying ways. The only really negative report i have heard is stall is unhappy with his role, i don't blame him for that he really is coming into his own and its time to put him into the top 6 and figure out how to work it out.

Philly didnt blow up their team. They had 2 idiots and traded them and got insane return back and signed Talbot.

So we dont blow up the team, keep our 6 d-men, keep our effective 3rd line which includes ineffective penalty killers and Jordan Staal who was on the ice for 14 goals against in 6 games because they may have been our best in a series and had one good game? A good portion of the team needs blown up, its success is masked by the fact that we have 4 or 5 really good offensive players and one winning streak because our goalie played out of his mind. Come crunch time a lot the guys simply cant cut it and we are up against the cap.

Trading some ineffective players for nothing just to get cap relief is the only option next year to get what we need and I am not sure that is much of an option.

[SolidSnake]

But they went six years between their most two recent championships in 2002 and 2008

After they bombed in 03 and 04 they fired Dave Lewis. Funny that Babcock's Ducks beat them in 03.

There was no season in 2005.

06 lost to the eventual West Champs Oilers in 1st round under Babcock's first year
07 lost to the eventual West Champs Ducks in Conf Finals
08 Won the Cup
09 lost to Pens in Cup final
10 lost to Sharks in 2nd
11 lost to Sharks in 2nd
12 lost to Preds in 1st

So we have a rise and now a decline. If I was a Wings fan I'd be all for dumping Babcock.

Well, they probably lost cause of some bad bounces and obstruction, don't forget they had great regular seasons as well.

[darkstar57]

So dupuis underachieved? Kunitz too? I mean he only had 61 pts ... Matt Cooke with career year?
parity parity parity. Nothing in the NHL is a given, ever.

I really meant the entire body of work including the playoffs this year (Dupuis had some poor defensive plays and
Cooke provided little of what a playoff 3rd line needs to be).

I am not trying to analyze every player just pointing out that this year was different than the other losses
and in a major way.

Anyone who thinks they can recover from this without major changes is looking at it through black and gold colored glasses.

Cooke provided little of what a playoff 3rd liner? really? really?

i thought him-Kennedy and Staal (our third line) was the best line for us through the series. They where the only line who seemed to cycle the puck game in and game out trying to wear out the flyers.

I am not looking at this through black and gold colored glasses. Everyone saw philly blow up there team last year and now wants the same thing. Philly had two huge locker room cancers in richards and carter, they where tired of their partying ways. The only really negative report i have heard is stall is unhappy with his role, i don't blame him for that he really is coming into his own and its time to put him into the top 6 and figure out how to work it out.

Philly didnt blow up their team. They had 2 idiots and traded them and got insane return back and signed Talbot.

So we dont blow up the team, keep our 6 d-men, keep our effective 3rd line which includes ineffective penalty killers and Jordan Staal who was on the ice for 14 goals against in 6 games because they may have been our best in a series and had one good game? A good portion of the team needs blown up, its success is masked by the fact that we have 4 or 5 really good offensive players and one winning streak because our goalie played out of his mind. Come crunch time a lot the guys simply cant cut it and we are up against the cap.

Trading some ineffective players for nothing just to get cap relief is the only option next year to get what we need and I am not sure that is much of an option.

Sorry, every experts in the world agree they blew up their team last off season, it wasn't just the insane return and talbot. Outside of gerioux, briee and hartnell they complete overhauled there top 9 forwards, brought in a new goalie and signed lilja.

You really want to do the same thing with pens? trade everyone not named crosby and hope for the best?

Also, as pointed out in the otehr thread Matt Cooke was out second must effective PKer, not saying our defense doesn't need to be tinkered with

the point is we don't need to go drastic measure, we need to replace the complimentary parts of this team.

AND YOU MISSED THE POINT OF THE THREAD.

i fully except the guys to mature from this experience and come back hungrier and more determined next year, not trying to say we should do this and do that. I most likely 75% of our roster will be back next year and they need to show the hunger and fire

[jimjom]

I thought that in 2010 and 2011. I like optimism, not trolling you just doubtful until the wins come as regularly in April and May as they do in December and January.

[joker10277]

From empty netters

The Red Wings are arguably the best organization in the entire NHL. But they went six years between their most two recent championships in 2002 and 2008. They don't win it every year. In fact, they don't even get past the first round every year. In the three years following their 2002 title, they went out in the first round twice and the second round once.

http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/empty-netters/33962-the-morning-after-04-24-12

Very good piece, i completely forgot about the red wings struggle and how everyone wrote them after 2002. When you have a strong franchise not winning every year sucks but but the NHL salary cap does bring parity into the league. There are a lot of good teams out there and fortunes change from year to year.

a loss like this makes everyone look at the mirror and try a little harder. i fully except a deep playoff run next year.

It's a nice theory, but I don't ever remember the wings giving up 8 goals in a playoff game, the pens have done it 3 times in the last 2 years.

Wings might lose a series, but they don't get embarrased by the other team.

[BurghersAndDogsSports]

So dupuis underachieved? Kunitz too? I mean he only had 61 pts ... Matt Cooke with career year?
parity parity parity. Nothing in the NHL is a given, ever.

I really meant the entire body of work including the playoffs this year (Dupuis had some poor defensive plays and
Cooke provided little of what a playoff 3rd line needs to be).

I am not trying to analyze every player just pointing out that this year was different than the other losses
and in a major way.

Anyone who thinks they can recover from this without major changes is looking at it through black and gold colored glasses.

Cooke provided little of what a playoff 3rd liner? really? really?

i thought him-Kennedy and Staal (our third line) was the best line for us through the series. They where the only line who seemed to cycle the puck game in and game out trying to wear out the flyers.

I am not looking at this through black and gold colored glasses. Everyone saw philly blow up there team last year and now wants the same thing. Philly had two huge locker room cancers in richards and carter, they where tired of their partying ways. The only really negative report i have heard is stall is unhappy with his role, i don't blame him for that he really is coming into his own and its time to put him into the top 6 and figure out how to work it out.

Philly didnt blow up their team. They had 2 idiots and traded them and got insane return back and signed Talbot.

So we dont blow up the team, keep our 6 d-men, keep our effective 3rd line which includes ineffective penalty killers and Jordan Staal who was on the ice for 14 goals against in 6 games because they may have been our best in a series and had one good game? A good portion of the team needs blown up, its success is masked by the fact that we have 4 or 5 really good offensive players and one winning streak because our goalie played out of his mind. Come crunch time a lot the guys simply cant cut it and we are up against the cap.

Trading some ineffective players for nothing just to get cap relief is the only option next year to get what we need and I am not sure that is much of an option.

Sorry, every experts in the world agree they blew up their team last off season, it wasn't just the insane return and talbot. Outside of gerioux, briee and hartnell they complete overhauled there top 9 forwards, brought in a new goalie and signed lilja.

You really want to do the same thing with pens? trade everyone not named crosby and hope for the best?

Also, as pointed out in the otehr thread Matt Cooke was out second must effective PKer, not saying our defense doesn't need to be tinkered with

the point is we don't need to go drastic measure, we need to replace the complimentary parts of this team.

AND YOU MISSED THE POINT OF THE THREAD.

i fully except the guys to mature from this experience and come back hungrier and more determined next year, not trying to say we should do this and do that. I most likely 75% of our roster will be back next year and they need to show the hunger and fire

Ok fine, the flyers blew up their team, great.

And the pens have one "effective" pk'er in their top 9 forwards. Their 4th line is old or slow or both.
4 of their defensive players can't play in their zone. And their top 6 wingers can't help grind out games and other than Neal show only evidence of regressing next season due to age or the playoffs.

But this team ( that has already been to two cup finals and won a cup) and is full of veterans will mature next year and be hungry?

The pens had an inflated record do to incredible higher end talent and a goalie playing out of his mind. Other than the winning streak they had many poor stretches in the regular season. They need major personnel changes to win the cup, not a dose of mental medicine.

They need to retool a big part of their roster.

[darkstar57]

Ok fine, the flyers blew up their team, great.

And the pens have one "effective" pk'er in their top 9 forwards. Their 4th line is old or slow or both.
4 of their defensive players can't play in their zone. And their top 6 wingers can't help grind out games and other than Neal show only evidence of regressing next season due to age or the playoffs.

But this team ( that has already been to two cup finals and won a cup) and is full of veterans will mature next year and be hungry?

The pens had an inflated record do to incredible higher end talent and a goalie playing out of his mind. Other than the winning streak they had many poor stretches in the regular season. They need major personnel changes to win the cup, not a dose of mental medicine.

They need to retool a big part of their roster.

Yes they need mental medicine, Giroux went to laviolette in game 6 and said he wanted the 1st shift. He went out laid Crosby on his ass then scored, and they never looked back. The is hunger to win, that is passion, that is a winner mentality. Thats not somethign you can coach, you can't coach want and desire. We have a lot of proud players on this team. Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Orpik, Kunitz.

This defeat can prove better then any major roster change, We have the talent on this team to do things, i agree the 4th line is to slow. We need younger legs that can grind teams down. I agree somewhat on teh grit in the top 6, we need more balance, Malkins line had the bodies that could bang, Crosby's was more about speed and skill, thatneeds to balance out. Be it shifting Kunitz back to Crosby line and moving stall to play with malkin and neal. Or putting Staal with Dupius and Crosby.

We go out and get a third line center that allows stall to move into the top six. Cooke is still an effective third line player and PKer (even if you choose not to see it). and Kennedy is a little spark plugs that bangs bodies, cycles well and can scorer. Add a player like guastad and we still have the best third line in hockey.

Retooling the 4th line, get younger and bigger. Vitale - Tangradi - Jeffery. Thats a young 4th line that will hit people and has some skill to it

I have no problem with trading one of the Martin & Michelek combo, but not both, they are not bad players. A system change could do wonders. Resign matt Niskanen, i liked when we traded for him. He has high end talent and just need the focus off of him for him to grow into a good defensmen. He will be better next year, bring up despress and play him on the bottom pair and let him grow. Keep Lovejoy, he sucks yes, but he is a serviceable 7th defensmen and can play bottom pair if someome gets hurt. Bring in a vertern D men at the deadline next year to shore up the bottom pair. Reunite Orpik and Letang, Orpik has loss a slight step, Letang covers for him.

Sign a backup goalie, Johnson went from being a solid back up to sucking. Weird that it happened so quickly.

So the way i see it, one trade of a dmen and signing a solid third line center & back up goalie. That alone make us easy cup favorite next year.

Mental make up is a huge part of the game, its the reason why some teams play a complete 60 mins and others only play 40.

[BurghersAndDogsSports]

Ok fine, the flyers blew up their team, great.

And the pens have one "effective" pk'er in their top 9 forwards. Their 4th line is old or slow or both.
4 of their defensive players can't play in their zone. And their top 6 wingers can't help grind out games and other than Neal show only evidence of regressing next season due to age or the playoffs.

But this team ( that has already been to two cup finals and won a cup) and is full of veterans will mature next year and be hungry?

The pens had an inflated record do to incredible higher end talent and a goalie playing out of his mind. Other than the winning streak they had many poor stretches in the regular season. They need major personnel changes to win the cup, not a dose of mental medicine.

They need to retool a big part of their roster.

Yes they need mental medicine, Giroux went to laviolette in game 6 and said he wanted the 1st shift. He went out laid Crosby on his ass then scored, and they never looked back. The is hunger to win, that is passion, that is a winner mentality. Thats not somethign you can coach, you can't coach want and desire. We have a lot of proud players on this team. Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Orpik, Kunitz.

This defeat can prove better then any major roster change, We have the talent on this team to do things, i agree the 4th line is to slow. We need younger legs that can grind teams down. I agree somewhat on teh grit in the top 6, we need more balance, Malkins line had the bodies that could bang, Crosby's was more about speed and skill, thatneeds to balance out. Be it shifting Kunitz back to Crosby line and moving stall to play with malkin and neal. Or putting Staal with Dupius and Crosby.

We go out and get a third line center that allows stall to move into the top six. Cooke is still an effective third line player and PKer (even if you choose not to see it). and Kennedy is a little spark plugs that bangs bodies, cycles well and can scorer. Add a player like guastad and we still have the best third line in hockey.

Retooling the 4th line, get younger and bigger. Vitale - Tangradi - Jeffery. Thats a young 4th line that will hit people and has some skill to it

I have no problem with trading one of the Martin & Michelek combo, but not both, they are not bad players. A system change could do wonders. Resign matt Niskanen, i liked when we traded for him. He has high end talent and just need the focus off of him for him to grow into a good defensmen. He will be better next year, bring up despress and play him on the bottom pair and let him grow. Keep Lovejoy, he sucks yes, but he is a serviceable 7th defensmen and can play bottom pair if someome gets hurt. Bring in a vertern D men at the deadline next year to shore up the bottom pair. Reunite Orpik and Letang, Orpik has loss a slight step, Letang covers for him.

Sign a backup goalie, Johnson went from being a solid back up to sucking. Weird that it happened so quickly.

So the way i see it, one trade of a dmen and signing a solid third line center & back up goalie. That alone make us easy cup favorite next year.

Mental make up is a huge part of the game, its the reason why some teams play a complete 60 mins and others only play 40.

I honestly can not agree with much in your post. Expecting Letang to cover up for Orpik as a reason our team will get better, having Cooke, Kennedy, Tangradi, Vitale, and Jeffreys as 5 of our bottom 6 forwards, having Lovejoy as our 7th, Kunitz and Dupuis are not going to be better players next year, they are getting older......all this after what we saw we needed in these playoffs would make me not watch a game all year next year.

[Hawkeynut]

Last 4 cup champs out in the 1st round...
The three cup champs before them didn't even make the playoffs....

Just sayin'!

[BurghersAndDogsSports]

Last 4 cup champs out in the 1st round...
The three cup champs before them didn't even make the playoffs....

Just sayin'!

Dude, I agree with that but people are acting like that is the reason we lost. It just seemed pretty obvious to me the reason we lost is because we were not
good enough to win.

[darkstar57]

Ok fine, the flyers blew up their team, great.

And the pens have one "effective" pk'er in their top 9 forwards. Their 4th line is old or slow or both.
4 of their defensive players can't play in their zone. And their top 6 wingers can't help grind out games and other than Neal show only evidence of regressing next season due to age or the playoffs.

But this team ( that has already been to two cup finals and won a cup) and is full of veterans will mature next year and be hungry?

The pens had an inflated record do to incredible higher end talent and a goalie playing out of his mind. Other than the winning streak they had many poor stretches in the regular season. They need major personnel changes to win the cup, not a dose of mental medicine.

They need to retool a big part of their roster.

Yes they need mental medicine, Giroux went to laviolette in game 6 and said he wanted the 1st shift. He went out laid Crosby on his ass then scored, and they never looked back. The is hunger to win, that is passion, that is a winner mentality. Thats not somethign you can coach, you can't coach want and desire. We have a lot of proud players on this team. Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Orpik, Kunitz.

This defeat can prove better then any major roster change, We have the talent on this team to do things, i agree the 4th line is to slow. We need younger legs that can grind teams down. I agree somewhat on teh grit in the top 6, we need more balance, Malkins line had the bodies that could bang, Crosby's was more about speed and skill, thatneeds to balance out. Be it shifting Kunitz back to Crosby line and moving stall to play with malkin and neal. Or putting Staal with Dupius and Crosby.

We go out and get a third line center that allows stall to move into the top six. Cooke is still an effective third line player and PKer (even if you choose not to see it). and Kennedy is a little spark plugs that bangs bodies, cycles well and can scorer. Add a player like guastad and we still have the best third line in hockey.

Retooling the 4th line, get younger and bigger. Vitale - Tangradi - Jeffery. Thats a young 4th line that will hit people and has some skill to it

I have no problem with trading one of the Martin & Michelek combo, but not both, they are not bad players. A system change could do wonders. Resign matt Niskanen, i liked when we traded for him. He has high end talent and just need the focus off of him for him to grow into a good defensmen. He will be better next year, bring up despress and play him on the bottom pair and let him grow. Keep Lovejoy, he sucks yes, but he is a serviceable 7th defensmen and can play bottom pair if someome gets hurt. Bring in a vertern D men at the deadline next year to shore up the bottom pair. Reunite Orpik and Letang, Orpik has loss a slight step, Letang covers for him.

Sign a backup goalie, Johnson went from being a solid back up to sucking. Weird that it happened so quickly.

So the way i see it, one trade of a dmen and signing a solid third line center & back up goalie. That alone make us easy cup favorite next year.

Mental make up is a huge part of the game, its the reason why some teams play a complete 60 mins and others only play 40.

I honestly can not agree with much in your post. Expecting Letang to cover up for Orpik as a reason our team will get better, having Cooke, Kennedy, Tangradi, Vitale, and Jeffreys as 5 of our bottom 6 forwards, having Lovejoy as our 7th, Kunitz and Dupuis are not going to be better players next year, they are getting older......all this after what we saw we needed in these playoffs would make me not watch a game all year next year.

Ok, what would you do, you want to shoot down other peopele's ideas, lets hear yours

[BurghersAndDogsSports]

Ok fine, the flyers blew up their team, great.

And the pens have one "effective" pk'er in their top 9 forwards. Their 4th line is old or slow or both.
4 of their defensive players can't play in their zone. And their top 6 wingers can't help grind out games and other than Neal show only evidence of regressing next season due to age or the playoffs.

But this team ( that has already been to two cup finals and won a cup) and is full of veterans will mature next year and be hungry?

The pens had an inflated record do to incredible higher end talent and a goalie playing out of his mind. Other than the winning streak they had many poor stretches in the regular season. They need major personnel changes to win the cup, not a dose of mental medicine.

They need to retool a big part of their roster.

Yes they need mental medicine, Giroux went to laviolette in game 6 and said he wanted the 1st shift. He went out laid Crosby on his ass then scored, and they never looked back. The is hunger to win, that is passion, that is a winner mentality. Thats not somethign you can coach, you can't coach want and desire. We have a lot of proud players on this team. Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Orpik, Kunitz.

This defeat can prove better then any major roster change, We have the talent on this team to do things, i agree the 4th line is to slow. We need younger legs that can grind teams down. I agree somewhat on teh grit in the top 6, we need more balance, Malkins line had the bodies that could bang, Crosby's was more about speed and skill, thatneeds to balance out. Be it shifting Kunitz back to Crosby line and moving stall to play with malkin and neal. Or putting Staal with Dupius and Crosby.

We go out and get a third line center that allows stall to move into the top six. Cooke is still an effective third line player and PKer (even if you choose not to see it). and Kennedy is a little spark plugs that bangs bodies, cycles well and can scorer. Add a player like guastad and we still have the best third line in hockey.

Retooling the 4th line, get younger and bigger. Vitale - Tangradi - Jeffery. Thats a young 4th line that will hit people and has some skill to it

I have no problem with trading one of the Martin & Michelek combo, but not both, they are not bad players. A system change could do wonders. Resign matt Niskanen, i liked when we traded for him. He has high end talent and just need the focus off of him for him to grow into a good defensmen. He will be better next year, bring up despress and play him on the bottom pair and let him grow. Keep Lovejoy, he sucks yes, but he is a serviceable 7th defensmen and can play bottom pair if someome gets hurt. Bring in a vertern D men at the deadline next year to shore up the bottom pair. Reunite Orpik and Letang, Orpik has loss a slight step, Letang covers for him.

Sign a backup goalie, Johnson went from being a solid back up to sucking. Weird that it happened so quickly.

So the way i see it, one trade of a dmen and signing a solid third line center & back up goalie. That alone make us easy cup favorite next year.

Mental make up is a huge part of the game, its the reason why some teams play a complete 60 mins and others only play 40.

I honestly can not agree with much in your post. Expecting Letang to cover up for Orpik as a reason our team will get better, having Cooke, Kennedy, Tangradi, Vitale, and Jeffreys as 5 of our bottom 6 forwards, having Lovejoy as our 7th, Kunitz and Dupuis are not going to be better players next year, they are getting older......all this after what we saw we needed in these playoffs would make me not watch a game all year next year.

Ok, what would you do, you want to shoot down other peopele's ideas, lets hear yours

that is the problem, unless they can trade some of these guys or the CBA changes there is not much they can do. And I dont see a market for Martin, Orpik, Kennedy or Cooke with their salaries that would bring back any return. And even if we were able to dump them we have to assume we can sign everyone we want who is a FA.

I am just trying to prepare everyone, it might be a two year process to retool this team to be a legitimate cup contender. The guys that were ok are getting older too.