Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby spiritfan on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:56 pm

If there is no market for a widget then that widget is only worth what the limited customer base will pay it does not matter what the widget owner thinks his or her widget is worth but what a widget wanter is willing to pay supply and demand MAYBE it's better for the widget owner to keep the widget and use it for another year and let the expiration of said widget come to pass simple economics eh?
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:56 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:
ryman1566 wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
How the hell can you twist this into blaming Shero???


constant miss management of assets.

I have said it before. Shero either hits grand slams or takes one in the nuts. Having said that, i am not hopeless that we lose staal for nothing, but the situation we are in right now, we have a limited possibilites.



Who do you feel he has mis-managed? Just asking, not arguing


well i said assets. Cash is an asset. But from a player perspective, not real sure how you let moulson go for nothing. Not seeing the value of rob scuderi or hall gill.


Oops, you're not making sense again. Tried to keep Scuderi. Gill a depreciating asset that was a UFA. Some teams rent players for playoff help. Standard procedure.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Malkamaniac on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:57 pm

The only real trade Shero "mismanaged" was the Poni trade and it was fine because neither party ended up working out for either side.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:58 pm

I wouldn't even call that mismanged. I thought Poni would work here too. We gave up a zero-prospect in Caputi. Nothing wrong with that to be honest. Not ideal. But not mismanaged, IMO.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Hawkeynut on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:58 pm

pfim wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
well i said assets. Cash is an asset. But from a player perspective, not real sure how you let moulson go for nothing. Not seeing the value of rob scuderi or hall gill.


Geez, even I'm over Matt Moulson.


As for Rob Scuderi... had the Kings not won the cup, we would still think of him as overpaid for what he does.

Not taking anything away from Rob at all, but I think some folks really over inflated his tenure here. Great defenseman yes, worth $3m at the time? No. I still have no EFFING CLUE as to what people see in Hal Gill aside from his nice guy attitude and gigantic reach.

I do not see these as mismanaged assets. All teams loose guys from time to time, it is how the system works.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Malkamaniac on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:59 pm

mikey287 wrote:I wouldn't even call that mismanged. I thought Poni would work here too. We gave up a zero-prospect in Caputi. Nothing wrong with that to be honest. Not ideal. But not mismanaged, IMO.


That's about the only trade that can even come close to mismanagement lol.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Hawkeynut on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:00 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:The only real trade Shero "mismanaged" was the Poni trade and it was fine because neither party ended up working out for either side.


How? Where is Luca Caputi these days? It was a great read on a prospect. No loss there. Poni was a stop gap player not destined to be part of the core!
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby lemieuxReturns on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:00 pm

Hawkeynut wrote:
pfim wrote:Not really sure how Shero has mismanaged something that has yet to play out.


I guess to some Shero is supposed to circumvent the system/framework that all teams must follow.

Shero: "Hey Staal, I have a 10 year deal.. remember you are still an RFA."
Staal: "But I am not a RFA, I am a UFA"
Shero: "You are not a UFA, you are a RFA until next year, so you must sign this 10 year deal."
Staal: "OK Ray, I gotcha. Where's the pen?"
Shero: "No need Jordan, we just photocopied your signature from your last deal. All is good bro."
Staal: "Thanks Ray! Since, Gino got a winger and Crosby doesn't need one, can you get me a winger?"
Shero: "Sorry Jordan, you are a career 3rd liner, you can't call the shots around here. You will allways get the leftovers."
Staal: "OK dea..... sorry Ray. See you in September, or November.. or whenever we come back."



OR

Shero: Jordan, how you doing? You are a big part of our team since we drafted you but how do you feel about your long-term plans with us?

Jordan : I like it here

Shero: Yea, but do you see yourself signing here long term? Do you like playing thrid line center and getting no PP time?

Jordan: No not really. I actually hate the third line, and anyone with half a brain can see i can play some PP... and i mean more than 3 seconds that i normally get when sid and geno finally get off the ice from their nearly 2 minute shifts that dan allows them to take. speaking of dan, does he even know i am alive? Dan seems to value nearly anyone over me on the PP. And another thing, ever notice that when we are taking penalty shots during the regular season, Dan sends out the entire team and every AHL callup before even glancing my way?

Shero: Hmmmm. I see.



Shero to himself: I dont think i am going to be able to re-sign jordan in the summer of 2012. Maybe i actually should entertain the trade offers that multiple teams are RUMORED to be offering me.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Malkamaniac on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:01 pm

Hawkeynut wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:The only real trade Shero "mismanaged" was the Poni trade and it was fine because neither party ended up working out for either side.


How? Where is Luca Caputi these days? It was a great read on a prospect. No loss there. Poni was a stop gap player not destined to be part of the core!


I'm saying that's his only real fail as a trade that didn't work out for him. Every player he's traded for has worked out for him. Leopold even did until he got that concussion.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby IanMoran on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:01 pm

Tbh... If neal is worth a 6 year - 30 million deal, idk if Staal is worth 10 years - 60 mill...
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby meow on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:02 pm

This thread makes my brain hurt. How can some people be this dense?
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby IanMoran on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:02 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:
Hawkeynut wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:The only real trade Shero "mismanaged" was the Poni trade and it was fine because neither party ended up working out for either side.


How? Where is Luca Caputi these days? It was a great read on a prospect. No loss there. Poni was a stop gap player not destined to be part of the core!


I'm saying that's his only real fail as a trade that didn't work out for him. Every player he's traded for has worked out for him. Leopold even did until he got that concussion.

Yea, but I'd still do it again

It was one of those "low-risk / high-reward" type of things.

Just like Billy G, Sully, Comrie, Bourue

If they work out.. great. If they dont, who cares / didn't lose much
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Froggy on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:03 pm

pfim wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
well i said assets. Cash is an asset. But from a player perspective, not real sure how you let moulson go for nothing. Not seeing the value of rob scuderi or hall gill.


Geez, even I'm over Matt Moulson.


the hossa deal and the neal deal make up for not overpaying for scuds or gill, and not both being psychic and having a team bad enough so that an average player like moulson would get quality minutes
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby helmespc on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:04 pm

Sounds like the #2 is up for grabs.... and Howson is an idiot.... can we get him to do Staal for #2 straight up?
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Malkamaniac on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:04 pm

IanMoran wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:
Hawkeynut wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:The only real trade Shero "mismanaged" was the Poni trade and it was fine because neither party ended up working out for either side.


How? Where is Luca Caputi these days? It was a great read on a prospect. No loss there. Poni was a stop gap player not destined to be part of the core!


I'm saying that's his only real fail as a trade that didn't work out for him. Every player he's traded for has worked out for him. Leopold even did until he got that concussion.

Yea, but I'd still do it again

It was one of those "low-risk / high-reward" type of things.

Just like Billy G, Sully, Comrie, Bourue

If they work out.. great. If they dont, who cares / didn't lose much


I don't disagree with you at all.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby lemieuxReturns on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:05 pm

Froggy wrote:
pfim wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
well i said assets. Cash is an asset. But from a player perspective, not real sure how you let moulson go for nothing. Not seeing the value of rob scuderi or hall gill.


Geez, even I'm over Matt Moulson.


the hossa deal and the neal deal make up for not overpaying for scuds or gill, and not both being psychic and having a team bad enough so that an average player like moulson would get quality minutes


matt moulson
09-10 = 30 goals
10-11 = 31 goals
11- 12 = 36 goals

I would not say average in the least.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Froggy on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:05 pm

IanMoran wrote:Tbh... If neal is worth a 6 year - 30 million deal, idk if Staal is worth 10 years - 60 mill...

This is about where I'm at, too
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby ryman1566 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:06 pm

helmespc wrote:Sounds like the #2 is up for grabs.... and Howson is an idiot.... can we get him to do Staal for #2 straight up?



Not only could we get the #2, but probably Nash, and that stupid cannon they shoot off, as well!! :shock:
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:07 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:
mikey287 wrote:I wouldn't even call that mismanged. I thought Poni would work here too. We gave up a zero-prospect in Caputi. Nothing wrong with that to be honest. Not ideal. But not mismanaged, IMO.


That's about the only trade that can even come close to mismanagement lol.


Yeah, what the organization lacks in drafting ability (so it seems), it makes up for with keen trades. I mean, even the Nils Ekman and White Tiger deal was only for a pick...who cares that the goalie ended up being pinball machine when he grew up or something and Ekman scored every one of his goals that season in 4 minutes...I wouldn't call that mismanagement either. But maybe it explains why Shero hates Finns...?

Very trustworthy trader is Shero. Manages assets quite well, fair to his players also.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Rylan on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:07 pm

The point about Moulson is he is one of the few players on the Islanders capable of lighting it up. It took years for him to finally emerge as a goal scorer and it took a team that was weak enough to shove him on the top 6 to prove he can score.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Froggy on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:12 pm

Rylan wrote:The point about Moulson is he is one of the few players on the Islanders capable of lighting it up. It took years for him to finally emerge as a goal scorer and it took a team that was weak enough to shove him on the top 6 to prove he can score.


Yeah that's what I meant.


Also, I'm not high on him at all. I think if you put a player like Kennedy on a top line and a top unit pp for a whole year, he'd put up 30 goals too. And he's a 3rd liner on a good team. It's interesting to see as the Isles add more pieces, moulson's production stays the same.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby lemieuxReturns on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:14 pm

Froggy wrote:
Rylan wrote:The point about Moulson is he is one of the few players on the Islanders capable of lighting it up. It took years for him to finally emerge as a goal scorer and it took a team that was weak enough to shove him on the top 6 to prove he can score.


Yeah that's what I meant.


Also, I'm not high on him at all. I think if you put a player like Kennedy on a top line and a top unit pp for a whole year, he'd put up 30 goals too. And he's a 3rd liner on a good team. It's interesting to see as the Isles add more pieces, moulson's production stays the same.


I would take that bet. I mean, if you are saying if we put TK on the top line for three years, that one of those years he would score 30 then ok. But if you would say TK would score 30+ each of the three years, and each year actually increase in goal scoring as Moulson has, then i would take that bet.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Pitts on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:16 pm

pfim wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
well i said assets. Cash is an asset. But from a player perspective, not real sure how you let moulson go for nothing. Not seeing the value of rob scuderi or hall gill.


Geez, even I'm over Matt Moulson.

Some people seem to forget that Moulson bombed in LA too, and was picked up as an after thought by the Isles.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:16 pm

Moulson gets a bad rap around here. Quality finisher, gentlemanly player, loves to be in the league. Beneficiary of John Tavares? Surely. But this guy is a legit top-six forward it seems. Maybe he's not much better than a Ryane Clowe, Chris Kunitz type, but that's good enough. Quality player, he would have been afforded the same opportunity here. Better upside, better finisher, smarter than Kennedy.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby pfim on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:16 pm

Rylan wrote:The point about Moulson is he is one of the few players on the Islanders capable of lighting it up. It took years for him to finally emerge as a goal scorer and it took a team that was weak enough to shove him on the top 6 to prove he can score.


The issue with giving up Moulson was that this team was terrible and had no depth when he went unsigned.

What he's turned out to be (for the Islanders) is good for him, but he wouldn't be getting the same ice time on a good team.
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