Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Pitts on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:21 pm

pfim wrote:
Rylan wrote:The point about Moulson is he is one of the few players on the Islanders capable of lighting it up. It took years for him to finally emerge as a goal scorer and it took a team that was weak enough to shove him on the top 6 to prove he can score.


The issue with giving up Moulson was that this team was terrible and had no depth when he went unsigned.

What he's turned out to be (for the Islanders) is good for him, but he wouldn't be getting the same ice time on a good team.

You can compare his situation to Glenn Murray perhaps. When Murray was here, he flat out sucked. For whatever reason, he went on to become a major goal scorer. Who knew?? You win some, you lose some. That's the breaks.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby meow on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:22 pm

Shero was only GM for like 3 months when Moulson signed in LA. I bet Shero just wanted to jettison any iffy player he could and clean house a little bit when he got hired.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby lemieuxReturns on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:22 pm

Pitts wrote:
pfim wrote:
Rylan wrote:The point about Moulson is he is one of the few players on the Islanders capable of lighting it up. It took years for him to finally emerge as a goal scorer and it took a team that was weak enough to shove him on the top 6 to prove he can score.


The issue with giving up Moulson was that this team was terrible and had no depth when he went unsigned.

What he's turned out to be (for the Islanders) is good for him, but he wouldn't be getting the same ice time on a good team.

You can compare his situation to Glenn Murray perhaps. When Murray was here, he flat out sucked. For whatever reason, he went on to become a major goal scorer. Who knew?? You win some, you lose some. That's the breaks.



True. It would have been nice however to at least have given moulson the same shot glenn murray was given... that being a chance to at least skate on the ice.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby pfim on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:25 pm

Glen Murray was a former first round pick they gave up a 50 goal scorer for. Of course he was given a better chance.

He had to be one of the least coordinated players to ever score more than 5 goals in a season. Even when he was scoring 40 goals, he looked like poo.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby canaan on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:25 pm

went to be a goal scorer on the new york islanders. cmon dude.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Pitts on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:27 pm

canaan wrote:went to be a goal scorer on the new york islanders. cmon dude.

Everyone needs a dream, bro.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby lemieuxReturns on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:32 pm

canaan wrote:went to be a goal scorer on the new york islanders. cmon dude.


not real sure where its somehow logical that if you play on a bad team it is easier to score goals.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Rylan on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:36 pm

Its the idea that playing on a bad team affords you more ice time. Thus creating more opportunities to score. Moulson is on the Islanders who gave him the chance to be a huge part of their team. That is the idea behind why being on a bad team can inflate numbers.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:37 pm

As I mentioned earlier, the Pens position in trading while weaker doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. It's kind of like the old tale of the Zen Master...."we'll see." This could very well be something that opens doors the Pens couldn't have explored before or puts them in a stronger situation than they realize.

If we abide by the "we'll see" mentality...let's see what could potentially happen:

Scenario A:
Carolina now knows they can either be patient, wait the season out and then sign Staal since he's made it clear that Carolina is the only team he'd sign an extension with. Nothing in the world of sports is a given. Carolina waiting could hurt potentially hurt them. What if the Shero doesn't trade him, Staal plays in the top-six all season, has great success and the Pens make the Cup final and possibly wins the cup again.

That is a major game-changer. This gives the Penguins far more leverage and makes staying far more desirable despite him wanting to play with his siblings. Carolina now missed a chance and is back at square one.

What if Staal is traded to another team and LOVES it there. Carolina is now SOL.

Scenario B:
Carolina trade their 8th overall pick to the Pens for Jordan Staal. I think throwing in Sutter or any other significant roster player with the 8th overall at this point is a long-shot. Truthfully, I think the 8th overall pick is a stretch. I could see Sutter and a 2nd round pick as being more likely, but for sake of the conversation, let's say it's the 8th overall straight up. What does this do/mean for the Pens?

1. $5M freed up with the cap going up. This in-turn means the Pens have lots of money to spend.

2. This makes the Pens a player for more high-profile players. If they're offering $6M for Staal, there's nothing that says they wouldn't/couldn't become big players for some of the bigger UFA names:
Wingers:
$7M on someone like Parise, $4M on Doan or $3M on Ryan Smith. The looming CBA probably makes it less likely they'd attempt to sign Parise, however, Doan or Smith would likely only be a two year deal.
Centers:
Dominic Moore or Daymon Langkow for $1M to $1.5M on a 1 or 2 year deal.

3. The possibility of trading Martin. This in itself could free up $2 or $3M if the player they get in return makes $2 to $3M a year...and that could be for a solid 3rd line centerman.

4. Money freed up to grab Bryan Allen or other types of Dmen the Pens need.

5. The Pens get the 8th overall! Right now, it's looking like the top 10 picks are stellar.

Scenario C:

Other teams like Buffalo want Staal very badly and think bringing him in makes them instantly a playoff team. These type of teams will take him on as a rental with the idea of helping to change his mind on Carolina. What could/would a team like Buffalo offer?
-12th overall pick
-maybe Stafford, Hodgson, or perhaps Sekera? How bad do they want him?

Don't for a second think that teams like Anaheim, Buffalo, Dallas, or Calgary won't trade away a solid piece even as a rental. I know this goes again my own logic and what I've been saying wouldn't happen. But these are the wild card situations that may be a stretch, but that aren't out of the realm of possibility because teams in their positions just happen to make moves like this. While Staal isn't Sid, Ovechkin or Stamkos, you put him on teams like the aforementioned, and they become much more serious contenders. A player like Staal is the missing part to their puzzle and a good price.

Again, it may not be likely which I've been preaching this entire time, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

So, is this lack of leverage bad? Right now, yes...but we'll see.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Rylan on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:43 pm

I just want to point out Staal's agent stated he didn't want an extension right now. That doesn't mean that in August they don't agree to terms. As such, the Pens still have leverage in that they have an entire year to negotiate with him. If a team wants Staal, they still will have to pay for him.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby lemieuxReturns on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:43 pm

1. $5M freed up with the cap going up. This in-turn means the Pens have lots of money to spend.


How? First Staal is at $4 million a year cap hit. Plus if it is the sutter option for you scenario b, then we would be taking on his cap hit of 2.1 million.. essentially saving 2 million in cap hit, but getting a lesser talented third line center.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby pugilist13 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:45 pm

60 million over 10 years. Thats a nice chunk of change to turn down. I guess Staalsy doesnt want to be a third line center the rest of his career. Cant say i blame him...
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:52 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:
1. $5M freed up with the cap going up. This in-turn means the Pens have lots of money to spend.


How? First Staal is at $4 million a year cap hit. Plus if it is the sutter option for you scenario b, then we would be taking on his cap hit of 2.1 million.. essentially saving 2 million in cap hit, but getting a lesser talented third line center.


Sorry, that was actually I typo, I meant to hit $4M. But to answer your question, if you re-read my post, I said it was UNLIKELY they would now package a roster player with the 8th overall pick. I also said that if they wouldn't give up a 1st rounder, they may package a roster player with a 2nd round pick, but I was going with the scenario of us getting back ONLY their 8th overall pick.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby The Current One on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:59 pm

No way does Shero get even close to fair value for Staal. So, he has to keep him, and hope Staal signs a shorter deal. If that doesn't happen, and he walks next summer, at least Shero didn't have to take on a bunch of scrub players/prospects, and the money saved could be used on a free agent(s). If he is traded, for it to be even remotely close to fair value, here would have to be a first-rounder and a player who can step in now and have a significant impact.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:02 pm

Pitts wrote:
pfim wrote:
Rylan wrote:The point about Moulson is he is one of the few players on the Islanders capable of lighting it up. It took years for him to finally emerge as a goal scorer and it took a team that was weak enough to shove him on the top 6 to prove he can score.


The issue with giving up Moulson was that this team was terrible and had no depth when he went unsigned.

What he's turned out to be (for the Islanders) is good for him, but he wouldn't be getting the same ice time on a good team.

You can compare his situation to Glenn Murray perhaps. When Murray was here, he flat out sucked. For whatever reason, he went on to become a major goal scorer. Who knew?? You win some, you lose some. That's the breaks.


I disagree that he wouldn't be getting or received high minutes here. I mean our top wingers over the past years included Sullivan, dupper, talbot, etc. before Neal we had a huge hole.

Just saying I am sure he would have gotten a chance.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby pfim on Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:09 pm

Moulson had 14 PPG goals last season, getting 3 minutes/game on the PP. He would not get that on the Pens.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby farnham16 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:38 pm

Shero is most likely asking for way too much for Staal right now. I just hope his incredible love for him doesn't blind him to what is truly best for this team. And him walking next summer and us getting nothing for him would be devasting.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby KG on Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:39 pm

At this point I would take Ruutu or Sutter and the 8th overall pick for Staal...

I don't like how this whole situation is going down with Jordan and Carolina...

No wedding gift for you!
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:41 pm

Hypothetical: Jordan Staal stays all year and produces in line with his career projections. We win the Cup with him. And he walks for nothing. U still mad, bro(s)?
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Rylan on Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:43 pm

Staal for Lecavalier. That would be my dream trade lol
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby steelhammer on Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:43 pm

I wouldn't even expect a deal to be announced anywhere else but the NHL draft podium, given the circumstances. Patience.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Rylan on Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:48 pm

I don't expect a trade tonight.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby canaan on Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:50 pm

mikey287 wrote:Hypothetical: Jordan Staal stays all year and produces in line with his career projections. We win the Cup with him. And he walks for nothing. U still mad, bro(s)?

i wouldnt be mad.. this team is in win now mode. Staal is an excellent player and great in the playoffs.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby pfim on Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:53 pm

mikey287 wrote:Hypothetical: Jordan Staal stays all year and produces in line with his career projections. We win the Cup with him. And he walks for nothing. U still mad, bro(s)?


Nope. And that's a very realistic scenario.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Grunthy on Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:54 pm

mikey287 wrote:Hypothetical: Jordan Staal stays all year and produces in line with his career projections. We win the Cup with him. And he walks for nothing. U still mad, bro(s)?



Yeah, but that is because i only bought his jersey at the beginning of last season. haha. Maybe I should start buying jerseys of players I dislike, because every time I buy a jersey something bad happens or they are traded. I guess my next jersey will be a TK... :pop:
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