Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Pens4Life on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:55 pm

I really really think that trading one of the 3 centers is the last option possible in Shero thoughts.. As I said before I think Shero would trade some others players before them to be under salary cap.. especially Martin,Michalek,Orpik,even MAF..then maybe Geno,Sid or Jordan,.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby joker10277 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:05 pm

This is why I didn't like it when RS signed him to a 4 year extension, it took him right to UFA. Staal has all the leverage in the negotiations and his trade value is down because he is an UFA after next season. I thought it was dumb of RS not to get atleast one year of his UFA years when the deal was made.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby interstorm on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:05 pm

darkstar57 wrote:
interstorm wrote:I know it is going out on a limb here, but since there are already a million crazy "what if" scenarios - i figure i'll throw out my own...

what if crosby takes less than the 8.7 million he is currently signed for?


first off - i think that is 100% possible and i'd read that as him saying the team, with jordan on it, is more important than a single player. the way the team stuck up for sid this year, i wouldn't be shocked. in addition, i think taking a light pay cut (i'm not advocating sid playing for $3 million a year -- just a little less) would be a great way to fight off the silly cry-baby perception issues the media has invented - this would be a real unselfish act and how could anyone look at something like this and think anything other than, "wow...this guy is really a good person". by no means is it expected that crosby will take less (regardless, he already is a good person) and such an action should be initiated by sid only (or else then we'd hear the "crosby hates pittsburgh - will be going to boyhood favorite montreal" even more).

...but what if?


The only thing is the NHLPA would not be happy with him taking less. Crosby said he doesn't like long term contracts, but he might have to take one, 8 mil at 10 years (80 million) is something they might be fine with


...we heard that garbage last time -- he signed for 8.7 million and then there were plenty of other players who signed for lower than expected (agreed - many were these longer term contracts). besides - who do you think sid cares for more -- the NHLPA or the guys in the locker room?

toews: 6.5
stamkos: 8 with 5.5 in 15-16 to drop cap hit to 7.5
sedin(s): 6.1
perry: 5.3 cap hit due to declining amount every year

you look at the list below and you can easily see players that could have taken more but didn't. crosby owes the NHLPA nothing!
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/45156-THNs-Top-50-NHLers-as-voted-by-the-players-No-1.html


(also - let me add again i won't be angry at sid if he signs for the same or more -- i'm just saying that he is a part of this equation as well and there are plenty of unknowns in this situation...so all this talk of "such and such HAS TO happen or WILL happen" is just garbage. there are too many variables to consider at this time)
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Guinness on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:08 pm

Penspal wrote:and that sucks as he's growing into the player that I thought he would be.


It seems like we're just scratching the surface with him, too. I think he's got plenty of room to improve yet.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby darkstar57 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:11 pm

interstorm wrote:
darkstar57 wrote:
interstorm wrote:I know it is going out on a limb here, but since there are already a million crazy "what if" scenarios - i figure i'll throw out my own...

what if crosby takes less than the 8.7 million he is currently signed for?


first off - i think that is 100% possible and i'd read that as him saying the team, with jordan on it, is more important than a single player. the way the team stuck up for sid this year, i wouldn't be shocked. in addition, i think taking a light pay cut (i'm not advocating sid playing for $3 million a year -- just a little less) would be a great way to fight off the silly cry-baby perception issues the media has invented - this would be a real unselfish act and how could anyone look at something like this and think anything other than, "wow...this guy is really a good person". by no means is it expected that crosby will take less (regardless, he already is a good person) and such an action should be initiated by sid only (or else then we'd hear the "crosby hates pittsburgh - will be going to boyhood favorite montreal" even more).

...but what if?


The only thing is the NHLPA would not be happy with him taking less. Crosby said he doesn't like long term contracts, but he might have to take one, 8 mil at 10 years (80 million) is something they might be fine with


...we heard that garbage last time -- he signed for 8.7 million and then there were plenty of other players who signed for lower than expected (agreed - many were these longer term contracts). besides - who do you think sid cares for more -- the NHLPA or the guys in the locker room?

toews: 6.5
stamkos: 8 with 5.5 in 15-16 to drop cap hit to 7.5
sedin(s): 6.1
perry: 5.3 cap hit due to declining amount every year

you look at the list below and you can easily see players that could have taken more but didn't. crosby owes the NHLPA nothing!
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/45156-THNs-Top-50-NHLers-as-voted-by-the-players-No-1.html


That was those players first contracts, they could take less money. But the fact would be Crosby is in the prime of his career, the NHLPA would not be happy with him leaving money on the table and signing for less. They would feel the teams was influencing crosby to much, etc.. Crosby would ahve to sign a deal where his cap hit might be less but still make a good amount of money.

I wouldn't say its garbage on a contract renegotiation. IF i am Stamkos going in for a contract renegotiation the team easily can say, Crosby took less money on his next contract, so should you. Its a perception thing for the NHLPA,
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Pens4Life on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:19 pm

Crosby had 2 serious concussions,soo that should be very much considered in his next contract I think.. 3 year deal at most!? :?:
Stamkos didnt have any major injuries yet..
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby MayIsForHockey on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:28 pm

The ending of that Edmonton article is comical:

P.S. This trade can only happen, of course, if Staal is willing to sign here long-term. The Penguins would have to allow the Oilers to negotiate with Staal before the deal is done and the deal would have to be done after July 1, with the Oilers selecting the player that Pittsburgh wants.

Yah, no doubt.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Guinness on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:37 pm

Friendly reminder: blue text color is almost impossible to read when using the black/yellow screen setting.

Also, LOL at that "note". :lol:
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:43 pm

I still don't get where the $7 million thing comes from. That seems to entirely be a media creation. Staal just played at a career high 65 point pace and the cap is supposed to go down. Keep in mind that comes while he's insulated by the top two players in the league and getting better match-ups as a result. How does that turn into him being a possibility to make $7 million+ as a free agent?

The only thing out of this that makes any sense is that he doesn't want to be a third line center anymore. That's logical. He's good enough to be a player on a top line, should put up better numbers in such a role, and as a result can make more money. I don't blame him for not wanting to be a third liner his whole career.

It would be pretty rotten to me if the Pens end up trading him. They spent all these years developing him and someone else is going to enjoy the fruit of it? That'll be a shame if true and perhaps a sign that this era of Pens hockey really is starting to turn. That only makes the recent loss more upsetting.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby CERV96 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:45 pm

interstorm wrote:I know it is going out on a limb here, but since there are already a million crazy "what if" scenarios - i figure i'll throw out my own...

what if crosby takes less than the 8.7 million he is currently signed for?


first off - i think that is 100% possible and i'd read that as him saying the team, with jordan on it, is more important than a single player. the way the team stuck up for sid this year, i wouldn't be shocked. in addition, i think taking a light pay cut (i'm not advocating sid playing for $3 million a year -- just a little less) would be a great way to fight off the silly cry-baby perception issues the media has invented - this would be a real unselfish act and how could anyone look at something like this and think anything other than, "wow...this guy is really a good person". by no means is it expected that crosby will take less (regardless, he already is a good person) and such an action should be initiated by sid only (or else then we'd hear the "crosby hates pittsburgh - will be going to boyhood favorite montreal" even more).

...but what if?



NHLPA would not like this at all but all in all it's really up to Sid.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby CERV96 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:48 pm

Pens4Life wrote:Crosby had 2 serious concussions,soo that should be very much considered in his next contract I think.. 3 year deal at most!? :?:
Stamkos didnt have any major injuries yet..


Staal and Malkin have had injury issues as well. Do you think they will take a short extension or pay cut?
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Pens4Life on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:00 pm

CERV96 wrote:
Pens4Life wrote:Crosby had 2 serious concussions,soo that should be very much considered in his next contract I think.. 3 year deal at most!? :?:
Stamkos didnt have any major injuries yet..


Staal and Malkin have had injury issues as well. Do you think they will take a short extension or pay cut?


You cant compare those injuries to concussions,which could be career ending as happened to some others good players!?
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:05 pm

Pens4Life wrote:
CERV96 wrote:
Pens4Life wrote:Crosby had 2 serious concussions,soo that should be very much considered in his next contract I think.. 3 year deal at most!? :?:
Stamkos didnt have any major injuries yet..


Staal and Malkin have had injury issues as well. Do you think they will take a short extension or pay cut?


You cant compare those injuries to concussions,which could be career ending as happened to some others good players!?


Knee injuries can weaken the knees, leading to more knee injuries.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:07 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Pens4Life wrote:
CERV96 wrote:
Pens4Life wrote:Crosby had 2 serious concussions,soo that should be very much considered in his next contract I think.. 3 year deal at most!? :?:
Stamkos didnt have any major injuries yet..


Staal and Malkin have had injury issues as well. Do you think they will take a short extension or pay cut?


You cant compare those injuries to concussions,which could be career ending as happened to some others good players!?


Knee injuries can weaken the knees, leading to more knee injuries.


My point being, every player has to worry about injuries. Period. There's always a risk involved.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Guinness on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:11 pm

I think Shero will re-sign him, and I think it will be a pretty good deal - I'm thinking 5 to 5.5, 5.75 for 6 years, a la Neal. I think a lot of effort is put into finding an expanded role for him, whether it be a top six spot, or PP time.

I just don't see Shero trading Jordan Staal unless the deal would significantly improve the team.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Rylan on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:43 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Pens4Life wrote:
CERV96 wrote:
Pens4Life wrote:Crosby had 2 serious concussions,soo that should be very much considered in his next contract I think.. 3 year deal at most!? :?:
Stamkos didnt have any major injuries yet..


Staal and Malkin have had injury issues as well. Do you think they will take a short extension or pay cut?


You cant compare those injuries to concussions,which could be career ending as happened to some others good players!?


Knee injuries can weaken the knees, leading to more knee injuries.


While there is truth to this, hockey does not see nearly as many critical knee injuries as it does shoulder or concussion injuries. Before Malkin and DJ's injuries, the last Penguin I remember tearing an ACL was Janne Laukkanen way back when. But even still, injuries are injuries and any moment can be your last playing a sport.

Personally, you can not use past injuries as a reason to get rid of someone. If the player has shown that he is quite capable of playing despite past outcomes, he should not be evaluated based on those past injuries.

Example:

Who would have thought that Steve Sullivan would play more games than Jordan Staal?
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby columbia on Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:01 pm

Guinness wrote:
I just don't see Shero trading Jordan Staal unless the deal would significantly improve the team.


And that trade likely doesn't exist.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby TheHammer24 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:07 pm

If they can't re-sign him, I'd posit that the Pens are probably most likely to get the most value by just letting him play out his last year.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby knives of ice on Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:33 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:If they can't re-sign him, I'd posit that the Pens are probably most likely to get the most value by just letting him play out his last year.



i don't want Staal traded but they will know as soon after the CBA is resolved if they can sign Jordan. keeping him a full year and getting nothing for him would be very dumb.

anyone thinking Staal isn't worth 7million per year to someone isn't paying attention to salaries currently being signed and we are talking about a player that isn't yet in his prime. Staal is really the first superstar player in the salary cap era to have UFA status at such a young age - and that is the huge thing in his advantage he'll get paid alot more because of his age.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Staggy on Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:37 pm

Staal isn't a superstar. He may be on his way to becoming one but he certainly isn't one yet.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby no name on Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:42 pm

Staal will cost you no more than 5 million a season, if we give him Neal type numbers he will be happy and want to stay.

One person said they would rather trade Sid than Staal, got to agree with that, Sid will not retire on his terms, he will be forced to retire, and if you trade Staal, Geno is your only legit, center on the team. Don't be suprised if Sid isn't ready for the home opener, i just got a bad feeling.

But if you do trade Staal you have to make them take Martin also. That frees you up 9 million and then you can really get the players you need to build the team you want.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby SolidSnake on Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:47 pm

I hope they keep the same exact team as this past season as most suggest on here that way we can see what happens and see if this past season was a "fluke" or not.
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby scals37 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:38 pm

no name wrote:Staal will cost you no more than 5 million a season, if we give him Neal type numbers he will be happy and want to stay.

One person said they would rather trade Sid than Staal, got to agree with that, Sid will not retire on his terms, he will be forced to retire, and if you trade Staal, Geno is your only legit, center on the team. Don't be suprised if Sid isn't ready for the home opener, i just got a bad feeling.

But if you do trade Staal you have to make them take Martin also. That frees you up 9 million and then you can really get the players you need to build the team you want.

You have a "bad feeling" that sid won't be ready... based on what?
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby offsides on Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:52 pm

no name wrote: Staal will cost you no more than 5 million a season, if we give him Neal type numbers he will be happy and want to stay.

One person said they would rather trade Sid than Staal, got to agree with that, Sid will not retire on his terms, he will be forced to retire, and if you trade Staal, Geno is your only legit, center on the team. Don't be suprised if Sid isn't ready for the home opener, i just got a bad feeling.

But if you do trade Staal you have to make them take Martin also. That frees you up 9 million and then you can really get the players you need to build the team you want.


Staal told you this the last time you talked with him?
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Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby CERV96 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:16 pm

offsides wrote:
no name wrote: Staal will cost you no more than 5 million a season, if we give him Neal type numbers he will be happy and want to stay.

One person said they would rather trade Sid than Staal, got to agree with that, Sid will not retire on his terms, he will be forced to retire, and if you trade Staal, Geno is your only legit, center on the team. Don't be suprised if Sid isn't ready for the home opener, i just got a bad feeling.

But if you do trade Staal you have to make them take Martin also. That frees you up 9 million and then you can really get the players you need to build the team you want.


Staal told you this the last time you talked with him?


He must have talked to Sid's doctor as well.
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