Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Hawkeynut on Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:21 pm

I am still stuck with the core of Sid, Gino, Staal, Neal, Letang, Brooks and Fleury. Any deal involving any of those makes me :scared:

Staal and Neal are worth about the same IMO. Please cite me any center in the league with Staals pedigree making more than $5-5.5m. As was said before, the only way Staalsy moves is if Staalsy wants to move, it is not a cash/cap issue. I just don't see him leaving.
Hawkeynut
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,888
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:52 am
Location: Page 554 of the new CBA

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby wondermoose on Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:25 pm

The only way I'm okay with Staal going is if Shero can magically sign Shea Weber or Ryan Suter or someone of that mold. It will take Martin or someone else to leave as well, but that's the only way this team gets better defensively and all around. I know Staal is a horse, but he's in Gogo's position. He's got something we have in abundance (centers) and he can bring us something we sorely lack (a defensive defenseman).
wondermoose
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,900
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:18 am

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby CERV96 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:41 pm

Is it fun to speculate? Absolutely, but to be honest nothing is going to happen until a new CBA is going to be in place then the team will go from there.
CERV96
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,629
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:49 am
Location: It's poop again!

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby columbia on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:10 pm

Since this is all based on based on the hypothetical, Neal is so superior to Staal, that they would never consider moving him instead?

Interesting.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 45,875
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Pens15 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:25 pm

Have there actually been any "sign and trade" deals in the NHL since the current CBA came into effect? I know they happen in the NBA but I can't recall seeing a single on in the NHL.
Pens15
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,103
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:49 pm

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Pens15 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:28 pm

columbia wrote:Since this is all based on based on the hypothetical, Neal is so superior to Staal, that they would never consider moving him instead?

Interesting.


I think so. Neal is a 40 goal guy and I don't see Staal being that. I know he was on pace for 30+ this year but he also had that flukey high shooting percentage like in his rookie year.
Pens15
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,103
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:49 pm

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:29 pm

If Staal says he wants upwards of $7 million I would laugh in his face if I was Shero. The only reason he would get anything close to that is if a GM overpays for the Staal name and because he's a big bodied North American player. I wouldn't give him a dime over 5.5 and even that's pushing it. Despite what a lot of posters think, he is not our best defensive forward and with his current role could be replaced for much cheaper. The only way he sticks around is if he plays big minutes flanking our other superstars and gets some powerplay minutes, which he should. A young top-6 forward is already on our team and I see no need to trade him if he can play in that role.
DontToewsMeBro
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,202
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:31 pm

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:29 pm

Pens15 wrote:
columbia wrote:Since this is all based on based on the hypothetical, Neal is so superior to Staal, that they would never consider moving him instead?

Interesting.


I think so. Neal is a 40 goal guy and I don't see Staal being that. I know he was on pace for 30+ this year but he also had that flukey high shooting percentage like in his rookie year.


1 year is a fluke. 2 years is an emerging pattern.
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,728
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby columbia on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:30 pm

Pens15 wrote:
columbia wrote:Since this is all based on based on the hypothetical, Neal is so superior to Staal, that they would never consider moving him instead?

Interesting.


I think so. Neal is a 40 goal guy and I don't see Staal being that. I know he was on pace for 30+ this year but he also had that flukey high shooting percentage like in his rookie year.


That 40 means enough in relation to Staal's overall game to make the decision that easy?
Especially since they already have two 40+ goal players in the lineup?
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 45,875
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Pavel Bure on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:33 pm

columbia wrote:
Pens15 wrote:
columbia wrote:Since this is all based on based on the hypothetical, Neal is so superior to Staal, that they would never consider moving him instead?

Interesting.


I think so. Neal is a 40 goal guy and I don't see Staal being that. I know he was on pace for 30+ this year but he also had that flukey high shooting percentage like in his rookie year.


That 40 means enough in relation to Staal's overall game to make the decision that easy?
Especially since they already have three 40+ goal players in the lineup?

FYP
Pavel Bure
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,293
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:15 pm
Location: http://freebitco.in/?r=289635 get bitcoins

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Pens15 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:40 pm

columbia wrote:
Pens15 wrote:
columbia wrote:Since this is all based on based on the hypothetical, Neal is so superior to Staal, that they would never consider moving him instead?

Interesting.


I think so. Neal is a 40 goal guy and I don't see Staal being that. I know he was on pace for 30+ this year but he also had that flukey high shooting percentage like in his rookie year.


That 40 means enough in relation to Staal's overall game to make the decision that easy?
Especially since they already have two 40+ goal players in the lineup?


IMHO, yes. Just because the other elements of Staal's game can be replaced with a solid 3rd line center for a fraction of the price, but we all know how hard it is to find 40 goal wingers. Plus let's not act like Neal is a one-dimensional sniper. Dude brings it in many aspects of the game.
Pens15
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,103
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:49 pm

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby columbia on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:42 pm

I'm anti-Neal, in the least.
There just seems to be a lot of assumptions....mainly that Staal or Malkin or Crosby will be traded.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 45,875
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Pens15 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:46 pm

columbia wrote:I'm anti-Neal, in the least.
There just seems to be a lot of assumptions....mainly that Staal or Malkin or Crosby will be traded.


Well yeah, this is all theoretical obviously.
Pens15
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,103
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:49 pm

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby NJ5934 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:55 pm

Anyone know if Milan Lucic is a RFA or UFA this summer?
NJ5934
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,843
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:33 pm
Location: Toms River, NJ

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby RxBandit66 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:56 pm

I'm not sure any of the big three will be traded. But one of them (probably Staal) will have to move to wing.

Of course, it all comes down to what a GM is offering in return. In the case of Goligoski, the return value was just too good to pass up. I'd hate to see Staal go, but if the return is overwhelming, Shero would have to pull the trigger.

With Geno, an overwhelming offer would have to include established stars coming the other way, and the Pens would be in a similar situation in that they would likely not be able to fit the incoming players under the cap.

The key to this whole thing is getting Paul Martin off the books, somehow.
RxBandit66
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,814
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:49 am
Location: Kittanning

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby NJ5934 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:57 pm

NJ5934 wrote:Anyone know if Milan Lucic is a RFA or UFA this summer?


Wrong thread...my bad
NJ5934
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,843
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:33 pm
Location: Toms River, NJ

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby columbia on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:00 pm

NJ5934 wrote:
NJ5934 wrote:Anyone know if Milan Lucic is a RFA or UFA this summer?


Wrong thread...my bad


Not too off, however.
The Pens could have taken him after Staal, but they opted for Carl Sneep instead.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 45,875
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby DayWalker on Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:29 pm

I have no inside knowledge, so this speculation is only based upon observing NHL free agency, but I have to think that if the Penguins are able to retain Jordan Staal past next season, they are going to have to offer him the kind of money that he could get as a young UFA capable of playing as a first-line or second-line center elsewhere. Based upon how others appear to perceive him around the league, as well as the inflated contracts players can or do get in unrestricted free agency, I imagine the starting price for Staal will be $5.5 million per year unless Staal is willing to take below-market value.

Unless Staal is playing as a winger on one of the top two lines in Pittsburgh, I assume that he is either not going to be willing to sign here (I am sure that has been or will be made clear to Shero in due time), or the Penguins are going to be making a moronic decision to grossly overpay for a third-line center--i.e the Penguins would be paying him the same amount to play on the third line here that other teams would be paying him to play as a top-two center. In light of the team's other glaring needs, paying Staal $5.5 million or more to be a third-line center should be a firing offense, so I think he only gets that contract here if he is a top-six forward...

All that said, the WORST possible outcome would be for Staal to walk after next season and receive nothing in return. That was an understandable proposition with Ron Francis in 1998, but that cannot happen in this case.
DayWalker
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,745
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:35 pm
Location: Parts Unknown

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby farnham16 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:44 pm

Someone is getting traded. Whether its Staal or not. Someone will be moved.
farnham16
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,398
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:50 pm
Location: Trying to get to my game

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Coozman1 on Tue May 01, 2012 5:07 am

I see alot of people looking to acquire Weber or Suter, but gotta ask... do either fit this team under Bylsmas system?????
Coozman1
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:07 pm

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Guinness on Tue May 01, 2012 5:45 am

Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Dupuis, Kunitz, Neal.

Would anyone have a problem with some combination of the above making up the top two lines? Those would be two very, very solid lines that teams would have a real problem defending against. Call a meeting with Bylsma, Crosby, Malkin and Staal and lay it out there - who is switching to wing? Sign a traditional, checking 3rd line center and a couple of 4th line grinders. Move out Martin (not because he sucks but because of his $), sign another Hal Gill type - steady, not flashy. Add Despres to the lineup. Break out the champagne. :pop: ;)
Guinness
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,330
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:30 am
Location: At the pub

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby owtahear on Tue May 01, 2012 7:36 am

What most of you fail to acknowledge, it is NOT just the money, it is the role. Staal will never got top line money if he is a 3rd line Center. Don't you get this? You are all trying to lowball him because of his numbers, but those numbers are part and parcel a result of his role on the Pens (no PP time, 3rd line Center) that most every other team can give him an expanded role. Sure, some of you say "move him to a wing". But why should he move to a wing?

To me, the only options are as follows:

1) Meet Jordan's demands, realize the contract doesn't go into effect until the 2013 season. Then see what happens next year. Of Sid, Geno and Staal. If Sid makes it through healthy and productive, then you have to decide to trade either Geno or Staal.

2) Trade Staal this year. Edmonton is a great trading partner, possibly package a Martin, Staal and Harrington to try and bring back the #1, a young winger and Oscar Kleborn. It is a bold move, but Holmgren made moves like this the past year and look how they turned out.

But.....within 2 years, this 3 Center model will be done. You cannot afford it.
owtahear
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,289
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 9:02 pm

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Pensrock on Tue May 01, 2012 8:14 am

Just my opinion and I admit I am certainly no expert and I put this together in about 3 minutes so I am probably overlooking something...... but what I try to do is the following:
-Resign Staal to a James Neal type contract and give him a bigger role by putting him on a line with Malkin. I think that could get him signed here.
- Move Malkin to wing on Staal's line and fill the other wing with someone like Kennedy.
- Move Neal to LW on Crosby's line and fill the other wing with someone like Dupuios.
- Trade Kunitz.... main goal to free up cap space but I think he could get you a serviceable 3rd line player in return. I would like to keep Kunitz if it could be worked out but some decisions are going to be tough to make and this is one.
-Trade Martin for whatever.... again main goal to free up cap space.
- Trade Michelik for whatever... again main goal to free up cap space.

Trading Martin, Kunitz, and Michelik free up a good chunk of money for cap space. Fill one Defensive Role with Depres. He is ready for a full time gig. Then explore the FA market for a Hal Gil(not him specifically) type of defensive defenseman that you can sign for a reasonable contract.
Pensrock
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 370
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:11 am
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Pavel Bure on Tue May 01, 2012 8:22 am

Pensrock wrote:Just my opinion and I admit I am certainly no expert and I put this together in about 3 minutes so I am probably overlooking something...... but what I try to do is the following:
-Resign Staal to a James Neal type contract and give him a bigger role by putting him on a line with Malkin. I think that could get him signed here.
- Move Malkin to wing on Staal's line and fill the other wing with someone like Kennedy.
- Move Neal to LW on Crosby's line and fill the other wing with someone like Dupuios.
- Trade Kunitz.... main goal to free up cap space but I think he could get you a serviceable 3rd line player in return. I would like to keep Kunitz if it could be worked out but some decisions are going to be tough to make and this is one.
-Trade Martin for whatever.... again main goal to free up cap space.
- Trade Michelik for whatever... again main goal to free up cap space.

Trading Martin, Kunitz, and Michelik free up a good chunk of money for cap space. Fill one Defensive Role with Depres. He is ready for a full time gig. Then explore the FA market for a Hal Gil(not him specifically) type of defensive defenseman that you can sign for a reasonable contract.

How are you trading all those guys? Who fills the spot in the top 6/bottom 6? Who are you signing from FA? Because on top of everything else the Pens need you've just created a hole in the top 6 forwards, and two holes in the top 4 d-men which means the Pens have to find 3 d-men in free agency or rely on Lovejoy and a rookie Despres to eat up huge minutes.

As an aside I wish people would quit saying, "Trade so and so, then pick up a type of player" How about saying who takes the players, what you get back, and then who from free agency you're going to target. Saying "trade them and sign people" is so empty and has little room for discussion.
Pavel Bure
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,293
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:15 pm
Location: http://freebitco.in/?r=289635 get bitcoins

Re: Jordan Staal - perhaps the big story for this offseason

Postby Pensrock on Tue May 01, 2012 8:31 am

Pavel Bure wrote:
Pensrock wrote:Just my opinion and I admit I am certainly no expert and I put this together in about 3 minutes so I am probably overlooking something...... but what I try to do is the following:
-Resign Staal to a James Neal type contract and give him a bigger role by putting him on a line with Malkin. I think that could get him signed here.
- Move Malkin to wing on Staal's line and fill the other wing with someone like Kennedy.
- Move Neal to LW on Crosby's line and fill the other wing with someone like Dupuios.
- Trade Kunitz.... main goal to free up cap space but I think he could get you a serviceable 3rd line player in return. I would like to keep Kunitz if it could be worked out but some decisions are going to be tough to make and this is one.
-Trade Martin for whatever.... again main goal to free up cap space.
- Trade Michelik for whatever... again main goal to free up cap space.

Trading Martin, Kunitz, and Michelik free up a good chunk of money for cap space. Fill one Defensive Role with Depres. He is ready for a full time gig. Then explore the FA market for a Hal Gil(not him specifically) type of defensive defenseman that you can sign for a reasonable contract.

How are you trading all those guys? Who fills the spot in the top 6/bottom 6? Who are you signing from FA? Because on top of everything else the Pens need you've just created a hole in the top 6 forwards, and two holes in the top 4 d-men which means the Pens have to find 3 d-men in free agency or rely on Lovejoy and a rookie Despres to eat up huge minutes.

As an aside I wish people would quit saying, "Trade so and so, then pick up a type of player" How about saying who takes the players, what you get back, and then who from free agency you're going to target. Saying "trade them and sign people" is so empty and has little room for discussion.


How can you possibly give specifics on who to get back in trade scenarios. We have no idea what other GMs think of their players and what values they assign players.

As for filling the Defensive roles, Depres is certainly ready to play right now. He easily fills one of the vacated roles there. Resign Niskanen for a reasonable contract. And I mentioned trying to sign a Hal Gil type of defensemen in Free Agency. Not him specifically, but a veteran defensive defensemen that can be signed for a reasonable deal. Strait is fine as a 7th Defenseman.

As for the forwards, they will be fine with a Top 6 of say Crosby, Neal, Dupuious and then Malkin, Staal and Kennedy. That is plenty good for your top 2.

The bottom six probably needs some help with a free agent signing or two. But there is already a solid start with Cooke, Jeffries, Adams, Tangradi, etc...
Pensrock
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 370
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:11 am
Location: Pittsburgh

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: skullman80, Steve Dave and 8 guests

e-mail