Martin - options?

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Martin - options?

Postby Pens4Life on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:51 pm

With Martin already gone in our plans for next season Pens roster in all the trade talks,who do you guys think might take him,if..?
Which team is most likely to be our trade partner for him,who can afford him and who we can get in return? thanx..
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Pavel Bure on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:05 pm

No one. Martin will be here on opening day filling his role on the team.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby offsides on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:10 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:No one. Martin will be here on opening day filling his role on the team.


Yeah, I'm afraid that will be the case.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby penny lane on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:26 pm

We're going to train the lad!
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby darkstar57 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:28 pm



DONNA MARTIN GRADUATES!!!!!!


oops, wrong thread
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby meow on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:36 pm

I don't understand why 98% of Pens fans have Martin out the door.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby IanMoran on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:52 pm

meow wrote:I don't understand why 98% of Pens fans have Martin out the door.

Its so much easier to blame 1 person. Martin is that person
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby mikey287 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:54 pm

I'm typically pretty reasonable when it comes to trades I think and typically err on the side of conservative caution, especially with Shero who is a no frills type of GM...but let's just say, as both of the main pieces had bad seasons...

Paul Martin, Eric Tangradi and a mid-level pick or thereabouts
for
Ryan Malone

No editing, no changing, no nothing...would you do it? The Lightning aren't wild about Malone and his salary but they do like his size and his warrior attitude but they are concerned about his money, his injuries and the fact that he's getting surpassed on the depth chart by higher skill guys and they can probably find a cheaper version of him. They can insert size into their lineup with Tangradi, it also sweetens the pot as they do take on money in the deal (not as easy for them as it is for us). They don't like the idea of Paul Martin all that much, but given the quality of their defense recently, he'd be a good fit in a more passive system and he's a very good puck-rusher believe it or not and could allow the Lightning to exit the defensive zone more efficiently than they are now (which is a hit or miss proposition if MSL or Stammer doesn't do it).

I'm not sure if Yzerman would go for it (or Shero for that matter), but I'd say it's about the most effective way to get rid of Martin. I really don't think we're in a position to try to squeeze too much value out of Martin...I don't see a landscape where someone would give us a 4th round pick for him, ya know? And it's a shame, because he really is a good player - just not here. It's tough to gauge the value of a player like this really, ya never know what GM out there thinks, "ya know, I've seen him his whole career, I really like him, let's get him on the cheap" and actually throws a decent asset at us (a 3rd and a middling prospect, say)...but assuming that he has limited value, would you sweeten the pot for someone to take him in exchange for a contract back.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby meecrofilm on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:04 pm

IanMoran wrote:
meow wrote:I don't understand why 98% of Pens fans have Martin out the door.

Its so much easier to blame 1 person. Martin is that person


There is that thing called the salary cap too, and those players we have to re-sign (and those in the near future who will be due for significant raises). If he were playing -close- to his contract (like Michalek) then you bite the bullet and say he's still worth it. But at this rate...
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby TheHammer24 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:09 pm

I probably don't do that, Mikey. Close though. What does Malone add to the team over Sully or Dups? I'm not convinced Martin is going to be horrible next year or even that je was that bad this year.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Rylan on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:26 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:I probably don't do that, Mikey. Close though. What does Malone add to the team over Sully or Dups? I'm not convinced Martin is going to be horrible next year or even that je was that bad this year.


Size, net front presence, Uber badassness. Malone is a MAN.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Old Used Pylon on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:29 pm

This type of move is probably what it would take to get rid of Martin, but I wouldn't do it. The only way would be if the plan was to split Crosby and Malkin on the powerplay. Kunitz and Malone would then have the job in front of the net. Malone wouldn't help anything at full strength.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Guinness on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:31 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:I probably don't do that, Mikey. Close though. What does Malone add to the team over Sully or Dups? I'm not convinced Martin is going to be horrible next year or even that je was that bad this year.


I think Malone would add a LOT versus what Sullivan brings, and even some things that Dupuis doesn't bring. The biggest issue with Malone is his contract. But he brings a net front presence with size that this team lacks.

Despres has looked like he will make Martin and his 5 million expendable. I'm coming around to Rylan's line of thinking that this team can get more out of a bargain basement defenseman than what Martin brings with his contract size - someone like Hal Gill circa 2009, if not Gill himself.

Look at the defense the Pens won the Cup with:

Letang, Orpik, Gonchar, Scuderi, Gill, Eaton.

Yeah, I think it's time for Shero to rethink his blueline experiment. They won the Cup by having warriors up front and a no-name defense.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Mr. Colby on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:40 pm

I think there is a higher likelihood of Martin being on the opening night roster than Michalek. This has nothing to do with "tradeability" either.

I think Martin sucked, but his ceiling is much higher than what he showed, and they will hope that they can get him there. I thought Michalek sucked too, but his best-case scenario isn't much better than what he gave us.

I don't think either will be difficult for the Pens to trade. There are PLENTY of teams that will want a high-minutes defenseman. And NTC's aren't really that big of a deal. They're more of a "last line of defense" for players, so they don't have to get shipped off to Columbus
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Rylan on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:43 pm

Michalek is a monster. I thought he played well for most of the year.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Gaucho on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:53 pm

Rylan wrote:Michalek is a monster. I thought he played well for most of the year.


Me too.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby TheHammer24 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:04 pm

Rylan wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:I probably don't do that, Mikey. Close though. What does Malone add to the team over Sully or Dups? I'm not convinced Martin is going to be horrible next year or even that je was that bad this year.


Size, net front presence, Uber badassness. Malone is a MAN.


Size: but he doesn't use it that well five-on-five

Net Front: But he lacks neutral zone transition play of Sully and Dups. Indeed, Sully brings more to the PP than Malone, as Kunitz can play in front and neither can play point with Sully.

He's a badass, but oh well.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby farnham16 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:13 pm

Martin has value in this league. If the Pens want to move him and Martin agrees to it there won't be a problem finding a suitor.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Streaks House on Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:54 pm

To answer Mikey's question, I'd do it. Defense isn't a position of strength for the Pens based on what we saw this past season. But the pipeline of defense prospects is pretty healthy and this provides an opening to add there (or explore external options). Malone gives the Penguins something they've missed since...Ryan Malone.

I'll expand on Mikey's idea of Martin+ for Malone, which right now are toxic contracts for the Pens and the Lightning, swapping them for a change of scenery. An underperforming contract in exchange for another underperforming contract. This could very well be what it takes to unload Martin. Instead of Malone, are there any other underperforming forward contracts you'd swap for Martin in the $4-5M range?
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Staggy on Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:57 pm

I wouldn't do the Martin/Malone swap. The reason I would want to trade Martin isn't because he sucks. I think he's a good player. I would want to trade him because we have cheaper alternatives on the rise, and getting rid of that 5 million dollar salary could help us lock up the big 3 plus Letang.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Nizzy on Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:33 pm

Martin doesn't fit this team anymore and maybe the league.

If we move Martin that cap space helps us keep the big 3 and Letang like someone else mentioned. We need guys on under 3 Million dollar contracts on defense like Scuderi. This means move Martin, and let these guys like Despres, Bortuzzo, Strait play in the 4-7 spots on the team for the next 6 years. (Entry level + first contract) for all 3 of them will probably be under a few million per year.

Despres is 6'4"
Bortuzzo is 6'3"
Strait is 6'1"

These guys aren't overall physical defenseman, but their bigger bodies will help greatly compared to a Martin who wouldn't even throw a check in the playoffs.

Martin needs to go without question. The Obstruction is back in the game. We need bigger guys around MAF. The whole team defense was bad, it surely wasn't Martin. However Martin was the worst defense-man.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Pavel Bure on Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:35 pm

Wow Martin went from anchoring one of the top D in the league to out of the league in one season. You guys are funny.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby NJ5934 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:54 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:Wow Martin went from anchoring one of the top D in the league to out of the league in one season. You guys are funny.


You are kidding, right?

Martin was like a -14 three quarters of the way through the season....I would not call him the anchor of anything.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:09 pm

NJ5934 wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:Wow Martin went from anchoring one of the top D in the league to out of the league in one season. You guys are funny.


You are kidding, right?

Martin was like a -14 three quarters of the way through the season....I would not call him the anchor of anything.


Lest we forget last season?

And if you want to use +/-, he was a +9 this year. And last year.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Pavel Bure on Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:15 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
NJ5934 wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:Wow Martin went from anchoring one of the top D in the league to out of the league in one season. You guys are funny.


You are kidding, right?

Martin was like a -14 three quarters of the way through the season....I would not call him the anchor of anything.


Lest we forget last season?

And if you want to use +/-, he was a +9 this year. And last year.

Shhhhh don't educate the noobs.


LOL Martin is teh suck, he's not good enough for this league.
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