Martin - options?

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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Defence21 on Thu May 03, 2012 11:41 am

Nizzy wrote:
DesertPenguin wrote:
MarioLives wrote:So with all the talk about Malone being the tough guy with a big body who protected Malkin and Sid, can't staal or tangradi become this?


We've been waiting for this for Tangradi for some time. It has yet to materialize. Tochet and Stevens were bruisers on either side of Mario, but they were also pretty darn good at putting the puck in the net. ET hasn't shown the ability to do that at the NHL level.


Okay, this is what really frustrates me with the Tangradi comments.

Tocchet and Stevens played with Mario Lemieux consistenly for multiple seasons. That is line 1, 20 minutes a night.

Eric Tangradi has been nothing short of "ROTTING" away on the 4th line, under 6 minutes a night.

Not with a Sidney Crosby.
Not with Evgeni Malkin.
Not even with a Jordan Staal.

but with Craig. Adams.

So yet you sit there and said he hasn't produced at the NHL level. The kid isn't a 4th liner, and Bylsma won't even give this kid any top 9 minutes?

He was close to a Point per game status in the AHL in a top 6 role, with less talented centerman. Please feel free to draw me up a diagram on how Eric Tangradi can put the puck into the back of the net when hes playing with Craig Adams, Richard Park, and Arron Asham? When the 101 of that line is to dump the puck, and play defense first. How can a Power Forward mature at this level when he gets limited to 3. Maybe 4. Total shifts a night WITH COMPLETE SCRUBS?

I've seen Tangradi play once on a line with Crosby-Kunitz. It was a preseason game of I believe 2009. That line totaled 4 points. It was vs Toronto, but if you saw that game and didn't know hockey, you'd say wow he looked like the best player on the ice that night. Throwing checks left in right. I saw the kid, on the 4th line, go check Kovalchuk at the Devils blue line, knock the puck off him, take the puck, skate into the zone and set up a goal.

You can't do that consistently, on the 4th line, with 5 minutes a night, with CRAIG ADAMS.

I'm not saying Tangradi is great. I'm not saying he'll be a 20-20 guy. I'm not even saying he's a NHL talent. However how can anyone sit here and say that this kid has already gotten a legit chance is beyond me. HOW CAN YOU TAKE A TOP 6 FORWARD FROM THE MINORS AND PLUG HIM IN ON THE 4TH LINE AND EXPECT RESULTS? At 5 minutes a night or less. :roll: Please. It's garbage.

Tangradi looked, I'm not going to say great, but as a legit player in the top 9 versus the Flyers in game 4. His big body created space. He is slightly slow, so I think he would fit well with Staal. Cooke-Staal-Tangradi could be an interesting line next year. If I can say anything its that, he might not sure as many goals as Kennedy next year (20) however, I CAN GUARANTEE YOU...If he started on the 3rd line next year, HE WOULD NOT GO INVISIBLE FOR 6-7 GAMES AT A TIME LIKE TYLER KENNEDY'S 2.0 MILLION DOLLARS DO ALL THE TIME. You can't teach size.

Bylsma needs a reality check. Philly used youth to destroy the Pens. Game 4 and 5 they were their best with a younger lineup.

It's time for Despres next year. Tangradi top 9 next year. Possibly even Strait too. This team doesn't get another cup til we have some cheaper/younger guys on lower cap deals break through.

:pop: Didn't Tangradi have a decent primary assist in the first game he played vs philly? Give the kid some time. He's being managed worse than Alvarez for the bucos. It's SICKENING.

So please sir, if you get the time to reply, please explain to me what your expectations were for him on the 4th line, with craig adams, and under 6 minutes a night. He's a power forward that needs a play maker with him. He can go to the net and get the rebound but he doesnt play with anyone good enough to get it to the net consistently.

Didn't read your entire post, but I think I got the idea. Here's a simple answer from someone who wants Tangradi to succeed as much as or more than any Penguin fan. Players aren't and shouldn't be handed spots on scoring lines because they are/were highly touted or have "potential." Players must first prove capable of playing at an NHL level on the third or fourth line before working their way up the lineup. I highly doubt the Penguins are watching Tangradi play in practice and in games on the fourth line with Adams and are saying, "Well, he's not scoring goals, so he's not worthy of moving up." Instead, they're looking for aspects of his game that would make him a good (or bad) fit on a scoring line. If he doesn't show good qualities on the fourth line, why does he deserve not only to bump to the first or second line, but to bump someone else down the lineup? Sorry, it doesn't work that way -- and anyone who says he can't score a lot when he's on the fourth line really doesn't understand hockey. It's not about goals and assists when analyzing players. It's about how they play the game and how their game projects to an increased role with more talented players.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby shmenguin on Thu May 03, 2012 11:49 am

i think it's bad form to use his point totals as evidence towards anything. 4th line scoring is ridiculously circumstantial - even over a 40 game span.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby pfim on Thu May 03, 2012 12:00 pm

Thought Tangradi looked good towards the end of the season and in the playoffs. Think it bodes well for him, he's only 23, we all knew he wasn't close to a finished product when he was acquired.

I don't know if he'll progress further, but I don't think anyone should be down on him.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Pensrock on Thu May 03, 2012 12:08 pm

pfim wrote:Thought Tangradi looked good towards the end of the season and in the playoffs. Think it bodes well for him, he's only 23, we all knew he wasn't close to a finished product when he was acquired.

I don't know if he'll progress further, but I don't think anyone should be down on him.


I agree. I thought he looked better towards the end of the season as well. Hopefully he continues getting better and can make a meaningful contribution to the team next year. Would be great if he could fill one of the wings on the Top couple of lines.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby BigMcK on Thu May 03, 2012 12:11 pm

Defence21 wrote:Didn't read your entire post, but I think I got the idea. Here's a simple answer from someone who wants Tangradi to succeed as much as or more than any Penguin fan. Players aren't and shouldn't be handed spots on scoring lines because they are/were highly touted or have "potential." Players must first prove capable of playing at an NHL level on the third or fourth line before working their way up the lineup. I highly doubt the Penguins are watching Tangradi play in practice and in games on the fourth line with Adams and are saying, "Well, he's not scoring goals, so he's not worthy of moving up." Instead, they're looking for aspects of his game that would make him a good (or bad) fit on a scoring line. If he doesn't show good qualities on the fourth line, why does he deserve not only to bump to the first or second line, but to bump someone else down the lineup? Sorry, it doesn't work that way -- and anyone who says he can't score a lot when he's on the fourth line really doesn't understand hockey. It's not about goals and assists when analyzing players. It's about how they play the game and how their game projects to an increased role with more talented players.


In a different perspective, it's also kind of hard to judge a race car driver's abilities when all he ever gets to race with are Pinto's and Vega's. Let him run with a Mustang or Camaro (or faster car of your choice) a few times around the track and if he doesn't hit the wall, maybe it's time to let him run with higher horsepower cars.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Froggy on Thu May 03, 2012 12:23 pm

BigMcK wrote:
Defence21 wrote:Didn't read your entire post, but I think I got the idea. Here's a simple answer from someone who wants Tangradi to succeed as much as or more than any Penguin fan. Players aren't and shouldn't be handed spots on scoring lines because they are/were highly touted or have "potential." Players must first prove capable of playing at an NHL level on the third or fourth line before working their way up the lineup. I highly doubt the Penguins are watching Tangradi play in practice and in games on the fourth line with Adams and are saying, "Well, he's not scoring goals, so he's not worthy of moving up." Instead, they're looking for aspects of his game that would make him a good (or bad) fit on a scoring line. If he doesn't show good qualities on the fourth line, why does he deserve not only to bump to the first or second line, but to bump someone else down the lineup? Sorry, it doesn't work that way -- and anyone who says he can't score a lot when he's on the fourth line really doesn't understand hockey. It's not about goals and assists when analyzing players. It's about how they play the game and how their game projects to an increased role with more talented players.


In a different perspective, it's also kind of hard to judge a race car driver's abilities when all he ever gets to race with are Pinto's and Vega's. Let him run with a Mustang or Camaro (or faster car of your choice) a few times around the track and if he doesn't hit the wall, maybe it's time to let him run with higher horsepower cars.

but when he is in his pinto, racing against others driving pintos, he is still losing. i am all in favor of deflecting the martin hate thread into a tangradi hate thread, though. so whatever.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Defence21 on Thu May 03, 2012 12:57 pm

BigMcK wrote:
Defence21 wrote:Didn't read your entire post, but I think I got the idea. Here's a simple answer from someone who wants Tangradi to succeed as much as or more than any Penguin fan. Players aren't and shouldn't be handed spots on scoring lines because they are/were highly touted or have "potential." Players must first prove capable of playing at an NHL level on the third or fourth line before working their way up the lineup. I highly doubt the Penguins are watching Tangradi play in practice and in games on the fourth line with Adams and are saying, "Well, he's not scoring goals, so he's not worthy of moving up." Instead, they're looking for aspects of his game that would make him a good (or bad) fit on a scoring line. If he doesn't show good qualities on the fourth line, why does he deserve not only to bump to the first or second line, but to bump someone else down the lineup? Sorry, it doesn't work that way -- and anyone who says he can't score a lot when he's on the fourth line really doesn't understand hockey. It's not about goals and assists when analyzing players. It's about how they play the game and how their game projects to an increased role with more talented players.


In a different perspective, it's also kind of hard to judge a race car driver's abilities when all he ever gets to race with are Pinto's and Vega's. Let him run with a Mustang or Camaro (or faster car of your choice) a few times around the track and if he doesn't hit the wall, maybe it's time to let him run with higher horsepower cars.

No one is going to hand the keys of a Camaro or Mustang to someone who can't drive. Likewise, no one should hand the wings of Malkin or Crosby to someone who hasn't shown what is needed.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu May 03, 2012 1:38 pm

spiritfan wrote:Martin ain't going anywhere... get over it... some people are as conceeded as the Pens themselves and that's why they got bumrushed


Ain't.

conceeded.

applause.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby sil on Fri May 04, 2012 6:53 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
spiritfan wrote:Martin ain't going anywhere... get over it... some people are as conceeded as the Pens themselves and that's why they got bumrushed


Ain't.

conceeded.

applause.


I think you mean "uhhh, plaws" instead of applause.
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Re: Martin - options?

Postby no name on Fri May 04, 2012 8:13 am

Tangradi needs traded to a team where he can get top 6 minutes, as of now i think he could develop into a marginal 20 goal scorer. He has never really been given a shot on a top line here. I don't think his game translates into Dans system very well. If he was asked to muck and grind and get that big frame infront of the net i think he can do that. Just not on this team, our top 2 lines don't cycle often they are more skaters, Tangradi excels on a cycling line.
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