Shea Weber likes meatloaf

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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby pfim on Tue May 01, 2012 5:15 pm

Jasmine wrote:
pfim wrote:I'm not sure what Ovechkin has to do with Malkin. Scratch that. I am sure, and it's absolutely nothing.

Eric Staal for Malkin? People are nuts.

Russian superstars - both touted as best in league at times, MVP winners . . . need I go on?


They're nothing alike. If Malkin was Czech we wouldn't be having this discussion. I'm not entirely sure why we're having this discussion, though.
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby MRandall25 on Tue May 01, 2012 5:21 pm

Jasmine wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Last 20 years: Mario, Geno, St Louis.

If you go back further, there's more.

Who cares about more than 20 years ago???? It was a totally different game. Do I have to list the teams that won the Cup in those same years? Trust me, they don't match up except 2009 - again, which was Therrien's defense!


Uh, you gave me the names for the last 20 years. I gave you players who won the Ross and the Cup...

Geno wasn't the only one. Jagr won 2 Cups as well (but not in the same years as the Art Ross's). What's your point?
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue May 01, 2012 5:23 pm

sil wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:Could trade for his rights though.


Why would Poile do that when he could just wait on an offer sheet worth 3x as much in return?


No one will give up 4 first round picks for Shea Weber - it just won't happen.

Offer sheets are for guys that haven't been paid yet and teams over-pay them based on untapped potential (ala Thomas Vanek)... not guys who are already making 7.5 million

Besides, the only way Shea Weber doesn't sign in nashville is if he doesn't want to be there. Nashville has already shown the willingness to pay $7.5 million - what more could other teams offer that Nashville wouldn't match?

So case in point - if Shea Weber signs an offer sheet, it will obviously be multi-year. Why would he sign a multi-year offer sheet and risk Nashville matching it and him being stuck somewhere he doesn't want to play for the long-term?
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue May 01, 2012 5:25 pm

So back to my original point, if Poile doesn't think he can sign Weber long-term, he will trade him this summer. Otherwise, he gets another 1-year deal and he loses him for nothing next summer via UFA
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby Jasmine on Tue May 01, 2012 5:27 pm

DontToewsMeBro wrote:
Jasmine wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Last 20 years: Mario, Geno, St Louis.

If you go back further, there's more.

Who cares about more than 20 years ago???? It was a totally different game. Do I have to list the teams that won the Cup in those same years? Trust me, they don't match up except 2009 - again, which was Therrien's defense!


so your sample size (because pre-lockout was a different game by today's standards) is about 7 seasons. So you just discredited your own argument. :thumb:

btw - since you mentioned the last 7 seven years, the clutch and grab is back. League thinks this may slow down the game a bit and prevent some of the concussions. Mario retired the last time this happened. All the more reason to have tough 2-way players rather than the Malkin type. And, like Mario, clutch and grab does not suit Malkin's style. Again, I would like to keep all three guys, but if asked to chose, I would not let Staal go no matter what the cost.
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby penny lane on Tue May 01, 2012 5:30 pm

Luck, goaltending, defense and special teams wins cups. Shea Weber doesn't stop the pucks; pens would still be out with weber. Why isn't nasville winning ? They've got goaltending and defense.

Who can play defense in dan blysma system for 4 rounds of play offs?
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby Jasmine on Tue May 01, 2012 5:36 pm

penny lane wrote:Luck, goaltending, defense and special teams wins cups. Shea Weber doesn't stop the pucks; pens would still be out with weber. Why isn't nasville winning ? They've got goaltending and defense.

Who can play defense in dan blysma system for 4 rounds of play offs?

Hal Gill and Rob Scuderi, but that's ancient history.
Nashville is losing because goaltender Rinne is not having a good series, and good big defensmen DO clear pucks in front of the net (Scuds) and drive the other team's superstars nuts (Gill). Winning combo. Sorry, penny, I know you love Geno. I like him, too, but out too early 3 years in a row just requires some changes.:(
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby blurryhaze312 on Tue May 01, 2012 6:10 pm

Jasmine wrote:
DontToewsMeBro wrote:How many of those players won Stanley Cups for their team? Lemieux, Gretzky, Jagr, Forsberg, St. Louis, Crosby, and Malkin. Just because it wasn't in the same year as they won the Art Ross doesn't mean they weren't an integral part of their team's success in their respective Cup years. You don't trade Art Ross winners (let alone Conn Smythe/Hart winners) so you can get Shea Webber. Holy crap.

Flyers traded Richards and Carter for a goaltender. Let's see . . . who is still playing, Flyers or Pens?


Actually they traded Richards and Carter for a goaltender, Grossmann, Simmonds, Schenn, Voracek and Cotourier. That's about half of an entire team in exchange for two guys.
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby Rocco on Tue May 01, 2012 6:33 pm

pfim wrote:
Rocco wrote:
pfim wrote:
Rocco wrote:Hypothetically, would you rather have 4 first rounders over 4 years that each have at best a 50% of becoming a regular NHL player, or Shea Weber?


Probably the four first rounders. Not entirely sure Weber puts them over the top, I don't think the blueline needs a change that big.


Maybe, but you know what Weber can do. You have no idea what the 4 future first rounders will do. It's fun to think of every first rounder as a future all-star but that's not terribly likely. Fans tend to get way too enamored/attached to draft picks. This is without getting into the salary cap issues.


The future four first rounders aren't necessarily young players, though. They are assets that can be use to acquire other players.

And as you alluded to, you're swapping 4 first rounders for Weber and a $9 million cap liability (or whatever his contract becomes).

I don't think Weber is worth four first round picks, no.


Acquire other players...like an elite 2-way d-man in his prime?

If the cap weren't an issue, I'd do without blinking. It's difficult to get elite players without either drafting them with a top-10 pick or being really good/lucky with late round picks. The odds of the Pens drafting 4 players whose value equals Weber aren't good in my opinion based on Shero's drafts and the fact they're likely going to be 1st rounders at the end of the round. The Pens can't do it under the cap so it's a moot issue.

People become attached to the glittering potential of the 1st round pick that they are convinced any sort of trade of a pick is mortgaging the future. The Pens from 1995-1999 took in the first round Craig Hillier, Robert Dome, Milan Kraft and Konstantin Koltsov. Would anyone think Weber is less valuable than the 2012-15 equivalents of those 4?
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby Rocco on Tue May 01, 2012 6:35 pm

Jasmine wrote:
penny lane wrote:Luck, goaltending, defense and special teams wins cups. Shea Weber doesn't stop the pucks; pens would still be out with weber. Why isn't nasville winning ? They've got goaltending and defense.

Who can play defense in dan blysma system for 4 rounds of play offs?

Hal Gill and Rob Scuderi, but that's ancient history.
Nashville is losing because goaltender Rinne is not having a good series, and good big defensmen DO clear pucks in front of the net (Scuds) and drive the other team's superstars nuts (Gill). Winning combo. Sorry, penny, I know you love Geno. I like him, too, but out too early 3 years in a row just requires some changes.:(


I don't think you can really blame Geno for last year's failure. He's got blood on his hands for 2010, and he wasn't great this post-season, but 2011 isn't on him.
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby Rylan on Tue May 01, 2012 6:41 pm

I still don't even...

What is she trying to say really...?
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby blurryhaze312 on Tue May 01, 2012 7:08 pm

:lol:
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby Fire0nice228 on Tue May 01, 2012 8:32 pm

I cant believe there are Shea Weber and Ryan Suter threads on a Penguins page.

Spoiler:
I'm here for more LOLz, keep going!
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby Streaks House on Tue May 01, 2012 9:11 pm

Fire0nice228 wrote:I cant believe there are
Spoiler:
Zach Parise, Doan, etc...
, Shea Weber, and Ryan Suter threads on a Penguins page.

Spoiler:
I'm here for more LOLz, keep going!


Only a matter of time.
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby Willie Kool on Tue May 01, 2012 10:09 pm

Fire0nice228 wrote:
Spoiler:
I'm here for more LOLz, keep going!

If the Preds lose, it's time for the Shero Nashville Blockbuster.

Crosby, Martin, Fleury, Tangradi and Lovejoy for Weber, Radulov and Rinne.

Trade Michalek for picks and sign Gaustad and Moen.


Radulov - Malkin - Neal
Kunitz - Staal - Dupuis
Cooke - Gaustad - Kennedy
Moen - Vitale - Adams

Weber - Letang
Orpik - Despres
Engelland - Niskanen

Rinne
Thiessen


Spoiler:
:pop:
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby Jasmine on Tue May 01, 2012 10:25 pm

Rylan wrote:I still don't even...

What is she trying to say really...?

Rylan, I'll try to make my point one last time: Devils totally dismantled Flyers tonight without an Art Ross Trophy winner. If you don't get it, I give up.
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby Staggy on Wed May 02, 2012 1:18 am

Jasmine wrote:
Rylan wrote:I still don't even...

What is she trying to say really...?

Rylan, I'll try to make my point one last time: Devils totally dismantled Flyers tonight without an Art Ross Trophy winner. If you don't get it, I give up.


Well 29 of the teams in the league didn't have an Art Ross winner this year. Of course it's more likely for a team without the Art Ross winner to win the Cup. Every year, the team with the Art Ross winner has a 1/30 chance of winning the Cup. Yet, the team with the Art Ross winner has one 3 out of the last 20 years. Therefore, having the Art Ross winner on your team significantly increases your odds of winning the Cup.
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Wed May 02, 2012 2:42 am

We dismantled the Flyers for 10 goals one game with 2 on our team, what's your point? One second you're citing the Flyers dominance due to trading players who aren't in the same galaxy as Evgeni and Sid and the next you are using one game to prove a generalized point?

Either you are slightly delusional or the best troll in quite some time.
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby blurryhaze312 on Wed May 02, 2012 6:12 am

Yea. That's pretty absurd.

I'd rather keep the Art Ross winning type players than give them up. Those players give us the best chance to win the cup because not only are they incredible talents that can actually help on the ice, they put a ton of butts in the seats, making the team money so that they can spend to the cap and make the team around them better as well.

The Pens' problems this year is that they aren't built for the playoffs outside of their top guys. Little to no grit on D; a lot of old guys on the bottom lines who got out-skated by the bottom line players on another team (a lot of whom just so happen to be future top line players); poor special teams showing. This doesn't even mention the fact that you have a player in Talbot that came into this series pissed off and determined to show the Pens why he shouldn't have been let go. On top of all of this, we tried to out gun a team in the playoffs that was with us in the top 5 of Goals Scored during the regular season; not the best strategy obviously.

One of the biggest reasons that the Flyers were able to handle us was because they have so much top end talent on rookie/second contract. Their team is stacked, and a lot of guys weren't even playing due to injury. We'll see how good the Flyers are in a few seasons when they have to start dumping those guys.
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Re: Shea Weber...

Postby JS© on Wed May 02, 2012 11:22 am

Jasmine wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Last 20 years: Mario, Geno, St Louis.

If you go back further, there's more.

Who cares about more than 20 years ago???? It was a totally different game. Do I have to list the teams that won the Cup in those same years? Trust me, they don't match up except 2009 - again, which was Therrien's defense!


...and Marty St. Louis?
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Re: Shea Weber likes meatloaf

Postby Jasmine on Wed May 02, 2012 12:59 pm

blurryhaze312 wrote:
The Pens' problems this year is that they aren't built for the playoffs outside of their top guys. Little to no grit on D; a lot of old guys on the bottom lines who got out-skated by the bottom line players on another team (a lot of whom just so happen to be future top line players); poor special teams showing. This doesn't even mention the fact that you have a player in Talbot that came into this series pissed off and determined to show the Pens why he shouldn't have been let go. On top of all of this, we tried to out gun a team in the playoffs that was with us in the top 5 of Goals Scored during the regular season; not the best strategy obviously.

One of the biggest reasons that the Flyers were able to handle us was because they have so much top end talent on rookie/second contract. Their team is stacked, and a lot of guys weren't even playing due to injury. We'll see how good the Flyers are in a few seasons when they have to start dumping those guys.


See, I agree with this! Which center to trade is a different topic.
Signed,
Your favorite troll
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Re: Shea Weber likes meatloaf

Postby Gaucho on Wed May 02, 2012 1:32 pm

Interesting that some people seem to give MT more credit for winning the Cup than DB. And when I say interesting I actually mean something else.
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Re: Shea Weber likes meatloaf

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed May 02, 2012 1:36 pm

Gaucho wrote:Interesting that some people seem to give MT more credit for winning the Cup than DB. And when I say interesting I actually mean something else.


Courageous?
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Re: Shea Weber likes meatloaf

Postby penny lane on Wed May 02, 2012 1:40 pm

No, I think many of the new-age trolls left shorty after the pens season was over.

:D
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Re: Shea Weber likes meatloaf

Postby Rocco on Wed May 02, 2012 2:07 pm

Gaucho wrote:Interesting that some people seem to give MT more credit for winning the Cup than DB. And when I say interesting I actually mean something else.


MT deserves some credit. He took over a lot of the players Edzo had that refused to play defense or do basic things and had them into a well-drilled unit in short time. He made Michel Ouellet and Joe Melichar look plausibly competent. He even got Gonchar to care about defense for the first time in his career. I don't think he deserves more credit than DB, but he deserves more than a Stalinist airbrushing from history.
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