Warriors come out and playeh.....

[owtahear]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 447863684#

Watching the NHL Playoffs (and yes I am still watching) it is evident to me that the Pens lacked.....a certain battle toughness or battle level. I see these fierce contested games, guys throwing themselves in front of shots, going to the net, killing those in front of the net, finishing checks.....

Then I recollect the Pens series and past series's, and where is the battle? Where is the heart? What happened?

It is like the Pens have gotten way too enamored over their skill level and just think everygame is an All Star game or something. The PP still tries too much for the perfect goal instead of the dirty goal. The defense is way too prone to the other teams cycle. Where was the blocked shots? Chipping it deep. It is some of the simple stuff that teams are doing in RD 2 that the Pens haven't been doing much at all in the last few post seasons.

[Pavel Bure]

Agreed. That all comes down to coaching. If the guy can't motivate them to get up in the playoffs when can he motivate them?

[littlemoonboot]

Bless this thread for the Warriors reference.


CAN YOOOOOUUUU DIG IIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTT

[offsides]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2312941173447863684#

Watching the NHL Playoffs (and yes I am still watching) it is evident to me that the Pens lacked.....a certain battle toughness or battle level. I see these fierce contested games, guys throwing themselves in front of shots, going to the net, killing those in front of the net, finishing checks.....

Then I recollect the Pens series and past series's, and where is the battle? Where is the heart? What happened?

It is like the Pens have gotten way too enamored over their skill level and just think everygame is an All Star game or something. The PP still tries too much for the perfect goal instead of the dirty goal. The defense is way too prone to the other teams cycle. Where was the blocked shots? Chipping it deep. It is some of the simple stuff that teams are doing in RD 2 that the Pens haven't been doing much at all in the last few post seasons.

I approve of this post.

[KG]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2312941173447863684#

Watching the NHL Playoffs (and yes I am still watching) it is evident to me that the Pens lacked.....a certain battle toughness or battle level. I see these fierce contested games, guys throwing themselves in front of shots, going to the net, killing those in front of the net, finishing checks.....

Then I recollect the Pens series and past series's, and where is the battle? Where is the heart? What happened?

It is like the Pens have gotten way too enamored over their skill level and just think everygame is an All Star game or something. The PP still tries too much for the perfect goal instead of the dirty goal. The defense is way too prone to the other teams cycle. Where was the blocked shots? Chipping it deep. It is some of the simple stuff that teams are doing in RD 2 that the Pens haven't been doing much at all in the last few post seasons.

Agreed....and I also don't see this changing unless they make a coaching change or bring in some veteran leadership, or make a change to the core.

I think if Sid is healthy and ready to roll that will be a tremendous help as he leads by example and is their best player....

[CERV96]

[SolidSnake]

They need to come out to his music next season.

[penny lane]

There has to be a change in culture. from top to bottom, a failure. Pens knew who they would be playing a week to 10 days out. Strategy should have been constructed from scouting. The game 3 unraveling of all composure...
Ray Shero said he will take time to study what happened. I think changes could still happen in coaching.

[Eismann]

If they played the style they did during the rs when they were killing opponents on the goal tote and shot totals, then everything else takes care of itself. They had all the heart, guts, brains, braun, and ballz needed to run over all. And they stopped playing that way by choice or edict. Stretch pass, center ice dumps, passive zone coverage. Why some people thought that would work is a mystery and a damned shame.

Ptui.

[Henry Hank]

Pens aren't hungry anymore, they're satisfied by a Cup win from years ago and now regular season success is enough to feel happy about for them, apparently. I fear that this era of Pens hockey has reached mid-90's Pens stage. All offense/no defense, shaky goaltending, those making decisions appear to be losing touch, country club, draft hasn't produced much in years, may be on the verge of key guys (e.g. Staal) going away. Don't like it.

[farnham16]

Pens aren't hungry anymore, they're satisfied by a Cup win from years ago and now regular season success is enough to feel happy about for them, apparently. I fear that this era of Pens hockey has reached mid-90's Pens stage. All offense/no defense, shaky goaltending, those making decisions appear to be losing touch, country club, draft hasn't produced much in years, may be on the verge of key guys (e.g. Staal) going away. Don't like it.

I think they just don't play with that big chip on their shoulder that they use to. In 2007-2008, they were kicked in the teeth and beat up by Ottawa the previous year. They wanted to prove they were legit. They played with something to prove all year. 2008-2009, the Cup loss motivated them all year. Even though FHCMT lost his hold on the team, the guys never stopped playing with a chip on their shoulder. Once they got into the playoffs they simply weren't going to be stopped.

They have lost that chip ever since. They have continually come up small in the biggest moments and that is an indicator of the other guys wanting it more. The mental mistakes and lack of any consistency just tell me the team isn't focused enough at all. I never thought these Pens (Sid, Geno, Staal, MAF, etc) would let press clippings go to their heads but I believe that is exactly what happened. A lack of accountability has been mentioned here and I think that is absolutely a huge problem. No players were sat when they made mistakes (outside of Ben Lovejoy). Kunitz should have been sat at some point this year for all the ridiculous penalties he commited. Paul Martin should have been sat for obvious reasons. I'm not talking about for games at a time but at least for a few shifts or a period. That never happened. That sends a terrible message to the team. Shero and Bylsma have been far too passive with this group.

Coaching is a major problem for me. Bylsma put together some of the worst coaching I have ever seen in the postseason. I've talked about it so many times already, but I just don't think he is the guy for this group anymore. The Pens are simply wasting their tremendous opportunities right now. Yes, that one Cup was great and no one can ever take that away, but if all we get after is constant underperformances and early playoff exists, then this group will never be a big success story IMO.

[owtahear]

Well I am not coaching can give you that "want to", the warrior like mentality, that has to come within the players, the team themselves. Losing guys like Talbot, Rupp, Scuderi and the retirement of Guerin took alot of that away. But not sure what happened to guys like Orpik and Adams who also show that in the past. Their needs to be some shakeup, I agree they have gotten too comfortable, too concerned with their own skill levels.

As for coaching......it is hard to dispute the Pens getting schooled. The Flyers have basically spent the past few seasons designing a team to beat the Pens and Caps. Let's face it, during the regular season, players play. Coaches have some impact. Little film study and gameplanning goes into regular season games. Playoffs? Now, matchups and strategy are most important. Hell, when we played the Flys the last week, Disco should have had the team do something completely different, like go to the trap and left wing lock......just to throw off their preparation (okay I am kidding) but it is obvious one organEYEzation used those two games as scouting expeditions.

Oh yeah.......and Ray, I like Depres and Morrow, Harrington looks like a good pick also, but man you got to do better. Get some effing skill and size up front into this system please.

[KG]

Pens aren't hungry anymore, they're satisfied by a Cup win from years ago and now regular season success is enough to feel happy about for them, apparently. I fear that this era of Pens hockey has reached mid-90's Pens stage. All offense/no defense, shaky goaltending, those making decisions appear to be losing touch, country club, draft hasn't produced much in years, may be on the verge of key guys (e.g. Staal) going away. Don't like it.

I think they just don't play with that big chip on their shoulder that they use to. In 2007-2008, they were kicked in the teeth and beat up by Ottawa the previous year. They wanted to prove they were legit. They played with something to prove all year. 2008-2009, the Cup loss motivated them all year. Even though FHCMT lost his hold on the team, the guys never stopped playing with a chip on their shoulder. Once they got into the playoffs they simply weren't going to be stopped.

They have lost that chip ever since. They have continually come up small in the biggest moments and that is an indicator of the other guys wanting it more. The mental mistakes and lack of any consistency just tell me the team isn't focused enough at all. I never thought these Pens (Sid, Geno, Staal, MAF, etc) would let press clippings go to their heads but I believe that is exactly what happened. A lack of accountability has been mentioned here and I think that is absolutely a huge problem. No players were sat when they made mistakes (outside of Ben Lovejoy). Kunitz should have been sat at some point this year for all the ridiculous penalties he commited. Paul Martin should have been sat for obvious reasons. I'm not talking about for games at a time but at least for a few shifts or a period. That never happened. That sends a terrible message to the team. Shero and Bylsma have been far too passive with this group.

Coaching is a major problem for me. Bylsma put together some of the worst coaching I have ever seen in the postseason. I've talked about it so many times already, but I just don't think he is the guy for this group anymore. The Pens are simply wasting their tremendous opportunities right now. Yes, that one Cup was great and no one can ever take that away, but if all we get after is constant underperformances and early playoff exists, then this group will never be a big success story IMO.

Excellent post farnham....

The more I think about the playoff letdown the more I really think a change it needed behind the bench. It's just not OK to get destroyed like that. A shakeup is needed.

I also think the team from the top to the bottom does have a sense of arrogance to them as well. From Mario obviously, Shero and Bylsma have developed that over the last couple of years as well. They have to answer the question; Is winning 1 cup enough for them? as they have played in the playoffs (which is all that counts) they are answering that question with a big fat yes....

PS also getting very sick of MAF giving up Mr. Softie goals in the playoffs at the worst possible time! (another thread I suppose)....but MAF needs to be the best player every game in the playoffs and he is just not. Look at LA and Quick. He gives them a chance to win every night, and they are...MAF needs to get his head on straight...that really may not be as easy as said though...

[shmenguin]

I'd rank "playing smart" ahead of "playing like warriors" in the list of why the devils look better than us. And it's not even close.

[Fire0nice228]

In game 6, the Flyers had 40 blocked shots. 14 of their 18 skaters had atleast one block. Thats what it takes. I think in one of the games in the series the Pens had less than 10? Pathetic.

[littlemoonboot]

It pisses me off to no end to see all these teams out there and not the Penguins. I just hope they're as pissed off about it as I am.

[shmenguin]

In game 6, the Flyers had 40 blocked shots. 14 of their 18 skaters had atleast one block. Thats what it takes. I think in one of the games in the series the Pens had less than 10? Pathetic.

Eh. That was more a product of them game planning as opposed to their players selling out to make big plays. They collapsed like hell around the goal. Blocked shots will happen no matter how warrior-y you players are.

[offsides]

In game 6, the Flyers had 40 blocked shots. 14 of their 18 skaters had atleast one block. Thats what it takes. I think in one of the games in the series the Pens had less than 10? Pathetic.

Eh. That was more a product of them game planning as opposed to their players selling out to make big plays. They collapsed like hell around the goal. Blocked shots will happen no matter how warrior-y you players are.

If it was game plan and not effort, whatever their game plan was, it was sure better than ours.