Martin for Volchenkov?

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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby Pens15 on Tue May 08, 2012 4:12 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Pens15 wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:Didn't see the value in a 3rd pair, stay at home defenseman getting $4 million bucks. Not that I know personally, but I never think GMRS viewed Scuds as a 2nd pair guy. They viewed Michalek as an upgrade.


Yeah, and funnily enough, Scuds is currently on the first pairing with Doughty on a damn good defensive team that is still playing.


Hindsight is always 20/20.


Of course, and I know I sure as hell didn't call it. But GMs have to be judged by how well they can forecast the future, kind of like picking stocks. That's the nature of the job.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby Kaizer on Tue May 08, 2012 4:15 pm

as if nobody else can see what's been happening with martin.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby MRandall25 on Tue May 08, 2012 5:14 pm

Pens15 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Pens15 wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:Didn't see the value in a 3rd pair, stay at home defenseman getting $4 million bucks. Not that I know personally, but I never think GMRS viewed Scuds as a 2nd pair guy. They viewed Michalek as an upgrade.


Yeah, and funnily enough, Scuds is currently on the first pairing with Doughty on a damn good defensive team that is still playing.


Hindsight is always 20/20.


Of course, and I know I sure as hell didn't call it. But GMs have to be judged by how well they can forecast the future, kind of like picking stocks. That's the nature of the job.


Shero didn't sign them because he had 5 mil for two guys who ended up getting 3.4 and 2.25. Don't really know what's so hard to understand about that (generally speaking, not directly at you).

At that time, Scuderi and Gill were out of our price range. Period. Don't know why this is even being discussed in the first place.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby Fire0nice228 on Tue May 08, 2012 5:59 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Streaks House wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Jesus Christ how many times do we have to say M/M were signed the year after Scuderi and Gill signed elsewhere?


Why don't you see the fact that if Scuderi and Gill were retained there is no need to sign Martin and Michalek?


Didn't have the cap space at the time...


Pens had 5.5 mil in cap space going into the off-season. They were paying Eaton 2mil on top of that. If they wanted to keep Gill and Scuderi they could have.


Didn't see the value in a 3rd pair, stay at home defenseman getting $4 million bucks. Not that I know personally, but I never think GMRS viewed Scuds as a 2nd pair guy. They viewed Michalek as an upgrade.

I also don't think they expected to get so much out of Nisky, so Martin was a must-have a the time when defenders were at a premium. .



Niskanen? We just got him last season.

Also, re: Scuds/Gill.. they eventually signed for about 500k more than Shero had.. I'm inclined to believe he could have made it happen via them taking a haircut to stay on a Championship team with 2 of the best players in the world and a brand new building being built.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby Pitt87 on Tue May 08, 2012 8:32 pm

Fire0nice228 wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Streaks House wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:Why don't you see the fact that if Scuderi and Gill were retained there is no need to sign Martin and Michalek?


Didn't have the cap space at the time...


Pens had 5.5 mil in cap space going into the off-season. They were paying Eaton 2mil on top of that. If they wanted to keep Gill and Scuderi they could have.


Didn't see the value in a 3rd pair, stay at home defenseman getting $4 million bucks. Not that I know personally, but I never think GMRS viewed Scuds as a 2nd pair guy. They viewed Michalek as an upgrade.

I also don't think they expected to get so much out of Nisky, so Martin was a must-have a the time when defenders were at a premium. .



Niskanen? We just got him last season.

Also, re: Scuds/Gill.. they eventually signed for about 500k more than Shero had.. I'm inclined to believe he could have made it happen via them taking a haircut to stay on a Championship team with 2 of the best players in the world and a brand new building being built.



Right you are... was typing Nisky while thinking Gogo... Still, there were virtually no defensemen on the market that were in our sights, but looking back its puzzling why he was sought after as he was.

That said, blowing up the blue line might be the only choice. They won't win without more physical defenders.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed May 09, 2012 8:54 am

Its not hard to imagine why he was sought after, he's a solid defenseman in all zones, minus this year. He's just overpaid. Both regular overpaid and overpaid taking into account that he was a UFA.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby sil on Wed May 09, 2012 11:32 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Its not hard to imagine why he was sought after, he's a solid defenseman in all zones, minus this year. He's just overpaid. Both regular overpaid and overpaid taking into account that he was a UFA.


Just have to hope he can get back somewhere close to where he was in 2010-11.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby Pavel Bure on Wed May 09, 2012 12:05 pm

I mean this team with Martin and Michalek playing below their average level was nearly the best team in the league. There's plenty of room for improvement but the panic over their poor play is a bit misplaced especially for two guys who have proven through their careers in the NHL to be more than capable players.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby columbia on Wed May 09, 2012 12:09 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:I mean this team with Martin and Michalek playing below their average level was nearly the best team in the league. There's plenty of room for improvement but the panic over their poor play is a bit misplaced especially for two guys who have proven through their careers in the NHL to be more than capable players.


What changes are you expecting, that will lead to a different outcome next year?
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby MRandall25 on Wed May 09, 2012 1:52 pm

columbia wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:I mean this team with Martin and Michalek playing below their average level was nearly the best team in the league. There's plenty of room for improvement but the panic over their poor play is a bit misplaced especially for two guys who have proven through their careers in the NHL to be more than capable players.


What changes are you expecting, that will lead to a different outcome next year?


Maybe for Michalek and Martin not to have the worst season of their careers and to come back focused and ready to play, similar to last year?
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby sil on Wed May 09, 2012 2:26 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:I mean this team with Martin and Michalek playing below their average level was nearly the best team in the league. There's plenty of room for improvement but the panic over their poor play is a bit misplaced especially for two guys who have proven through their careers in the NHL to be more than capable players.


Yes, but we were/are QUITE far from being the best team in the playoffs. Quite, quite far.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby offsides on Wed May 09, 2012 5:11 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
columbia wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:I mean this team with Martin and Michalek playing below their average level was nearly the best team in the league. There's plenty of room for improvement but the panic over their poor play is a bit misplaced especially for two guys who have proven through their careers in the NHL to be more than capable players.


What changes are you expecting, that will lead to a different outcome next year?


Maybe for Michalek and Martin not to have the worst season of their careers and to come back focused and ready to play, similar to last year?


Should they try to refocus themselves or maybe the coaching staff should light a fire under their butts? Some accountability would be nice also.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby Jasmine on Wed May 09, 2012 5:51 pm

Still don't know how RS let Scuderi go . . . let somebody ELSE go!
That being said, I don't know what's so hard to understand about Martin and Mikalek. They were great D-men when they came here. Bylsma's system ruined them. If "Penguins hockey" doesn't change, we won't be winning any Cups for a long time. I'm not saying play 'boring' hockey. Mike Therrien's defense served the stars on this team pretty well in both 2008 and 2009 playoffs. That discipline has long since disappeared, along with Rob Scuderi.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby Staggy on Wed May 09, 2012 7:46 pm

How has Rob Scuderi come to be viewed as the second coming of Chris Chelios by some Pens fans? The guy was a decent defensive player who was absolutely awful at every offensive aspect of the game.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby mikey287 on Fri May 11, 2012 11:40 am

Staggy wrote:How has Rob Scuderi come to be viewed as the second coming of Chris Chelios by some Pens fans? The guy was a decent defensive player who was absolutely awful at every offensive aspect of the game.


Yeah, I liked Scuderi when he was here. I was happy he was out there when it was over. But he had two speeds with the puck, "turnover" and "icing" - it made it tough to generate transition with him on the ice.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby no name on Sat May 12, 2012 2:57 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Michalek and Martin were both signed before Volchenkov signed. Hamhuis was signed after both of them as well, and I think after even Volchenkov.


It could've been that Hamhuis and Volchenkov simply said "We don't want to be in Pittsburgh"...


I think this is correct, once free agency opened, and Shero knew he wasn't going to get his men (Hamhuis and Volcheckov), he learned after losing Hossa the year befor in Free agency, waiting and waiting for his answer then lost him. we were stuck getting Fedatanko and Satan. (but that worked out great for us.) He wasn't going to wait but was going to get out and find the best availible guys.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby brwi on Sun May 13, 2012 2:30 pm

shmenguin wrote:i perused the "Martin Signs" thread a few weeks ago. i don't think people were that thrilled about the signing at the time. there were a lot of "that seems like a lot of money" comments.


because it was, even for a UFA. A helluva premium for a middle of the road 2-way dman who isn't that great in either of the two ways and was also coming off a season ended by a major injury. While it was also a sign of the times as far as what NHL GM's will pay for a guy like Martin, Hamhuis, Blowmeister, etc. sometimes it's a lot better to be behind the curve. In this case, Shero paid way too much and it's been terrible ROI for a team right up on the salary cap ceiling.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby brwi on Sun May 13, 2012 2:34 pm

Staggy wrote:How has Rob Scuderi come to be viewed as the second coming of Chris Chelios by some Pens fans? The guy was a decent defensive player who was absolutely awful at every offensive aspect of the game.


Because he was very good in his own end defensively and great on the PK? Because Oprik makes more money and isn't too good and lacks basic hockey intelligence at times? Because the Pens are finding out that one-dimensional dmen may be better than half-azz 2-way dmen that cost 5mil a year? Because Scuds was part of a winning SC team? I can think of a bunch of reasons.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby Froggy on Sun May 13, 2012 2:40 pm

i have said it before and i will say it again. i'd rather have martin at 5 mil than scuderi at 3.4 mil
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby canaan on Sun May 13, 2012 3:10 pm

Continuing to say something doesn't give it more merit or validity. Scuderi is a way better value and it's not even negotiable.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby shmenguin on Sun May 13, 2012 4:12 pm

scuds doesn't take vacations throughout the season like martin. aside from what martin does or doesn't do on the ice, i don't like having guys on the team who don't feel the need to show up every night. i was happy we got rid of talbot for that reason.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby Froggy on Sun May 13, 2012 5:48 pm

canaan wrote:Continuing to say something doesn't give it more merit or validity. Scuderi is a way better value and it's not even negotiable.


Eh. I liked Scuderi when he was here... Not loved. He was really good on the pk, and of all our defensemen at even strength, he was certainly one of them...

saying that he is the defense's version of Craig Adams is an exaggeration, but its in the same line of thinking I have. He'd be a great guy to have... Just not for 3.4 mil.

Scuds is overvalued by most, and Martin is undervalued.

And I guess it is negotiable if someone is negotiating it.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby KG on Sun May 13, 2012 6:32 pm

Froggy wrote:i have said it before and i will say it again. i'd rather have martin at 5 mil than scuderi at 3.4 mil


Not after the year Martin had you wouldn't....Plus Scuderi only have 1 more year at $3.4mill. Martin has 3 more years at $5mill per...
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby MRandall25 on Sun May 13, 2012 11:12 pm

shmenguin wrote:scuds doesn't take vacations throughout the season like martin. aside from what martin does or doesn't do on the ice, i don't like having guys on the team who don't feel the need to show up every night. i was happy we got rid of talbot for that reason.


Could argue Scuderi was taking a vacation until his contract year.
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Re: Martin for Volchenkov?

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon May 14, 2012 10:30 am

Scuderi was certainly overrated a bit, especially after his heroics during the SCF. That being said, arguing that Martin at $5mm is a better deal/situation than Scuderi at $3.4mm is crazy talk.
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