Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already are

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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby farnham16 on Thu May 10, 2012 6:15 pm

If watching what the Devils did to the Flyers didn't tell you how big of a problem the Pens have with coaching than I don't know what will.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby Fire0nice228 on Fri May 11, 2012 10:53 am

"These are two absolutely different teams. The Penguins, just like us, rely a lot on their offense. They play the Brazilian system: 'You score as many as you can. We [score] as many as we want. We got an open hockey.' And New Jersey is similar to other clubs left in the playoffs. Their defense is good. They don't let you create a lot of chances in their zone.

Maybe the series against the Penguins drained you emotionally?

"I wouldn't say so. It's just Pittsburgh plays and lets others play. And New Jersey plays but doesn't let others play."

-Ilya Bryzgalov


Boy doesn't that make you feel warm and fuzzy inside? We're the circa 2009 Capitals!

ugh.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby Hawkeynut on Fri May 11, 2012 11:29 am

Fire0nice228 wrote:
"These are two absolutely different teams. The Penguins, just like us, rely a lot on their offense. They play the Brazilian system: 'You score as many as you can. We [score] as many as we want. We got an open hockey.' And New Jersey is similar to other clubs left in the playoffs. Their defense is good. They don't let you create a lot of chances in their zone.

Maybe the series against the Penguins drained you emotionally?

"I wouldn't say so. It's just Pittsburgh plays and lets others play. And New Jersey plays but doesn't let others play."

-Ilya Bryzgalov


Boy doesn't that make you feel warm and fuzzy inside? We're the circa 2009 Capitals!

ugh.


Yeah, Ilya "Loose Marbles" Brygalov's opinion of the Pens is the one I value the most. :roll:
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby Fire0nice228 on Fri May 11, 2012 11:36 am

Crazy or not, he played in the games and knows what is said in the Flyers lockerroom about the Pens style and whatnot. Its just reading material of course, but, you cant argue with what he said in regards to whose left in the playoffs and which way the HCDB system leans regarding offensive vs defensive prowess.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby novapen on Fri May 11, 2012 11:46 am

farnham16 wrote:If watching what the Devils did to the Flyers didn't tell you how big of a problem the Pens have with coaching than I don't know what will.


Watching the capitals play defense after changing coaches?
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby Hawkeynut on Fri May 11, 2012 12:04 pm

Fire0nice228 wrote:Crazy or not, he played in the games and knows what is said in the Flyers lockerroom about the Pens style and whatnot. Its just reading material of course, but, you cant argue with what he said in regards to whose left in the playoffs and which way the HCDB system leans regarding offensive vs defensive prowess.


Even worse.... you are taking the opinion of the Flyers locker room as truth. Any chance that team can throw bullets our way they will do it.

Some of you will reach to great lengths to throw this team under the bus, up to and including listening to the opinion of the team's biggest rival. Horrid. :face:
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby Malkamaniac on Fri May 11, 2012 12:07 pm

The Flyers were in the Pens head, they outplayed them badly at times, and they convincingly beat the Penguins. I'm more inclined to listen to them tell us like it is, rather than the Pens coaches saying that they aren't going to change the way they play.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby Hawkeynut on Fri May 11, 2012 12:15 pm

When did the coaching staff explicitly say that they were not changing the way they play?

It just really disappoints me that any supposed Pens fan would listen to the Flyers in any capacity at ANY time.

Pathetic.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby Malkamaniac on Fri May 11, 2012 12:18 pm

Hawkeynut wrote:When did the coaching staff explicitly say that they were not changing the way they play?

It just really disappoints me that any supposed Pens fan would listen to the Flyers in any capacity at ANY time.

Pathetic.


The entire series the pens players AND the coaches stated at various times throughout the series that their system was fine and they needed to do better at it.

Jordan Staal and Bylsma saying it after the game 2 drubbing seems to be sticking with me fairly seriously.

Did the Penguins get badly outplayed? Yes.
Did they change their system at all when it wasn't working? NO.
Did they get demolished in 6 games? Yes.

What did the Flyers say that WASN'T true about the current Pens team and series 1.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby The Current One on Fri May 11, 2012 12:18 pm

It's obvious the the players feel too comfortable with Bylsma, and once that happens, there's no going back. The only way that things truly change is with a new coach that demands defensive accountability like Therrien did. Those types of coaches typically have a shorter shelf life, but the impact they have is long-lasting. Bylsma came along at the right time, and the Pens still had a defensive mindset when they won the Cup.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby Pens15 on Fri May 11, 2012 12:23 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:
Hawkeynut wrote:When did the coaching staff explicitly say that they were not changing the way they play?

It just really disappoints me that any supposed Pens fan would listen to the Flyers in any capacity at ANY time.

Pathetic.


The entire series the pens players AND the coaches stated at various times throughout the series that their system was fine and they needed to do better at it.

Jordan Staal and Bylsma saying it after the game 2 drubbing seems to be sticking with me fairly seriously.

Did the Penguins get badly outplayed? Yes.
Did they change their system at all when it wasn't working? NO.
Did they get demolished in 6 games? Yes.

What did the Flyers say that WASN'T true about the current Pens team and series 1.


Shero said after the season too that they still believe in DB and his philosophy, while at the same time admitting that they don't really know what went wrong and will have to look at it.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby Hawkeynut on Fri May 11, 2012 12:29 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:
Hawkeynut wrote:When did the coaching staff explicitly say that they were not changing the way they play?

It just really disappoints me that any supposed Pens fan would listen to the Flyers in any capacity at ANY time.

Pathetic.


The entire series the pens players AND the coaches stated at various times throughout the series that their system was fine and they needed to do better at it.

Jordan Staal and Bylsma saying it after the game 2 drubbing seems to be sticking with me fairly seriously.

Did the Penguins get badly outplayed? Yes.
Did they change their system at all when it wasn't working? NO.
Did they get demolished in 6 games? Yes.

What did the Flyers say that WASN'T true about the current Pens team and series 1.


I thought you were referring to not changing their game plan moving forward... not during the series. So on that note....

You only change "systems" mid stream when the system you are playing isn't working. Well, I hate to break it to ya but the Pens were playing no semblance of any system during that series. So what would the point of change be? No system aside from circling the net would have helped Fleury, no system would help Sid get his game legs back... you can go on and on.

At the very least you try your hardest to get your team to play the system that they are most familiar and build confidence that way and don't change things midstream. One of the biggest things in hockey is to keep it simple, by introducing a new system in game 3 would have thrown this team even further into the abyss.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby Malkamaniac on Fri May 11, 2012 12:35 pm

So if they weren't playing a system to begin with like you described, then it's true that their only option was to outscore an opponent with no regard to defense. Again, I fail to see what Philly said that isn't true to this situation.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby Malkamaniac on Fri May 11, 2012 12:53 pm

Believe me, I understand that the last thing anyone wants to do is listen to what Philly has to say most of the time. However, they pretty much had it dead to rights though when they dismantled the Pens physically, emotionally, and on the scoreboard.

Admission that nobody had any answers is a collective failure throughout the entire organization. If it's an admission that they couldn't even get to their system to play the way they wanted to, that's a failure on both the coaches and players.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby Sarcastic on Fri May 11, 2012 1:12 pm

We can be sure that Shero is seething after everything that's happened. We can give him some jabs about his own performance but the man wants to win and everything blew up in his face. I just hope he learns from this and makes the necessary changes.

What the Devils did to the Flyers, with a lesser roster than ours, speaks for itself.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby pugilist13 on Fri May 11, 2012 1:20 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:I'm so over the Pens loss that I enjoyed Philly wasting another great shot at getting to the cup. There's only one winner every year to begin with. Doesn't really matter what round you lose in if you still lost.

I agree. Mr.Burkle and Mr. Lemieux will have a difference of opinion on the last sentence.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby Malkamaniac on Fri May 11, 2012 1:22 pm

pugilist13 wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:I'm so over the Pens loss that I enjoyed Philly wasting another great shot at getting to the cup. There's only one winner every year to begin with. Doesn't really matter what round you lose in if you still lost.

I agree. Mr.Burkle and Mr. Lemieux will have a difference of opinion on the last sentence.


I can't see them being that upset. They charged enough on those t-shirts to make money for at least two more rounds without even playing :pop:
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby pugilist13 on Fri May 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:
pugilist13 wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:I'm so over the Pens loss that I enjoyed Philly wasting another great shot at getting to the cup. There's only one winner every year to begin with. Doesn't really matter what round you lose in if you still lost.

I agree. Mr.Burkle and Mr. Lemieux will have a difference of opinion on the last sentence.


I can't see them being that upset. They charged enough on those t-shirts to make money for at least two more rounds without even playing :pop:

Lol, you're probably right.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby Sarcastic on Fri May 11, 2012 1:27 pm

the riddler wrote:What the NJ-PHI series showed me is that NJ didn't get caught up in anything the Flyers did after the whistle. They just kept playing and made smart decisions every game. The Penguins got too caught up in all the hype of the series, it looked like they did the stupid things they did because it was Philly/Pittsburgh and that's what they thought they should do.


That's what the Devils said after the series. Even Hartnell admitted that they just couldn't get a rise out of that team.

I also remember what the Devils said before the series, after seeing us lose, that they are not going to get in the same style of game that we did. They had a plan and it worked. That's recognizing how to beat the opposition (*)... basically, good coaching. I have become more and more conviced that Bylsma and our coaching staff is substandard (**).

* Their neutral zone play was awesome, as was the cycle in the Flyers zone, keeping the puck in there and tiring out Flyers' big D. That's exactly what most of us felt was needed in our series - attack their big but slow D with relentless skating and hitting. We failed to do that, allowing their skilled F to kill our own defensemen.

(**)
Main Entry:
substandard  [suhb-stan-derd]

Part of Speech:
adjective

Definition:
inferior

Synonyms:
bad, base, below average, below par, below standard, cheap, inadequate, junk, lemon, lousy, low-grade, poor, second-rate, shoddy, subpar, unacceptable
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby farnham16 on Fri May 11, 2012 5:47 pm

The system that Bylsma wants to play and had the Pens playing simply will not get you a lot of post season success. I don't know how you can argue against that point. Look at the teams that are left and how they play. When was the last time a team that played the way Bylsma wants the Pens to play won a Cup? Back in the early 90's?

That doesn't mean the Pens need to go all trap with systematic shot blocking, but all out attack from all five guys on the ice will not win you a Cup.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby Pitts on Fri May 11, 2012 9:46 pm

Fire0nice228 wrote:
"These are two absolutely different teams. The Penguins, just like us, rely a lot on their offense. They play the Brazilian system: 'You score as many as you can. We [score] as many as we want. We got an open hockey.' And New Jersey is similar to other clubs left in the playoffs. Their defense is good. They don't let you create a lot of chances in their zone.

Maybe the series against the Penguins drained you emotionally?

"I wouldn't say so. It's just Pittsburgh plays and lets others play. And New Jersey plays but doesn't let others play."

-Ilya Bryzgalov


Boy doesn't that make you feel warm and fuzzy inside? We're the circa 2009 Capitals!

ugh.

Well, that was painfully plain to see in the Philly series. Meanwhile, the Caps are looking awesome.
Hawkeynut wrote:Yeah, Ilya "Loose Marbles" Brygalov's opinion of the Pens is the one I value the most. :roll:

I'm sorry, but it pretty much dead-on.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby pcm on Sat May 12, 2012 12:58 pm

Blysma's system adjusted just fine last season without Crosby and Malkin. Yeah they still lost disappointingly in the first round, but they had very little business getting there with that lineup...

The difference came with the stars all back in the lineup and the offense blazing, they forgot what playoff hockey means. Crosby coming back skewed the leadership off course. The assumption was that they could just outpower any opponent.

The exact same thing happened in 1993. Mario came back and everyone was writing the Penguin's names on the cup. Let's hope the Penguins don't begin to unravel this team like started in the mid-90's...
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby moondart on Sat May 12, 2012 4:52 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:I'm a fan of Byslma, but there's no doubt failure there when you refuse to adapt to changes, let your team run around like loons, and not make mid game adjustments.

Either he quit on the team, the team quit on him, or he's to egotistical to change his game plan.


HCDB was outcoached. What makes him look worse is that he had no "plan B" when things started to go in the toilet. Let us not forget that his answer to the PP was to take Sid off of it.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby Desiato on Sat May 12, 2012 5:53 pm

farnham16 wrote:If watching what the Devils did to the Flyers didn't tell you how big of a problem the Pens have with coaching than I don't know what will.


No kidding. Worse, not only does HCDB refuse to make adjustments, Shero also seems complacent after the same story for three playoffs: "play our game, execute, control the tempo, yada yada yada..."

Unless the Pens unfathomably falter during the regular season, it seems that Bylsma is going to have to fail in the playoffs again before being replaced.

Not that it's only a playoff phenomenon. The Pens were routinely exposed throughout the season.

I like DB. I believe he may still have a stellar future. But he's gotta go back to the drawing board. Perhaps he should look at some of what MT brought to the team.
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Re: Never thought the Pens could look worse than the already

Postby penmyst on Sun May 13, 2012 12:23 am

People like to say the Pens got too involved in the cheap stuff with Philly, and that is what cost them.

But it only came AFTER the blatant outcoaching, outhustling, and outdiscipline playing that Philly put all over the Pens.

The cheap crap came due to the frustration of a team that simply had NO answers. Had NO coaching solutions or adjustments to what Philly threw at them. The Pens ended up looking like a bunch of selfish NBA players out there, but it really only came about AFTER the incompetence of the HCDB regime.

How anybody that is a Pens fan can dismiss what Philly players have to say about that ass-whipping... is beyond me. Philly just callin it like it was.

What ought to be the most severe concern for Pens fans is that GMRS even sounded "clueless" about what happened. The fact that HCDB is still working for the Pens tells you all you need to know about how likely it is that GMRS will figure ANYTHING out in this offseason.

If GMRS, HCDB, and Pens fans think that dumping Martin/Michalek and going after a "defensive stud" D is going to change anything important? That it's going to get the Pens past inferior (and at this point, I am thinking it is more proper to say that the Pens are the inferior team any longer) teams in the Playoffs next year--------- they're kidding themselves.

Just like Craps fans and organ-I-zation did this year. Until reality could no longer be ignored, and severe regime change had to occur.

Think about that last line. At this point just a mere few seasons ago, any Pens fans here at LGP would have laughed in your face if you would have told them that the 2012 Caps would look closer to a SC team than the Pens. Even though they lost to the Rangers, they advanced 1 more round than the Pens did, pushed the Rangers (top seed in East) to a narrow 1-goal win in a game 7, and all as an underdog that didn't look likely to even MAKE the playoffs after Boudreau was fired. Meanwhile, the Pens wasted an embarassment of riches, AGAIN. And your GM is telling you he doesn't know what went wrong. :face:
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