More Staal Speculation...

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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Pavel Bure on Tue May 15, 2012 10:21 am

I don't get the love affair with Schenn.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue May 15, 2012 10:23 am

Pavel Bure wrote:I don't get the love affair with Schenn.


I like Schenn because he's what Orpik use to be.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby no name on Tue May 15, 2012 10:39 am

The first thing the Pens need to do is sign Staal to a contract even if it out of range for us, would guarentee us the biggest return possible. Trading a guy with one year left on his current deal doesn't give us a ton of leverage to get the biggest return.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby sil on Tue May 15, 2012 10:43 am

no name wrote:The first thing the Pens need to do is sign Staal to a contract even if it out of range for us, would guarentee us the biggest return possible. Trading a guy with one year left on his current deal doesn't give us a ton of leverage to get the biggest return.


You know, this is a really good point.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby penny lane on Tue May 15, 2012 10:53 am

Pavel Bure wrote:I don't get the love affair with Schenn.


is the jag in philly his brother ? oh heck no!
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby sil on Tue May 15, 2012 10:58 am

penny lane wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:I don't get the love affair with Schenn.


is the jag in philly his brother ? oh heck no!


Idk, that kind of makes me want to say, 'oh heck yeak!'
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue May 15, 2012 11:07 am

Until he wants a NMC to kick in once he's eligible and then it devalues the contract.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue May 15, 2012 12:44 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Until he wants a NMC to kick in once he's eligible and then it devalues the contract.


Completely agree. Signing a long-term deal will include a NTC or he will give the Pens a list of 5 teams. I dont see this being beneficial to us.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Pens15 on Tue May 15, 2012 12:50 pm

sil wrote:
no name wrote:The first thing the Pens need to do is sign Staal to a contract even if it out of range for us, would guarentee us the biggest return possible. Trading a guy with one year left on his current deal doesn't give us a ton of leverage to get the biggest return.


You know, this is a really good point.


It's really not though. Why on earth would Staal willingly put the question of where he ends up for the next several years completely out of his hands?

Bottom line is that Staal is the one holding the cards here. If he's intent on testing the market (which I would be if I were him) the Pens will have to take what they can get or risk losing Staal for nothing.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Jasmine on Tue May 15, 2012 1:03 pm

Yes, and I thank Ray Shero for putting the Pens in this predicament. Not signing Scuderi for $3.4 mil (less than any of our top D-men are making now) was the start of the Pens downfall. No one will tell me why he gets a free pass???? Because Bylsma's system is even worse? WHAT?
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Malkamaniac on Tue May 15, 2012 1:11 pm

Jasmine wrote:Yes, and I thank Ray Shero for putting the Pens in this predicament. Not signing Scuderi for $3.4 mil (less than any of our top D-men are making now) was the start of the Pens downfall. No one will tell me why he gets a free pass???? Because Bylsma's system is even worse? WHAT?


They couldn't afford to sign Scuderi at the time, and especially at the price he got for the Kings, when he'd be third pairing here.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Pavel Bure on Tue May 15, 2012 1:25 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:
Jasmine wrote:Yes, and I thank Ray Shero for putting the Pens in this predicament. Not signing Scuderi for $3.4 mil (less than any of our top D-men are making now) was the start of the Pens downfall. No one will tell me why he gets a free pass???? Because Bylsma's system is even worse? WHAT?


They couldn't afford to sign Scuderi at the time, and especially at the price he got for the Kings, when he'd be third pairing here.

Yeah 3.4m at that time was probably close to what 4.5M of the cap is today. Would you be comfortable with Scuderi making that much? I wouldn't
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Stoosh on Tue May 15, 2012 1:27 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:
Jasmine wrote:Yes, and I thank Ray Shero for putting the Pens in this predicament. Not signing Scuderi for $3.4 mil (less than any of our top D-men are making now) was the start of the Pens downfall. No one will tell me why he gets a free pass???? Because Bylsma's system is even worse? WHAT?


They couldn't afford to sign Scuderi at the time, and especially at the price he got for the Kings, when he'd be third pairing here.


I think Seth from Emptynetters delved into this on Twitter last week. I forget the exact details, but this is true. Malkin's and Staal's rookie deals expired at the end of the 2009 season, so their respective cap hits for 2009-10 went way up as their contract extensions kicked in. They could've kept Scuds, but it would've required trimming the roster elsewhere. They thought they could mitigate Scuderi's departure in the short term with Jay McKee (2009-10 season), and then addressed the role long-term with Michalek (beginning with 2010-11 season).

The biggest problem here may be the way Michalek is being used. I saw Michalek chasing the puck a lot this year, especially in the Philly series, especially (and worst) on the PK. There were times in the Philly series where he was chasing all the way to the half-wall on the PK. Not good. I don't recall seeing the same things from Scuderi; I seem to recall Scuds never venturing on the PK much further than a stick-length or two from the post. I don't know if this was by design (on the coaches) or by execution (on the player), but it's something I'd like to see them change with Michalek.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Malkamaniac on Tue May 15, 2012 1:31 pm

Not to mention Scud's played like a high average third liner, below average second liner most of his career here. He made bank for the 09 run, and good for him honestly. There's just no way Scuds was coming back.

Especially when it was out there on record that he gave the Pens final say to offer, and when they couldn't, he went to LA.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Malkamaniac on Tue May 15, 2012 1:32 pm

From the Trib when Scud's signed in LA.



Terms are not known, but the Kings had offered a multi-year deal at what was believed to be a $3 million annual average salary.

The Penguins are believed to have offered a five-year deal at $10 million total.

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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Rylan on Tue May 15, 2012 1:37 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:From the Trib when Scud's signed in LA.



Terms are not known, but the Kings had offered a multi-year deal at what was believed to be a $3 million annual average salary.

The Penguins are believed to have offered a five-year deal at $10 million total.



So what you are saying is a team can only do so much and that the decision is ultimately left up to the player? No way.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Malkamaniac on Tue May 15, 2012 1:38 pm

Rylan wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:From the Trib when Scud's signed in LA.



Terms are not known, but the Kings had offered a multi-year deal at what was believed to be a $3 million annual average salary.

The Penguins are believed to have offered a five-year deal at $10 million total.



So what you are saying is a team can only do so much and that the decision is ultimately left up to the player? No way.


For whatever reason a lot of people overlook this thought.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Pens15 on Tue May 15, 2012 1:49 pm

Even if Scuds was never coming back, there does seem to have been a deliberate, philosophical shift to having more mobile "puck moving" defense to fit in with DB's preferred style of play. Look at McKee not playing in '10, Lovejoy playing over Engo last year. Look at other evidence that I'm too lazy to compile right now.

Right now it's a philosophy that looks like a failure.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby MRandall25 on Tue May 15, 2012 1:52 pm

Pens15 wrote:Even if Scuds was never coming back, there does seem to have been a deliberate, philosophical shift to having more mobile "puck moving" defense to fit in with DB's preferred style of play. Look at McKee not playing in '10, Lovejoy playing over Engo last year. Look at other evidence that I'm too lazy to compile right now.

Right now it's a philosophy that looks like a failure.


I thought they stopped playing McKee because he was being hampered by injuries?

He also played 62 games that year. Not like he sat out half the year.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Pens15 on Tue May 15, 2012 1:56 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Pens15 wrote:Even if Scuds was never coming back, there does seem to have been a deliberate, philosophical shift to having more mobile "puck moving" defense to fit in with DB's preferred style of play. Look at McKee not playing in '10, Lovejoy playing over Engo last year. Look at other evidence that I'm too lazy to compile right now.

Right now it's a philosophy that looks like a failure.


I thought they stopped playing McKee because he was being hampered by injuries?

He also played 62 games that year. Not like he sat out half the year.


He was definitely healthy at playoff time. He got in one or two games. I remember being frustrated by it at the time. It was all DB's preference for mobility on D.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby sil on Tue May 15, 2012 2:10 pm

Pens15 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Pens15 wrote:Even if Scuds was never coming back, there does seem to have been a deliberate, philosophical shift to having more mobile "puck moving" defense to fit in with DB's preferred style of play. Look at McKee not playing in '10, Lovejoy playing over Engo last year. Look at other evidence that I'm too lazy to compile right now.

Right now it's a philosophy that looks like a failure.


I thought they stopped playing McKee because he was being hampered by injuries?

He also played 62 games that year. Not like he sat out half the year.


He was definitely healthy at playoff time. He got in one or two games. I remember being frustrated by it at the time. It was all DB's preference for mobility on D.


While I don't advocate 'firing' bylsma...it's pretty clear that TOI doesn't have to be earned with him.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Defence21 on Tue May 15, 2012 2:11 pm

Pens15 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Pens15 wrote:Even if Scuds was never coming back, there does seem to have been a deliberate, philosophical shift to having more mobile "puck moving" defense to fit in with DB's preferred style of play. Look at McKee not playing in '10, Lovejoy playing over Engo last year. Look at other evidence that I'm too lazy to compile right now.

Right now it's a philosophy that looks like a failure.


I thought they stopped playing McKee because he was being hampered by injuries?

He also played 62 games that year. Not like he sat out half the year.


He was definitely healthy at playoff time. He got in one or two games. I remember being frustrated by it at the time. It was all DB's preference for mobility on D.

Generally the GM puts together the team and the coach implements the system and chooses the players available to him that he feels best fit the system. It makes sense, then, that a slow, immobile McKee might be a bit of an uncomfortable decision for Bylsma to make. As for Shero making a conscious or unconscious decision to switch to more mobile defenders, I think it has much more to do with the way the game had progressed from the lockout to this past summer, and less to do with Bylsma specifically. Skating defensemen were a hot commodity in the new, free-flowing, fast-paced NHL -- until, of course, this season, when obstruction and shot-blocking came back with a vengeance.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Pens4Life on Tue May 15, 2012 3:23 pm

If we trade Staal,i hope he gets traded to Carolina,because of Eric! But I really really hope he re-signs here..
Let Shero trade Martin,Michalek,Orpik,Kennedy,Cooke,Lovejoy,Kunitz or whoever before he trades JS! Shero should find some space on salary cap with some smart moves,to keep Jordan here..
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Rylan on Tue May 15, 2012 3:25 pm

If Staal gets traded, I hope its somewhere where he is the man.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby sil on Tue May 15, 2012 3:36 pm

If Staal gets traded, I hope its to some GM that overpays us for him.
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