More Staal Speculation...

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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby joker10277 on Tue May 15, 2012 4:42 pm

RS is to blame for being in the position he is with Staal. He should have signed him to a 3 or 5 year deal last contract. He would of been an RFA under a 3 year and he would have 2 years left and be very tradeable if he signed him to 5 years. Never understood why he signed him right up to his UFA years, he did the same thing with Letang, so next year he'll be in the same place with Letang.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Defence21 on Tue May 15, 2012 5:15 pm

joker10277 wrote:RS is to blame for being in the position he is with Staal. He should have signed him to a 3 or 5 year deal last contract. He would of been an RFA under a 3 year and he would have 2 years left and be very tradeable if he signed him to 5 years. Never understood why he signed him right up to his UFA years, he did the same thing with Letang, so next year he'll be in the same place with Letang.

Not like Staal and his agent didn't know this. Sometimes a GM's hands are tied, especially when a player is as good as Staal is. These negotiations aren't one-sided...
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Rylan on Tue May 15, 2012 5:18 pm

Defence21 wrote:
joker10277 wrote:RS is to blame for being in the position he is with Staal. He should have signed him to a 3 or 5 year deal last contract. He would of been an RFA under a 3 year and he would have 2 years left and be very tradeable if he signed him to 5 years. Never understood why he signed him right up to his UFA years, he did the same thing with Letang, so next year he'll be in the same place with Letang.

Not like Staal and his agent didn't know this. Sometimes a GM's hands are tied, especially when a player is as good as Staal is. These negotiations aren't one-sided...


So what you are saying is that players have personal agendas too?
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby joker10277 on Tue May 15, 2012 5:37 pm

Defence21 wrote:
joker10277 wrote:RS is to blame for being in the position he is with Staal. He should have signed him to a 3 or 5 year deal last contract. He would of been an RFA under a 3 year and he would have 2 years left and be very tradeable if he signed him to 5 years. Never understood why he signed him right up to his UFA years, he did the same thing with Letang, so next year he'll be in the same place with Letang.

Not like Staal and his agent didn't know this. Sometimes a GM's hands are tied, especially when a player is as good as Staal is. These negotiations aren't one-sided...


I understand what your saying, but RS had the advantage at the time, he could of told him we'll do 3 years or 5 years or you can go to July 1st and we'll match the offer or take the picks. RS had alot of leverage 3 years ago.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby MRandall25 on Tue May 15, 2012 7:18 pm

joker10277 wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
joker10277 wrote:RS is to blame for being in the position he is with Staal. He should have signed him to a 3 or 5 year deal last contract. He would of been an RFA under a 3 year and he would have 2 years left and be very tradeable if he signed him to 5 years. Never understood why he signed him right up to his UFA years, he did the same thing with Letang, so next year he'll be in the same place with Letang.

Not like Staal and his agent didn't know this. Sometimes a GM's hands are tied, especially when a player is as good as Staal is. These negotiations aren't one-sided...


I understand what your saying, but RS had the advantage at the time, he could of told him we'll do 3 years or 5 years or you can go to July 1st and we'll match the offer or take the picks. RS had alot of leverage 3 years ago.


Hindsight is 20/20. Are you really blaming Shero for something no one could have seen until Staal's contract expired?
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby columbia on Tue May 15, 2012 7:20 pm

He might not have had enough leverage to make a 3 or 5 year deal, but you can be sure he was aware of the implications of the contract.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby interstorm on Tue May 15, 2012 9:02 pm

joker10277 wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
joker10277 wrote:RS is to blame for being in the position he is with Staal. He should have signed him to a 3 or 5 year deal last contract. He would of been an RFA under a 3 year and he would have 2 years left and be very tradeable if he signed him to 5 years. Never understood why he signed him right up to his UFA years, he did the same thing with Letang, so next year he'll be in the same place with Letang.

Not like Staal and his agent didn't know this. Sometimes a GM's hands are tied, especially when a player is as good as Staal is. These negotiations aren't one-sided...


I understand what your saying, but RS had the advantage at the time, he could of told him we'll do 3 years or 5 years or you can go to July 1st and we'll match the offer or take the picks. RS had alot of leverage 3 years ago.


...sure - nothing like ticking a player off with the hopes that he'll be nice the next time around. you realize these are human beings, correct?
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Pens4Life on Wed May 16, 2012 2:16 am

Because of the Crosby's health issues I really dont want to see Geno or Staal gone.. I think Sid could be one big hit/concussion away from another one or maybe even two year break or maybe even end of the career!? I think Shero should be smart and re-signs Staal,no matters what.. I dont think Staal will demand more than 5.5M per year! I really dont.. And I believe that RS has a lot of ways or options to keep the core (Sid,Geno,JS,Neal) here in Pittcity for many years to come.. First trade the other parts of the team,than the best one's if needed.
Right now Pens can afford JS and can trade someone (Martin,MAF,Michalek,Kunitz,Kennedy..) else somewhere..
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby penny lane on Fri May 18, 2012 9:44 am

http://triblive.com/sports/dejankovacev ... rosby-goes

From Dejan today:

If the cap goes way up — some see $70 million as possible, a 10 percent increase — the Penguins keeping all three centers suddenly becomes palatable.
Why make a move like this without surveying the revised landscape?
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Troy Loney on Fri May 18, 2012 11:29 am

How much of a raise does Jordan Staal get? $5.5M per year seems about right to me.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby sil on Fri May 18, 2012 11:34 am

Troy Loney wrote:How much of a raise does Jordan Staal get? $5.5M per year seems about right to me.


Yep.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby meecrofilm on Fri May 18, 2012 11:36 am

I don't think it's about the money -- it's about his role on the team and the opportunities he's getting.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Troy Loney on Fri May 18, 2012 11:37 am

I thought it was more about Staal not wanting to the 3rd line center.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Troy Loney on Fri May 18, 2012 11:37 am

well, guess that answers my question.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Pens15 on Fri May 18, 2012 12:35 pm

That Dejan article is pretty lame. Anymore, you get far, far better takes and analysis from reading message boards than from the scribble that the local scribes put out.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby HockeyDaddy on Fri May 18, 2012 12:49 pm

One of the big three centers needs to move to wing. It should not be Staal. Malkin is a giveaway king, it needs to be him. Give Staal #1 PP time in front of the net.

Top 6 Offensive Players
Crosby 8.7
Malkin 8.7
Staal 5.5
Neal 5.0
Kunitz 3.75
Dupuis 1.5

Total cap Hit: 33.15

This leaves the Pens a bit top heavy, but not a bad price when you consider the talent that you have in the top 6. Many teams would be very close to the same number with less talent.

The problem is that this model relies on many lower tier players to outplay their contracts for the Pens to be able to successfully fill the bottom 6.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Pavel Bure on Fri May 18, 2012 1:56 pm

Yah let's move. Two time scoring champ that dominates at the center position to accommodate Jordan Staal. No way
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Bioshock on Fri May 18, 2012 5:40 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:Yah let's move. Two time scoring champ that dominates at the center position to accommodate Jordan Staal. No way

People just need to accept that Staal is gone. Yeah, the cap may go up to heights none of us even dreamed and might even go higher if the NHLPA has it's way. Yeah, the Pens wanna sign him and can pay him out the ass to do so, but what a lot of people seem to forget it that he has to WANT TO SIGN here.

Staal isn't a winger or a third line center. He's a Selke candidate, a PK Specialist, good faceoff man, great two way center who can also score 35 goals and is captain material that can easily be the face of a lot of Franchises. He might get the money here, but what he won't get here is everything else that he clearly can be. He would be completely and totally insane to sign here and frankly, i'm sick of not giving Sid the proper winger to accommodate him.

This summer the Cap is expected to jump because of unique circumstances. The Pens are also probably going to sign Matt Niskanen and have 9 NHL level defensemen. There will be movement on the blueline just on that alone and you will have the perfect winger in Parise on the open market for Sid with the cap room to sign him.

I would rather make the lineup more whole so to speak with Sid finally having the winger he deserves than having a unique talent on the third line with no wingers to support him and a lineup that is top heavy in one position.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Sarcastic on Fri May 18, 2012 5:49 pm

I have a feeling that Staal wold be disappointing if he went to a team to be #1 or heavily counted on #2. He gets points on the Pens, but remember he is not a playmaker at all and also he usually plays against weaker competition than do Crosby and Malkin.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Bioshock on Fri May 18, 2012 5:54 pm

Sarcastic wrote:I have a feeling that Staal wold be disappointing if he went to a team to be #1 or heavily counted on #2. He gets points on the Pens, but remember he is not a playmaker at all and also he usually plays against weaker competition than do Crosby and Malkin.


I can come back at that with the fact that he has never had a good supporting cast. Yeah, he hasn't gone against top D-Pairings, but so what? He hasn't had a better winger than Matt Cooke or Tyler frigging Kennedy. The dude has a ton of talent. If he was on the leafs top line of Kessel and Lupul, it would be epic.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Bioshock on Fri May 18, 2012 5:58 pm

All we can give him is money and the same locker room he has grown accustomed to. Other teams can give him that same money and the moon in terms of playing time and talent around him along with a possible Captaincy.

This guy isn't meant to play on the Third line of any team.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Bioshock on Fri May 18, 2012 6:16 pm

-I trade Staal and Martin to Carolina for Jeff Skinner and 4th round pick.
-Pick up Parise for 6.5 million per season
-Sign Gaustad for your third line center at 2.7 million
-Trade Kennedy for a third round pick
-Resign Matt Niskanen for 2.5 million

Cap goes to 69 million and the team looks like this:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Zach Parise ($6.500m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Jeff Skinner ($1.400m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Paul Gaustad ($2.700m) / Eric Tangradi ($0.900m)
Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Arron Asham ($0.800m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.575m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Zbynek Michalek ($4.000m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Matt Niskanen ($2.500m) / Simon Despres ($0.840m)
Ben Lovejoy ($0.525m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Martin Biron ($0.900m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,431,667; BONUSES: $500,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $4,568,333
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Sarcastic on Fri May 18, 2012 6:21 pm

Bioshock wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:I have a feeling that Staal wold be disappointing if he went to a team to be #1 or heavily counted on #2. He gets points on the Pens, but remember he is not a playmaker at all and also he usually plays against weaker competition than do Crosby and Malkin.


I can come back at that with the fact that he has never had a good supporting cast. Yeah, he hasn't gone against top D-Pairings, but so what? He hasn't had a better winger than Matt Cooke or Tyler frigging Kennedy. The dude has a ton of talent. If he was on the leafs top line of Kessel and Lupul, it would be epic.


He mostly had similar wingers as Crosby. That includes Dupuis. Cooke. I think he played with Kunitz some. Kennedy was really good that one year. Hard to compare Crosby's skill to Staal's, though. I also wouldn't say 'so what' in regard to Crosby facing tougher competition and it's not just the D-pairings but also the forwards. If he had to go against another team's top dogs, I feel he'd have a problem getting more than 60 points in a season. And I think that if he were on the Leafs, Kessel would be swearing at him that he's not a great passer.

I think Staal is both underrated and overrated at the same time, if that makes sense. He's better than a 3d line checker for sure, but isn't exactly a star center.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Pens15 on Fri May 18, 2012 6:43 pm

Sarcastic wrote:I have a feeling that Staal wold be disappointing if he went to a team to be #1 or heavily counted on #2. He gets points on the Pens, but remember he is not a playmaker at all and also he usually plays against weaker competition than do Crosby and Malkin.


If they want an Art Ross contender they'll be disappointed, but if they'll settle for solid production, special teams, a rock solid team/character guy, and a great playoff performer who can be a major piece to a Cup winning team, they should be very satisfied.
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Re: More Staal Speculation...

Postby Sarcastic on Fri May 18, 2012 6:56 pm

Pens15 wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:I have a feeling that Staal wold be disappointing if he went to a team to be #1 or heavily counted on #2. He gets points on the Pens, but remember he is not a playmaker at all and also he usually plays against weaker competition than do Crosby and Malkin.


If they want an Art Ross contender they'll be disappointed, but if they'll settle for solid production, special teams, a rock solid team/character guy, and a great playoff performer who can be a major piece to a Cup winning team, they should be very satisfied.


True. I also want to slightly alter my earlier position and say that I don't think he has been used to the full extent yet. For instance, his shot has improved lately and I would really like to see him more on the PP. They did try using him there a couple years back but he couldn't handle being in front of the net and so he hasn't sniffed significant PP time since. It's probably time to try that again.

My wish is that they were able to properly convert him to a winger since he is a better shooter than playmaker right now and we surely could use another guy like that.
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