Rookies

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Rookies

Postby pcm on Sat May 12, 2012 1:20 pm

The key to staying competitive in a cap era is to acquire new talent through development (whether draft or trade). Teams are most successful with rookies playing key roles on their team. Of course, this isn't a hard and fast rule so much as a strategy. The Pens did not have a single rookie stay in the lineup this year. The organization prefers vets and this, in my opinion, is something that needs to change.

Open spots for competition, and get rid of the entrenched hierarchy (based on years served, salary, etc.)... it just leads to complacency.

For comparison, the Pens vs. all the teams that made it to the semis in games played by rookies (during reg season):
PIT - 58
LAK - 146
NJD - 181
PHX - 72
NYR - 133
WAS - 105
PHI - 435
NAS- 176
STL - 38

Next year, Despres and Tangradi should be up here. But I think this team needs a rookie in its top 9. Besides getting Sid and Staal re-signed, that should be Shero's greatest off-season priority.
pcm
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,103
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:39 am
Location: mountains

Re: Rookies

Postby Pavel Bure on Sat May 12, 2012 1:41 pm

The Pens had quite a few Rookies this year, also this whole outlook that somehow the Pens problems are not enough rookies is very blah.
Pavel Bure
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,281
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:15 pm
Location: http://freebitco.in/?r=289635 get bitcoins

Re: Rookies

Postby pcm on Sat May 12, 2012 2:30 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:The Pens had quite a few Rookies this year


Did you read the post? I included a stat about how many games rookies played compared to other teams, which is slightly more specific than "quite a few".

Pavel Bure wrote:also this whole outlook that somehow the Pens problems are not enough rookies is very blah.


This response is akin to blaming Fleury or Blysma for losing the series. There is no one problem one solution. As HH says in another thread, this season was an organizational failure. I'm just stating our GM's priority with making up the roster should be to inject the organization with young talent and open up competition to rookies, instead of backfilling with vets. As a strategy, it accomplishes a bunch of things that in total help keep the organization fresh, with new affordable talent. IMO this philosophical shift is more important than saying "Shero needs to draft better," as it encompasses the end result, ie. putting together a complete team within the confines of the salary cap.

What might that strategy look like in action?

One example would be to trade Martin to TBL for Johan Harju + pick.
Harju is a big-bodied swedish goal scorer expected to start on Tampa's 3rd or 4th line this season as rookie. This move allows Shero to re-sign Niskanen, opens up a spot for Despres, and adds a young forward to compete for a spot in the top 9.
pcm
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,103
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:39 am
Location: mountains

Re: Rookies

Postby JoseCuervo on Sat May 12, 2012 2:55 pm

the pens clearly need a rookie goaltender for next year
JoseCuervo
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,809
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:20 pm
Location: Dallas

Re: Rookies

Postby Rylan on Sat May 12, 2012 5:15 pm

Less rookies is generally a good thing...
Rylan
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,995
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:07 am
Location: Dead and Without Love

Re: Rookies

Postby Kaizer on Sat May 12, 2012 6:24 pm

how many rookie games were played for the non playoff teams?
Kaizer
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,324
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:02 am
Location: Crazy Town

Re: Rookies

Postby Froggy on Sat May 12, 2012 7:02 pm

it's not so much rookies, as it is good players on rookie deals. that's not a dependable way to build a team, and you'll basically need to start from scratch every few years with absolutely no margin for error.

unless you are talking about role players, then who the hell cares? vets are usually better at those roles anyway, and they don't make a significant dent in the cap.

philly is alright now. top 3rd of the conference... 2nd round of the playoffs. but in 2-3 years, when it comes time to pay these young players, it's not going to be possible to sign them all.

look at what the blackhawks went through the year after they won the cup.
Froggy
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,574
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:40 pm
Location: http://DrunkInAGraveyard.com

Re: Rookies

Postby Staggy on Sat May 12, 2012 7:30 pm

How do you just get a rookie in the top 9? It takes a good drafting position and luck to do that.
Staggy
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,846
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:33 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Rookies

Postby Henry Hank on Sat May 12, 2012 7:57 pm

Yeah, the advantage of rookies is getting good production on a cheap deal. It's not enough to just have young players in the lineup. I'd look at Tangradi in this way, sure he's fairly young still but he sucks. Just adding his youth to the lineup isn't going to help anything. On the other hand, a guy like Despres is exactly someone they should want to insert because he's talented and should bring value to the team but has a minimal cap hit. I'd suggest they'd be smart to be aggressive with guys like Morrow and Bennett too. If they show they can hang with the NHL guys, let them play. Take advantage of the cheap deals while they can, rather than waste entry level years in the minors.

The Pens really only have the prospects to take advantage of this strategy on D with guys like Despres and Strait ready, plus you've got Morrow and Harrington moving to AHL I'd assume. With all the money they have clogged up in a defense that isn't performing, they might as well plug in young, talented, cheap guys, dump the guys who aren't performing up to their contracts, and then use the available cap space to keep a guy like Staal rather than trading him after they just spent years developing him into the guy we envisioned in the first place.
Henry Hank
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,480
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:31 pm

Re: Rookies

Postby Pavel Bure on Sat May 12, 2012 11:14 pm

http://www.fearthefin.com/2012/5/8/3006 ... nce-finals

Super interesting article on the path of the Yotes and Kings. Kings made their team by trade now, think later. Yotes by building from within and with UFAs. Really interesting. They hate Jeff Carter.
Pavel Bure
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,281
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:15 pm
Location: http://freebitco.in/?r=289635 get bitcoins

Re: Rookies

Postby Gaucho on Sun May 13, 2012 6:08 am

As long as the rookies are good but by no means great we'll be ok.
Gaucho
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 40,730
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:22 am
Location: The Onyx Club

Re: Rookies

Postby columbia on Sun May 13, 2012 11:01 am

Not a Martin hater, but...

I'd rather see them lose in the first round next year with some rookies, than paying him $5M for the same outcome.
Then again, that's based on my belief that it if they don't significantly retool the team and/or can DB, the same outcome is inevitable.
columbia
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 45,840
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:13 am

Re: Rookies

Postby steelhammer on Sun May 13, 2012 3:37 pm

I have been complaining for years that the Pens don't give their rookies a fair shot (Jeffrey pre-injury, N. Johnson, etc.). Instead they always seem to fill the one open slot on the team with 2 or 3 free agent signings. Then players like Borque come in out of nowhere, do nothing, but are impossible to get off the team until they suck for 20+ straight games. Now Tangradi seems to be playing that role where you ask yourself "why is this guy getting ice time?". The answer is that we just don't have many good prospects and the ones we have get injured at the worst possible times in their career.
steelhammer
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,279
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:31 am
Location: Hold on, I have a stat for that.

Re: Rookies

Postby Defence21 on Mon May 14, 2012 10:54 am

Not sure where the rookie numbers come from. By my estimation, Joe Vitale was a rookie and played in 68 games on his own -- including an entire season in the NHL. Add in Despres, Strait, Sneep, Bortuzzo, Tangradi, etc and the number far surpasses the 58 cited in the original post.

Vitale = 68
Strait = 9
Sneep = 1
Bortuzzo = 6
Tangradi = 24
Theissen = 5

Total = 113

Let's look at the comparison now -- even though, if the Pens numbers are so wrong, we can likely assume the other teams' numbers also are wrong.

PHI - 435
NJD - 181
NAS- 176
LAK - 146
NYR - 133
PIT - 113
WAS - 105
PHX - 72
STL - 38

Still in the bottom half, but I'm not sure this tells us a whole lot, considering Phoenix continues to play, despite a low number or rookies and Philly is golfing, despite a high number of rookies.
Defence21
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,831
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA


Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

e-mail