UFA Shopping List

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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby shmenguin on Thu May 24, 2012 9:35 am

Samsdog wrote:
shmenguin wrote:unless kennedy also likes the smell of cocaine, i don't see how him and richards are comparable.

still waiting to hear an example of a guy getting traded just for the sake of making other guys uncomfortable


Carter and Richards traded out to make room for a perceived upgrade (Bryzgalov) in addition to telling the team that only the Cup was acceptable. Kennedy trade to make room for an upgrade-more physical third-liner (Gaustad or similar) that can play the PK in addition to telling the team that only the Cup is acceptable. I fail to see how the situations aren't comparable aside from scale. Sure Carter and Richards were causing their own problems but frankly the problems were used by the media as an excuse for the shake up; they were traded to shake up the structure of the team but the media didn't want to hear it. Additionally, there's no one in the forward corps that's easily singled out, but they were a large part of the defensive problems. So the options are to throw your hands up and say "let's just blame it on the coach and hope it gets sorted out next year" or do something about it. If you pick the latter, who do you move then? Guys that play with and make the superstars comfortable? Guys who actually take special teams time? Not saying you have to make a move, but if you're in the camp that the status quo isn't working, as I am, then the suggestion merits actual consideration.


carter and richards were moved because they infected the culture of the team. in no way was it a shakeup just for the sake of shaking up. your premise that players get moved just for the sake of change is still extremely flawed.

underneath this is the fact that you don't think much of kennedy and want to see him upgraded. you should just say that plainly instead of creating this weird theory. you'd have plenty of support around here.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Luckybreak on Thu May 24, 2012 9:35 am

Samsdog wrote:Not saying you have to make a move, but if you're in the camp that the status quo isn't working, as I am, then the suggestion merits actual consideration.


Shero believed no available trade could improve the team prior to the deadline. I'm fairly certain his standpoint has changed, though it remains to be seen what lengths he is prepared to go to. Personally I think at least one trade is essential as UFA prices seem to sky rocket well beyond a players worth, crippling teams more often than not. It shouldn't matter who's traded (outside of the core) if the team is made better, the players should understand that more than anyone.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Malkamaniac on Thu May 24, 2012 9:41 am

Gaustad and Gill were targets for the Pens. What Nashville gave up to get them was pretty much all you needed to know about this years trade deadline.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu May 24, 2012 9:42 am

I don't even know what the core is anymore. Is it Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Neal, Kunitz, Letang, Orpik, Martin, Michalek, Fleury? I guess you could argue that Kunitz has aged out of it. It doesn't mean much when you have commitments to that many people, hard to call it a core.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby columbia on Thu May 24, 2012 9:43 am

Malkamaniac wrote:Gaustad and Gill were targets for the Pens. What Nashville gave up to get them was pretty much all you needed to know about this years trade deadline.


True....I just hope that folks are no longer relying on the "they'll fix things at the deadline" theory for the Pens, because Shero seems done with giving away anything of value at that time.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Froggy on Thu May 24, 2012 9:43 am

Again, what message would trading Kennedy send? He's cheap, he's reasonably productive for his role, he doesn't really hurt you on the ice and he's not a distraction off the ice.

Richards and Carter were underperforming stars with issues that hurt the team on and off the ice. Trading them in addition to "sending a message" also got assets in return.

Trading Kennedy "just because" won't send a message to the team, won't fix the problems we had in the playoffs, won't get us assets in return... In fact, the only thing it will really accomplish is getting rid of Kennedy. And that's fine if that's what you want, but don't pretend any talk of trading Kennedy has to do with anything more than disliking him as a player.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Malkamaniac on Thu May 24, 2012 9:48 am

The only time I'd suggest trading Kennedy is if it was a package deal and the coaches decided to change their system. Outside of that, his speed is necessary to survive here.

Good lord did I just compliment TK?

TK SUCKS
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Luckybreak on Thu May 24, 2012 9:54 am

Malkamaniac wrote:Gaustad and Gill were targets for the Pens. What Nashville gave up to get them was pretty much all you needed to know about this years trade deadline.


I don't blame Shero for walking away from that scene but he did state that he was happy with the team as constructed (once healthy). Chasing the same players in the UFA market is impossible for Shero due to the Cap, so the team needs to shed salary in hockey trades to make the right changes.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby shmenguin on Thu May 24, 2012 9:57 am

Froggy wrote:Again, what message would trading Kennedy send? He's cheap, he's reasonably productive for his role, he doesn't really hurt you on the ice and he's not a distraction off the ice.

Richards and Carter were underperforming stars with issues that hurt the team on and off the ice. Trading them in addition to "sending a message" also got assets in return.

Trading Kennedy "just because" won't send a message to the team, won't fix the problems we had in the playoffs, won't get us assets in return... In fact, the only thing it will really accomplish is getting rid of Kennedy. And that's fine if that's what you want, but don't pretend any talk of trading Kennedy has to do with anything more than disliking him as a player.


i thought the way he finished the season and his performance in the playoffs was enough to buy him at least a couple months of people keeping the axe grinder in the garage, but i guess people got burnt out on martin bashing and they need to go to their old stand by.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Malkamaniac on Thu May 24, 2012 10:18 am

shmenguin wrote:
Froggy wrote:Again, what message would trading Kennedy send? He's cheap, he's reasonably productive for his role, he doesn't really hurt you on the ice and he's not a distraction off the ice.

Richards and Carter were underperforming stars with issues that hurt the team on and off the ice. Trading them in addition to "sending a message" also got assets in return.

Trading Kennedy "just because" won't send a message to the team, won't fix the problems we had in the playoffs, won't get us assets in return... In fact, the only thing it will really accomplish is getting rid of Kennedy. And that's fine if that's what you want, but don't pretend any talk of trading Kennedy has to do with anything more than disliking him as a player.


i thought the way he finished the season and his performance in the playoffs was enough to buy him at least a couple months of people keeping the axe grinder in the garage, but i guess people got burnt out on martin bashing and they need to go to their old stand by.


For the money he makes as a bit player he needs to produce all year round. :pop:
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Fire0nice228 on Thu May 24, 2012 10:23 am

I think the Core is Malkin, Crosby, Neal, Letang, Fluery... IMO everyone else should be available for trade.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Samsdog on Thu May 24, 2012 11:08 am

shmenguin wrote:
Samsdog wrote:
shmenguin wrote:unless kennedy also likes the smell of cocaine, i don't see how him and richards are comparable.

still waiting to hear an example of a guy getting traded just for the sake of making other guys uncomfortable


Carter and Richards traded out to make room for a perceived upgrade (Bryzgalov) in addition to telling the team that only the Cup was acceptable. Kennedy trade to make room for an upgrade-more physical third-liner (Gaustad or similar) that can play the PK in addition to telling the team that only the Cup is acceptable. I fail to see how the situations aren't comparable aside from scale. Sure Carter and Richards were causing their own problems but frankly the problems were used by the media as an excuse for the shake up; they were traded to shake up the structure of the team but the media didn't want to hear it. Additionally, there's no one in the forward corps that's easily singled out, but they were a large part of the defensive problems. So the options are to throw your hands up and say "let's just blame it on the coach and hope it gets sorted out next year" or do something about it. If you pick the latter, who do you move then? Guys that play with and make the superstars comfortable? Guys who actually take special teams time? Not saying you have to make a move, but if you're in the camp that the status quo isn't working, as I am, then the suggestion merits actual consideration.


carter and richards were moved because they infected the culture of the team. in no way was it a shakeup just for the sake of shaking up. your premise that players get moved just for the sake of change is still extremely flawed.

underneath this is the fact that you don't think much of kennedy and want to see him upgraded. you should just say that plainly instead of creating this weird theory. you'd have plenty of support around here.


Really? You're in the Flyers' front office and know why they do what they do? Please, tell us more.

I make no bones about thinking they could stand an upgrade over Kennedy, but I also think that there might be added benefit to it. I'm not married to the idea as I said a couple posts ago but I don't think that either sending the message or upgrading is a bad thing.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Samsdog on Thu May 24, 2012 11:28 am

Also this whole discussion is hijacking the thread and no one's mind is going to be changed by it so I'm just going to drop it and leave it at people disagree sometimes. Then I'll add a depth defenseman that can play some extra minutes to my shopping list, since I think that the D was more successful when the third pairing (Gill + Scuds) was sharing some of the minutes wealth.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Pitts on Thu May 24, 2012 11:51 am

I would say (and agree with the earlier suggestion) that Joe Thornton or Phil Kessel was the most recent example of a guy traded simply to send a message.

Let me say that I do not necessarily say Kennedy would be traded to send a message, as I think he has no real value outside a mid draft pick or similar nondescript forward, but I am agreeing that players can get moved for message sending purposes.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby shmenguin on Thu May 24, 2012 11:53 am

Pitts wrote:I would say (and agree with the earlier suggestion) that Joe Thornton or Phil Kessel was the most recent example of a guy traded simply to send a message.


seriously?
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Pitts on Thu May 24, 2012 11:55 am

Idoit40fans wrote:I don't even know what the core is anymore. Is it Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Neal, Kunitz, Letang, Orpik, Martin, Michalek, Fleury? I guess you could argue that Kunitz has aged out of it. It doesn't mean much when you have commitments to that many people, hard to call it a core.

The only "core" should be Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Fleury. Staal, maybe and even Letang is a maybe.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Pitts on Thu May 24, 2012 11:55 am

shmenguin wrote:
Pitts wrote:I would say (and agree with the earlier suggestion) that Joe Thornton or Phil Kessel was the most recent example of a guy traded simply to send a message.


seriously?

Did I stutter?
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby shmenguin on Thu May 24, 2012 11:58 am

i assume you think keesel was traded to show that it doesn't matter how high profile or highly paid you are, you need to work hard and have a good attitude. let's say that's true for a sec...

kennedy isn't high profile
kennedy isn't high paid
kennedy works hard
kennedy has a good attitude

so here we are again...how exactly does this relate to the message sent by trading kennedy?
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Pitts on Thu May 24, 2012 12:00 pm

shmenguin wrote:i assume you think keesel was traded to show that it doesn't matter how high profile or highly paid you are, you need to work hard and have a good attitude. let's say that's true for a sec...

kennedy isn't high profile
kennedy isn't high paid
kennedy works hard
kennedy has a good attitude

so here we are again...how exactly does this relate to the message sent by trading kennedy?

I think I clarified that in the part of my post you deleted.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby shmenguin on Thu May 24, 2012 12:07 pm

Pitts wrote:
shmenguin wrote:i assume you think keesel was traded to show that it doesn't matter how high profile or highly paid you are, you need to work hard and have a good attitude. let's say that's true for a sec...

kennedy isn't high profile
kennedy isn't high paid
kennedy works hard
kennedy has a good attitude

so here we are again...how exactly does this relate to the message sent by trading kennedy?

I think I clarified that in the part of my post you deleted.


fair enough. my bad. i can't see through the thick smog of crazy in this thread.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Pitts on Thu May 24, 2012 12:09 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Pitts wrote:
shmenguin wrote:i assume you think keesel was traded to show that it doesn't matter how high profile or highly paid you are, you need to work hard and have a good attitude. let's say that's true for a sec...

kennedy isn't high profile
kennedy isn't high paid
kennedy works hard
kennedy has a good attitude

so here we are again...how exactly does this relate to the message sent by trading kennedy?

I think I clarified that in the part of my post you deleted.


fair enough. my bad. i can't see through the thick smog of crazy in this thread.

:thumb:
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby It'sagreatdayforhockey! on Thu May 24, 2012 3:10 pm

Fire0nice228 wrote:I think the Core is Malkin, Crosby, Neal, Letang, Fluery... IMO everyone else should be available for trade.



I would also add Staal to the list, because I think management wants him in the core. It's up to him to decide if he wants to remain.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby mikey287 on Thu May 24, 2012 3:50 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Pitts wrote:I would say (and agree with the earlier suggestion) that Joe Thornton or Phil Kessel was the most recent example of a guy traded simply to send a message.


seriously?


Well, I remember when Thornton was traded, and I remember exactly the second the Bruins' brass snapped...there was less than a minute left in a game between the Bruins and Devils on November 29, 2005 (nationally televised I believe)...Thornton faced off against John Madden deep in the Boston end, Thornton lost it clean and it went right on the blade of Alexander Mogilny and he blew it right past Andrew Raycroft to win it for New Jersey. At that very second, the Bruins built the team around Patrice Bergeron and gave up on Joe Thornton. They didn't care much for Thornton's on-ice play in the playoffs and his off-ice regiment wasn't exactly the stuff captains were made of...

Is that a message? I don't know exactly. I'm not even sure exactly what that means. But that's what went down.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Malkamaniac on Thu May 24, 2012 4:41 pm

TK should be apart of the core. A player like him can't(read: it can) be found anywhere. :pop:
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby JoseCuervo on Thu May 24, 2012 10:41 pm

TK is more valuable to this team than he is on the trade market
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