UFA Shopping List

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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Malkamaniac on Tue May 22, 2012 4:19 pm

Luckybreak wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:I would imagine all slower bigger bodied guys would have trouble. Billy G was here when they were still playing in partially MT's system. The next year when they were full DB system, people would comment continually on how slow he looked and how quick he lost his ability to hang with people.

Speed kills with this system, and unless you're high talent like Staal, Malkin, and even Neal I'm worried they're getting left behind in the forward unit.


Yeah, the system doesn't make the most of slower players other abilities. Jagr wouldn't have fit this system. Frustrating that we are not as multi-faceted as we should be.


I am not much of a complete overhaul of the system kind of guy. I do wish however that they could work with what they have better. Right now, the speed system works because they have 3 bigger guys who can skate and the rest are quick smaller guys. It hasn't translated well into the play-offs. Teams with some size up front are setting the tones that the Pens can't hang with.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Luckybreak on Tue May 22, 2012 4:22 pm

columbia wrote:It also - apparently - doesn't work in the playoffs.
But hey, they just need to bear down and execute more efficiently and everything will be ok.


They need to 'Get to their game'... :roll:
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Luckybreak on Tue May 22, 2012 4:32 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:
Luckybreak wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:I would imagine all slower bigger bodied guys would have trouble. Billy G was here when they were still playing in partially MT's system. The next year when they were full DB system, people would comment continually on how slow he looked and how quick he lost his ability to hang with people.

Speed kills with this system, and unless you're high talent like Staal, Malkin, and even Neal I'm worried they're getting left behind in the forward unit.


Yeah, the system doesn't make the most of slower players other abilities. Jagr wouldn't have fit this system. Frustrating that we are not as multi-faceted as we should be.


I am not much of a complete overhaul of the system kind of guy. I do wish however that they could work with what they have better. Right now, the speed system works because they have 3 bigger guys who can skate and the rest are quick smaller guys. It hasn't translated well into the play-offs. Teams with some size up front are setting the tones that the Pens can't hang with.


Speed is important but less so if the C&B is back to stay. Perhaps the same system ideals but a more adaptable framework that would translate for the less fleet footed? Big body + great skating is rare, shame to intentionally narrow the market. Slightly slower tempo might mean more energy for the playoffs, seems like home ice is redundant now anyway!
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby MRandall25 on Tue May 22, 2012 4:41 pm

Malkamaniac wrote:
no name wrote:
sil wrote:
columbia wrote:9 goals in his last 84 regular season games. :?


The problem is that he isn't "on" very often.


6'4 245 pounds, has had a 32, 29, 23 and a 21 goal season under his belt. I would take a chance at the right price. A beast like that with SId = protection and i would imagine a 20 goal season. Unless this guy is to slow to skate with Sid, would be a great net front presence on the powerplay.

I have been watching and routing for LA, he looks like he is playing well right now.


My entire fear is that the bigger guys can't handle skating this system, and as we've seen Bylsma is either unwilling to adapt his system, or give these guys the right opportunities to succeed.


All things considered, I thought Mike Rupp fit pretty well.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Pavel Bure on Tue May 22, 2012 5:19 pm

Penner is a creme' puff. Don't let his size fool you. As you said though for the right price sure.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby mikey287 on Tue May 22, 2012 6:07 pm

Dustin Penner - lazy, not very committed to the game, very slow, finds himself on the permieter often despite his size. Having a good playoffs, sure, but he disappears for entire regular seasons...

David Jones - Gritty? I've never heard that describing him before...he's a pretty one-dimensional player, good shot, nifty hands on the fly but not really all that effective of a player and goes through prolonged stretches of inactivity and can't really contribute in any other area...

Rather than sign those 2 for $3+ million each...I'd rather just force Tangradi and Bennett into the lineup and see what comes from it...I'm not a prospect-rusher or "forcer" but I found it to be better than signing Penner or Jones...two very unimpressive players...I mean, you never know, maybe Crosby and Jones have unbelieveable chemisty (like, Hilbert chemistry) and Jones scores 900 goals next year with us, but just given his skillset, I wouldn't guess that to be the case.

I think if we actually had good scouting, we could probably pluck another David Jones out of somewhere...and we already have a prospect that should turn into a better version of Penner with a little development and luck...
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Luckybreak on Tue May 22, 2012 6:18 pm

mikey287 wrote:Dustin Penner - lazy, not very committed to the game, very slow, finds himself on the permieter often despite his size. Having a good playoffs, sure, but he disappears for entire regular seasons...

David Jones - Gritty? I've never heard that describing him before...he's a pretty one-dimensional player, good shot, nifty hands on the fly but not really all that effective of a player and goes through prolonged stretches of inactivity and can't really contribute in any other area...

Rather than sign those 2 for $3+ million each...I'd rather just force Tangradi and Bennett into the lineup and see what comes from it...I'm not a prospect-rusher or "forcer" but I found it to be better than signing Penner or Jones...two very unimpressive players...I mean, you never know, maybe Crosby and Jones have unbelieveable chemisty (like, Hilbert chemistry) and Jones scores 900 goals next year with us, but just given his skillset, I wouldn't guess that to be the case.

I think if we actually had good scouting, we could probably pluck another David Jones out of somewhere...and we already have a prospect that should turn into a better version of Penner with a little development and luck...


So is the board generally leaning towards Tangradi being somewhere in the starting lineup?
Penner's negatives certainly seem to outweigh the potential.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby offsides on Tue May 22, 2012 6:31 pm

Luckybreak wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Dustin Penner - lazy, not very committed to the game, very slow, finds himself on the permieter often despite his size. Having a good playoffs, sure, but he disappears for entire regular seasons...

David Jones - Gritty? I've never heard that describing him before...he's a pretty one-dimensional player, good shot, nifty hands on the fly but not really all that effective of a player and goes through prolonged stretches of inactivity and can't really contribute in any other area...

Rather than sign those 2 for $3+ million each...I'd rather just force Tangradi and Bennett into the lineup and see what comes from it...I'm not a prospect-rusher or "forcer" but I found it to be better than signing Penner or Jones...two very unimpressive players...I mean, you never know, maybe Crosby and Jones have unbelieveable chemisty (like, Hilbert chemistry) and Jones scores 900 goals next year with us, but just given his skillset, I wouldn't guess that to be the case.

I think if we actually had good scouting, we could probably pluck another David Jones out of somewhere...and we already have a prospect that should turn into a better version of Penner with a little development and luck...


So is the board generally leaning towards Tangradi being somewhere in the starting lineup?
Penner's negatives certainly seem to outweigh the potential.


This part of the board can't see ET bringing much of anything. IMO, if we have to rely on him, we will be disappointed. He has a long way to go to make even the fourth line. Plus, it is hard to excel when you seem to constantly be in the DB doghouse and get very limited TOI.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby BigMcK on Tue May 22, 2012 6:42 pm

offsides wrote:
Luckybreak wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Dustin Penner - lazy, not very committed to the game, very slow, finds himself on the permieter often despite his size. Having a good playoffs, sure, but he disappears for entire regular seasons...

David Jones - Gritty? I've never heard that describing him before...he's a pretty one-dimensional player, good shot, nifty hands on the fly but not really all that effective of a player and goes through prolonged stretches of inactivity and can't really contribute in any other area...

Rather than sign those 2 for $3+ million each...I'd rather just force Tangradi and Bennett into the lineup and see what comes from it...I'm not a prospect-rusher or "forcer" but I found it to be better than signing Penner or Jones...two very unimpressive players...I mean, you never know, maybe Crosby and Jones have unbelieveable chemisty (like, Hilbert chemistry) and Jones scores 900 goals next year with us, but just given his skillset, I wouldn't guess that to be the case.

I think if we actually had good scouting, we could probably pluck another David Jones out of somewhere...and we already have a prospect that should turn into a better version of Penner with a little development and luck...


So is the board generally leaning towards Tangradi being somewhere in the starting lineup?
Penner's negatives certainly seem to outweigh the potential.


This part of the board can't see ET bringing much of anything. IMO, if we have to rely on him, we will be disappointed. He has a long way to go to make even the fourth line. Plus, it is hard to excel when you seem to constantly be in the DB doghouse and get very limited TOI.


Assuming he is only going to live in HCDB's doghouse, then his value as an NHL player will never be known or nurtured. And if he isn't going to get a chance under this coach, then move him. His value is probably greater in a package deal than as a single player.

This side of the board saw him dig for pucks in the corner and muscle his way to the net with zero point gratification in the playoffs. Old cliche, but can't teach size.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby MRandall25 on Tue May 22, 2012 6:49 pm

BigMcK wrote:
offsides wrote:
Luckybreak wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Dustin Penner - lazy, not very committed to the game, very slow, finds himself on the permieter often despite his size. Having a good playoffs, sure, but he disappears for entire regular seasons...

David Jones - Gritty? I've never heard that describing him before...he's a pretty one-dimensional player, good shot, nifty hands on the fly but not really all that effective of a player and goes through prolonged stretches of inactivity and can't really contribute in any other area...

Rather than sign those 2 for $3+ million each...I'd rather just force Tangradi and Bennett into the lineup and see what comes from it...I'm not a prospect-rusher or "forcer" but I found it to be better than signing Penner or Jones...two very unimpressive players...I mean, you never know, maybe Crosby and Jones have unbelieveable chemisty (like, Hilbert chemistry) and Jones scores 900 goals next year with us, but just given his skillset, I wouldn't guess that to be the case.

I think if we actually had good scouting, we could probably pluck another David Jones out of somewhere...and we already have a prospect that should turn into a better version of Penner with a little development and luck...


So is the board generally leaning towards Tangradi being somewhere in the starting lineup?
Penner's negatives certainly seem to outweigh the potential.


This part of the board can't see ET bringing much of anything. IMO, if we have to rely on him, we will be disappointed. He has a long way to go to make even the fourth line. Plus, it is hard to excel when you seem to constantly be in the DB doghouse and get very limited TOI.


Assuming he is only going to live in HCDB's doghouse, then his value as an NHL player will never be known or nurtured. And if he isn't going to get a chance under this coach, then move him. His value is probably greater in a package deal than as a single player.

This side of the board saw him dig for pucks in the corner and muscle his way to the net with zero point gratification in the playoffs. Old cliche, but can't teach size.


Why do we bring up the "if we give him a chance" crap every time Tangradi is discussed?

He's getting his chance. You earn minutes. He hasn't earned them. Period.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby mikey287 on Tue May 22, 2012 6:49 pm

He can play on the fourth line in the NHL right now. There are worse players in the league than him right now. His upside remains very much in question of course, but you know what the hockey book says on page 364, paragraph 2 about power forwards...

I mean, Ryan Malone didn't crack the NHL until 24 I think...and he only cracked one of the worst teams in the past decade (or longer). Tangradi isn't 24 yet. Am I completely not concerned with his development? No, I am somewhat concerned. But am I panicked? Nah. Two reasons, we can probably salvage a 3rd or 4th for him if push came to shove. 3rd at the draft, 4th before the season starts next year. And Kunitz for Whitney still worked out, I feel. I have a weird way of reverse justifying it also...Tangradi was a highly-thought-of thrown-in in the Kunitz/Whitney deal and didn't work (assuming here) and Niskanen was an afterthought thrown-in in the Neal/Goligoski trade and panned out well (whether we sign him or not). I'm content with that.

I think Tangradi will crack the opening day roster next season.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby tfrizz on Tue May 22, 2012 7:25 pm

mikey287 wrote:He can play on the fourth line in the NHL right now. There are worse players in the league than him right now. His upside remains very much in question of course, but you know what the hockey book says on page 364, paragraph 2 about power forwards...

I mean, Ryan Malone didn't crack the NHL until 24 I think...and he only cracked one of the worst teams in the past decade (or longer). Tangradi isn't 24 yet. Am I completely not concerned with his development? No, I am somewhat concerned. But am I panicked? Nah. Two reasons, we can probably salvage a 3rd or 4th for him if push came to shove. 3rd at the draft, 4th before the season starts next year. And Kunitz for Whitney still worked out, I feel. I have a weird way of reverse justifying it also...Tangradi was a highly-thought-of thrown-in in the Kunitz/Whitney deal and didn't work (assuming here) and Niskanen was an afterthought thrown-in in the Neal/Goligoski trade and panned out well (whether we sign him or not). I'm content with that.

I think Tangradi will crack the opening day roster next season.


Tangradi appears to be on the right track. He seemed to improve with every game he played late in the season and into the playoffs. A little work on his skating and conditioning over the summer, and he'll have a legitimate chance to crack the lineup.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby offsides on Tue May 22, 2012 7:42 pm

tfrizz wrote:
mikey287 wrote:He can play on the fourth line in the NHL right now. There are worse players in the league than him right now. His upside remains very much in question of course, but you know what the hockey book says on page 364, paragraph 2 about power forwards...

I mean, Ryan Malone didn't crack the NHL until 24 I think...and he only cracked one of the worst teams in the past decade (or longer). Tangradi isn't 24 yet. Am I completely not concerned with his development? No, I am somewhat concerned. But am I panicked? Nah. Two reasons, we can probably salvage a 3rd or 4th for him if push came to shove. 3rd at the draft, 4th before the season starts next year. And Kunitz for Whitney still worked out, I feel. I have a weird way of reverse justifying it also...Tangradi was a highly-thought-of thrown-in in the Kunitz/Whitney deal and didn't work (assuming here) and Niskanen was an afterthought thrown-in in the Neal/Goligoski trade and panned out well (whether we sign him or not). I'm content with that.

I think Tangradi will crack the opening day roster next season.


Tangradi appears to be on the right track. He seemed to improve with every game he played late in the season and into the playoffs. A little work on his skating and conditioning over the summer, and he'll have a legitimate chance to crack the lineup.


You guys could be right but I think he will be an injury call-up. I can still remember when everyone had him penciled in as Sid's winger. We will find out come October. I hope I am proven wrong, crow doesn't taste all that bad. Especially if he finally breaks out and plays like an NHL power forward.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby mikey287 on Tue May 22, 2012 7:50 pm

My once-pronounced CBA knowledge is fleeting (just in time for a new one...huzzah?) but I believe we're at that special time in a young player's career where he's waiver eligible. I know he's not at the GP for it, but I think it's 4 years now (going into 2012-13) since he's signed and I think that puts him in the red for waivers, so to speak. I wouldn't assume that he would clear waivers, but more accurately, I don't think the organization would subject him to waivers either. I think he's on the NHL team, at least to start the year - dressed or not.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby tfrizz on Tue May 22, 2012 8:21 pm

mikey287 wrote:My once-pronounced CBA knowledge is fleeting (just in time for a new one...huzzah?) but I believe we're at that special time in a young player's career where he's waiver eligible. I know he's not at the GP for it, but I think it's 4 years now (going into 2012-13) since he's signed and I think that puts him in the red for waivers, so to speak. I wouldn't assume that he would clear waivers, but more accurately, I don't think the organization would subject him to waivers either. I think he's on the NHL team, at least to start the year - dressed or not.


Good point. I don't see them letting another prospect fall victim to the waiver wire, so if Tangradi is now waiver-eligible then there won't be any bouncing around.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby columbia on Tue May 22, 2012 8:29 pm

Assuming Tangradi makes the roster, he will be next year's Dustin Jeffrey, through Jeffrey had shown a lot more *NHL* promise before his injury. (I still wonder if Jeffrey was flash in the pan category or the effects of his surgery were too great for him to be effective this past year.): A marginal player that you keep around, because you will lose him otherwise.

We'll see what he has to offer and let's hope folks have gotten over their interest in penciling him on Crosby's wing.
I'm not expecting much...that's for sure.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby JoseCuervo on Tue May 22, 2012 8:52 pm

Tangradi can effectively play on the fourth line and probably the third line in the future. He hasn't shown very good offensive abilities or instincts to be a scoring winger on this team- his 1 career goal went off of someone's skate. That said, he is learning to grind on the bottom line which is at least some contribution.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby mikey287 on Tue May 22, 2012 9:18 pm

Honestly, I'm not sure I ever loved Dustin Jeffrey. I'm more excited for Tangradi (even if it's all suspense) than Jeffrey. Is Dustin Jeffrey any more of an impact player than, say, Tom Wandell...? Never really that impressed...but I hope I'm wrong and he becomes a 50-goal scorer...nothing better than eating crow on Penguins prospects the "good" way...not the Milan Kraft, Ross Lupaschuk way... :cry:
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Samsdog on Tue May 22, 2012 9:27 pm

What about Paul Gaustad? He's a very good two-way player that could slot into the third-lilne center spot nicely if they are going to move away from the the big three, and might be able to shift to the wing if not.

At this point I'd like to see Kennedy shipped out, if only to send the message to the players not to get too comfortable with their spots after this string of early exits. He's been on the roster long enough that getting rid of him would send that message and as an interchangeable spare part that sees next to no special teams time giving his spot to a gritty player that can log time on the PK and win draws would be a good idea I think. Commence ripping me to shreds.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Streaks House on Tue May 22, 2012 9:37 pm

Samsdog wrote:What about Paul Gaustad? He's a very good two-way player that could slot into the third-lilne center spot nicely if they are going to move away from the the big three, and might be able to shift to the wing if not.

At this point I'd like to see Kennedy shipped out, if only to send the message to the players not to get too comfortable with their spots after this string of early exits. He's been on the roster long enough that getting rid of him would send that message and as an interchangeable spare part that sees next to no special teams time giving his spot to a gritty player that can log time on the PK and win draws would be a good idea I think. Commence ripping me to shreds.


Gaustad will certainly have suitors. Question is, how much would GMRS have to overpay to sign him?
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby mikey287 on Tue May 22, 2012 9:41 pm

Like Staal, Gaustad makes the most sense at center given his play style. He's not a bad idea in a vacuum. It won't be easy replacing Staal if that's the direction we go. Gaustad is a guy to look at, but it really depends on the style we're going with, ya know? What are your goals (not asking you in particular) for the team?

Kennedy is replaceable, but he's such a work-a-holic all the time that's it weird that he'd get singled out. With the amount of work-a-hol he's consumed since being a Penguin, it seems odd that he'd be made example of. Was I wild about his play this season? No. But I'm comfortable with TK because I've never had any illusions about what he is...unlike some people. Again, it depends on what this team wants to become will dictate the value of a player like Kennedy to us. He has limited value throughout the league, so you (again, no one in particular) can say which players you want gone but be prepared for what little you get back for the players that you don't like...gotta pay to play most of the time...
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby no name on Tue May 22, 2012 9:51 pm

I think its time you give Tangradi and extended look on a top line and see what comes of it. He is a good AHL player, he never gets a long look on a top line. He might be one of thoes guys that he can't produce without talent around him. Even if he plays with Staal he is in a position to play with someone.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Samsdog on Tue May 22, 2012 9:54 pm

mikey287 wrote:Like Staal, Gaustad makes the most sense at center given his play style. He's not a bad idea in a vacuum. It won't be easy replacing Staal if that's the direction we go. Gaustad is a guy to look at, but it really depends on the style we're going with, ya know? What are your goals (not asking you in particular) for the team?

Kennedy is replaceable, but he's such a work-a-holic all the time that's it weird that he'd get singled out. With the amount of work-a-hol he's consumed since being a Penguin, it seems odd that he'd be made example of. Was I wild about his play this season? No. But I'm comfortable with TK because I've never had any illusions about what he is...unlike some people. Again, it depends on what this team wants to become will dictate the value of a player like Kennedy to us. He has limited value throughout the league, so you (again, no one in particular) can say which players you want gone but be prepared for what little you get back for the players that you don't like...gotta pay to play most of the time...


It's difficult to single anyone from the forward corps out really. Yes in retrospect it would have been nice to see Kunitz chip in some more offense and such but I don't think it was for lack of effort. But the defensive game wasn't up to par and although the defense corps was atrocious they weren't done any favors in terms of back checking and the like. So I guess the question becomes whether you just accept that it was a flaw with the system that led to the forwards leaving the defense without a ton of support and do nothing but lecture Dan or try to send a message. If you're sending the message, who do you single out to dump? Not saying it was anyone's fault because it starts and probably finishes with the coaching but short of firing him I don't know what you can do to re-establish the commitment to defense.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Samsdog on Tue May 22, 2012 9:56 pm

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that I have the right answer or even that I'm married to the idea of dumping Kennedy; I'd only do it for an upgrade and maybe not even then. It's the same difficulty I imagine that GMRS will have deciding what went wrong and deal with it without just dismissing the failures as the defensemen's fault and no one else's.
Last edited by Samsdog on Tue May 22, 2012 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UFA Shopping List

Postby Drewski17 on Tue May 22, 2012 9:56 pm

My list would definitely include kenopka and gaustad.

Move Staal up to 2nd line.

Instantly makes our bottom six bigger and tougher and they are 2 great face-off guys.
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