To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby Malkamaniac on Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:31 pm

sil wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:I will say that *IF* Staal gets moved this year and a center doesn't come back in return. I hope they make a run at Gaustad.


I still feel that guys like Jay McClement or Jim Slater would work out much better. They won't score as much as Guastad, but not by much, and it's not like he's some dynamic offensive player anyway. Defensively they're just as good, if not better...and frankly either will be $2,000,000 or so cheaper against the cap.


I'm fine with whatever, I'd prefer some size on the lower lines. Teams make their money in the playoffs by being big and physical. Size was killer this year with guys who have talent.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby SolidSnake on Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:13 pm

I'm still hopeing for the: "GM Ray Shero told Craig Adams that he won't be coming back."
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby Defence21 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:19 pm

SolidSnake wrote:I'm still hopeing for the: "GM Ray Shero told Craig Adams that he won't be coming back."

Why get rid of a 4th liner making next to nothing (any replacement would cost more and many would be less effective) who is one of the top penalty killers on the team? Is it because he's "slow?" Last I checked, he was doing just fine. It makes no sense to get rid of Adams. Regardless, he has one year left on his contract and would have to be traded or waived. Not happening.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby SolidSnake on Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:22 pm

Defence21 wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:I'm still hopeing for the: "GM Ray Shero told Craig Adams that he won't be coming back."

Why get rid of a 4th liner making next to nothing (any replacement would cost more and many would be less effective) who is one of the top penalty killers on the team? Is it because he's "slow?" Last I checked, he was doing just fine. It makes no sense to get rid of Adams. Regardless, he has one year left on his contract and would have to be traded or waived. Not happening.

I thought he was a UFA :scared: What good is he other then penalty killing? why waste a roster spot on him? I guess until Byslma is gone then Adams is going nowhere
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby Defence21 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:25 pm

SolidSnake wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:I'm still hopeing for the: "GM Ray Shero told Craig Adams that he won't be coming back."

Why get rid of a 4th liner making next to nothing (any replacement would cost more and many would be less effective) who is one of the top penalty killers on the team? Is it because he's "slow?" Last I checked, he was doing just fine. It makes no sense to get rid of Adams. Regardless, he has one year left on his contract and would have to be traded or waived. Not happening.

I thought he was a UFA :scared: What good is he other then penalty killing? why waste a roster spot on him? I guess until Byslma is gone then Adams is going nowhere

The PK is a very important element to the game -- and he's one of the better forwards on the team at it. He's not terrible at even strength, either. For what he makes, he's a perfect fit for the team. I'm not saying he's a god or anything, but I just don't understand the dislike many have for him.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:29 pm

Defence21 wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:I'm still hopeing for the: "GM Ray Shero told Craig Adams that he won't be coming back."

Why get rid of a 4th liner making next to nothing (any replacement would cost more and many would be less effective) who is one of the top penalty killers on the team? Is it because he's "slow?" Last I checked, he was doing just fine. It makes no sense to get rid of Adams. Regardless, he has one year left on his contract and would have to be traded or waived. Not happening.

I thought he was a UFA :scared: What good is he other then penalty killing? why waste a roster spot on him? I guess until Byslma is gone then Adams is going nowhere

The PK is a very important element to the game -- and he's one of the better forwards on the team at it. He's not terrible at even strength, either. For what he makes, he's a perfect fit for the team. I'm not saying he's a god or anything, but I just don't understand the dislike many have for him.


no, he definitely is.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby sil on Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:34 pm

Adams (who has one year left @ $675,000) is perfect as a 13th forward for us...plus, at this point in his career, Craig could ride waivers to and back from WB/S if, say, Jeffrey, had a huge turnaround in camp and earned a spot over him.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:09 pm

DontToewsMeBro wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:I'm still hopeing for the: "GM Ray Shero told Craig Adams that he won't be coming back."

Why get rid of a 4th liner making next to nothing (any replacement would cost more and many would be less effective) who is one of the top penalty killers on the team? Is it because he's "slow?" Last I checked, he was doing just fine. It makes no sense to get rid of Adams. Regardless, he has one year left on his contract and would have to be traded or waived. Not happening.

I thought he was a UFA :scared: What good is he other then penalty killing? why waste a roster spot on him? I guess until Byslma is gone then Adams is going nowhere

The PK is a very important element to the game -- and he's one of the better forwards on the team at it. He's not terrible at even strength, either. For what he makes, he's a perfect fit for the team. I'm not saying he's a god or anything, but I just don't understand the dislike many have for him.


no, he definitely is.


yeah, adams is pretty terrible at ES. i won't even bring up speed. the bigger issue is how our 4th line has been trapped in their own end regularly over the last 2 years. not to mention his lack of discipline in the playoffs (game 1 - end of 2nd period. adams starts scrumming for some f'n reason and the whole vibe turns on that point). and he was one of the guys guilty of getting too fancy once sid came back. that's inexcusable for him. the penalty kill effort in the playoffs doesn't exactly help his cause either.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby Defence21 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:10 pm

DontToewsMeBro wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:I'm still hopeing for the: "GM Ray Shero told Craig Adams that he won't be coming back."

Why get rid of a 4th liner making next to nothing (any replacement would cost more and many would be less effective) who is one of the top penalty killers on the team? Is it because he's "slow?" Last I checked, he was doing just fine. It makes no sense to get rid of Adams. Regardless, he has one year left on his contract and would have to be traded or waived. Not happening.

I thought he was a UFA :scared: What good is he other then penalty killing? why waste a roster spot on him? I guess until Byslma is gone then Adams is going nowhere

The PK is a very important element to the game -- and he's one of the better forwards on the team at it. He's not terrible at even strength, either. For what he makes, he's a perfect fit for the team. I'm not saying he's a god or anything, but I just don't understand the dislike many have for him.


no, he definitely is.

Really? I see a typical fourth liner who plays 8:24 per game at even strength and gets by relatively unnoticed. His +/- won't look great because the fourth line rarely scores, but his play overall can't be quantified by stats. Despite what some have said, he remains physical, he averages the third most PK icetime on the team (first among forwards, including Staal), and he is cheap. What, exactly, makes him so terrible? And is it really that bad that washes out his PK success?
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:12 pm

Defence21 wrote: And is it really that bad that washes out his PK success?


probably not, since 4th lines aren't that important, but like you said, stats can't represent how he plays at even strength. so they won't show how bad he is.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby Defence21 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:36 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Defence21 wrote: And is it really that bad that washes out his PK success?


probably not, since 4th lines aren't that important, but like you said, stats can't represent how he plays at even strength. so they won't show how bad he is.

But what makes him so bad? That's what I don't get. He remains defensively responsible and physical and even contributes a few occasional points. As a PK specialist, he's worth the money for that alone. He's not a liability at even strength, though he might be as good as he once was. But again, what the positives he brings to the PK far outweigh any negatives that he may (though I disagree) bring at even strength.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby MRandall25 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:44 pm

SolidSnake wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:I'm still hopeing for the: "GM Ray Shero told Craig Adams that he won't be coming back."

Why get rid of a 4th liner making next to nothing (any replacement would cost more and many would be less effective) who is one of the top penalty killers on the team? Is it because he's "slow?" Last I checked, he was doing just fine. It makes no sense to get rid of Adams. Regardless, he has one year left on his contract and would have to be traded or waived. Not happening.

I thought he was a UFA :scared: What good is he other then penalty killing? why waste a roster spot on him? I guess until Byslma is gone then Adams is going nowhere


Why would we waste a roster spot on Tangradi, who can't PK or do anything else?
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:09 pm

Defence21 wrote:But what makes him so bad? That's what I don't get. He remains defensively responsible and physical and even contributes a few occasional points. As a PK specialist, he's worth the money for that alone. He's not a liability at even strength, though he might be as good as he once was. But again, what the positives he brings to the PK far outweigh any negatives that he may (though I disagree) bring at even strength.


so offensively, his situation speaks for itself. he isn't skilled, he can't cycle, can't pass, can't shoot, etc. that much is clear. he's probably one of the least talented hockey players in the league - even for a 4th liner. but like you say, that's an ok tradeoff for a pk specialist. what isn't ok is that he's an ineffective forechecker. i don't think there are stats that back this up. actually, the stats may even tell a different story if he has a lot of hits, but he's not doing anything meaningful. maybe the best way to put it is that our 4th line doesn't have momentum-changing shifts by wrecking people or by getting a little sustained pressure - even if it doesn't result in a goal. maybe it's not his fault, but he's a part of that equation.

defensively, adams is good when he's on the pk and doesn't have to cover a wide range of ice or play a 2-way game. and he's a hell of a shot blocker. but at even strength, it gets dicey. sometimes you need to skate out of pressure, make a slick pass, or win a race for a puck along the boards. these are things that get hidden when you're on the pk and just swat the puck out of the zone whenever it's in reach. so this is where i have issues with him. he gets easily trapped. even once he's out of the neutral zone, we've seen simple breakouts or dump ins turn into nightmares. but this of course is another thing where stats don't show it. the 4th line has (imo) certainly been a liability at even strength. whether adams is a big part of that or a small part is up for interpretation, but that's where i stand.

the tide turned when our pk went to hell in the playoffs. at that point, adams became totally useless. since that's the freshest memory, that's what will linger with people. if he can come back and be an elite penalty killer, then fine. if not, he's not worth it. there are younger, faster, stronger bulls who can come in and give you the 6 minutes adams gives you at ES - and more.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby Defence21 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:24 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Defence21 wrote:But what makes him so bad? That's what I don't get. He remains defensively responsible and physical and even contributes a few occasional points. As a PK specialist, he's worth the money for that alone. He's not a liability at even strength, though he might be as good as he once was. But again, what the positives he brings to the PK far outweigh any negatives that he may (though I disagree) bring at even strength.


so offensively, his situation speaks for itself. he isn't skilled, he can't cycle, can't pass, can't shoot, etc. that much is clear. he's probably one of the least talented hockey players in the league - even for a 4th liner. but like you say, that's an ok tradeoff for a pk specialist. what isn't ok is that he's an ineffective forechecker. i don't think there are stats that back this up. actually, the stats may even tell a different story if he has a lot of hits, but he's not doing anything meaningful. maybe the best way to put it is that our 4th line doesn't have momentum-changing shifts by wrecking people or by getting a little sustained pressure - even if it doesn't result in a goal. maybe it's not his fault, but he's a part of that equation.

defensively, adams is good when he's on the pk and doesn't have to cover a wide range of ice or play a 2-way game. and he's a hell of a shot blocker. but at even strength, it gets dicey. sometimes you need to skate out of pressure, make a slick pass, or win a race for a puck along the boards. these are things that get hidden when you're on the pk and just swat the puck out of the zone whenever it's in reach. so this is where i have issues with him. he gets easily trapped. even once he's out of the neutral zone, we've seen simple breakouts or dump ins turn into nightmares. but this of course is another thing where stats don't show it. the 4th line has (imo) certainly been a liability at even strength. whether adams is a big part of that or a small part is up for interpretation, but that's where i stand.

the tide turned when our pk went to hell in the playoffs. at that point, adams became totally useless. since that's the freshest memory, that's what will linger with people. if he can come back and be an elite penalty killer, then fine. if not, he's not worth it. there are younger, faster, stronger bulls who can come in and give you the 6 minutes adams gives you at ES - and more.

That's what I was looking for -- and it's an argument I can respect and understand, though i don't agree with it. I think someone (maybe in this thread, maybe in another) put it well -- Adams and Asham both are slower players who shouldn't be on the ice together. Alone, each is fine on the fourth line -- but together, the line just gets bogged down too much. Being that Asham is a UFA and Adams is signed (plus the fact that he kills penalties), it makes sense to let Asham walk (as much as I like him) and replace him with a younger, speedier, harder-hitting player who also can kill penalties. A line of Adams, Vitale, and a speedy/physical winger would be a good mix, in my opinion.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby shmenguin on Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:33 pm

Defence21 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Defence21 wrote:But what makes him so bad? That's what I don't get. He remains defensively responsible and physical and even contributes a few occasional points. As a PK specialist, he's worth the money for that alone. He's not a liability at even strength, though he might be as good as he once was. But again, what the positives he brings to the PK far outweigh any negatives that he may (though I disagree) bring at even strength.


so offensively, his situation speaks for itself. he isn't skilled, he can't cycle, can't pass, can't shoot, etc. that much is clear. he's probably one of the least talented hockey players in the league - even for a 4th liner. but like you say, that's an ok tradeoff for a pk specialist. what isn't ok is that he's an ineffective forechecker. i don't think there are stats that back this up. actually, the stats may even tell a different story if he has a lot of hits, but he's not doing anything meaningful. maybe the best way to put it is that our 4th line doesn't have momentum-changing shifts by wrecking people or by getting a little sustained pressure - even if it doesn't result in a goal. maybe it's not his fault, but he's a part of that equation.

defensively, adams is good when he's on the pk and doesn't have to cover a wide range of ice or play a 2-way game. and he's a hell of a shot blocker. but at even strength, it gets dicey. sometimes you need to skate out of pressure, make a slick pass, or win a race for a puck along the boards. these are things that get hidden when you're on the pk and just swat the puck out of the zone whenever it's in reach. so this is where i have issues with him. he gets easily trapped. even once he's out of the neutral zone, we've seen simple breakouts or dump ins turn into nightmares. but this of course is another thing where stats don't show it. the 4th line has (imo) certainly been a liability at even strength. whether adams is a big part of that or a small part is up for interpretation, but that's where i stand.

the tide turned when our pk went to hell in the playoffs. at that point, adams became totally useless. since that's the freshest memory, that's what will linger with people. if he can come back and be an elite penalty killer, then fine. if not, he's not worth it. there are younger, faster, stronger bulls who can come in and give you the 6 minutes adams gives you at ES - and more.

That's what I was looking for -- and it's an argument I can respect and understand, though i don't agree with it. I think someone (maybe in this thread, maybe in another) put it well -- Adams and Asham both are slower players who shouldn't be on the ice together. Alone, each is fine on the fourth line -- but together, the line just gets bogged down too much. Being that Asham is a UFA and Adams is signed (plus the fact that he kills penalties), it makes sense to let Asham walk (as much as I like him) and replace him with a younger, speedier, harder-hitting player who also can kill penalties. A line of Adams, Vitale, and a speedy/physical winger would be a good mix, in my opinion.


i've said before that the 2 shouldn't be on the ice together because of their lack of speed. i said the same thing when rupp was on that line, too. but i do admit that it's possible that adams might just be dragged down by the company he keeps.

and in fairness, i think our set of forwards as a whole is pretty awesome, so it's harder for adams to look good in comparison.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby sil on Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:18 pm

To get this thread going again ( ;^) ...

Assuming a cap of $70,300,000...

(1) Trade Paul Martin to Colorado for their 4th pick in 2012, and their 2nd pick in 2013.

(2) Sign UFA's Shane Doan (2 years, $8,000,000), Bryan Allen (3 years, $11,500,000), and Jay McClement (2 years, $3,500,000).

(3) Re-sign Sid Crosby (10 years, $90,000,000), and Jordan Staal (5 years, $27,500,000).

LW Kunitz | C Malkin | RW Neal
LW Doan ($4,000,000) | C Crosby (UFA in 2013 - $9,000,000) | RW Staal (UFA in 2013 - $5,500,000)
LW Dupuis (UFA in 2013) | C McClement ($1,750,000) | RW Kennedy (RFA in 2013)
LW Cooke (UFA in 2013) | C Vitale | RW Tangradi ($875,000)
x Adams (UFA in 2013)

Letang | Allen ($3,833,333)
Orpik | Michalek
Niskanen ($2,000,000) | Despres
x Engellend (UFA in 2013)

Fleury
Vokoun

Total of $68,765,000 against the cap, leaving $1,535,000 free.

$61,973,333 against the cap in 2013-14, with (4) forwards, and (1) defenseman to sign/replace. All four forwards are bottom-6 skaters (Dupuis, Kennedy, Cooke, Adams), and the lone defenseman is Engellend. That leaves $7,000,000 +/- (after adding in Crosby and Staal's salary increases) to sign those (5) players if the cap stays the same. Should leave plenty of room to re-up Malkin for the start of the 2014-15 season.
Last edited by sil on Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby shmenguin on Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:06 pm

congratulations on making the first trade proposal of 2012 that doesn't involve tyler kennedy
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby Malkamaniac on Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:18 pm

I would trade Tyler Kennedy for an enforcer.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby sil on Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:20 pm

shmenguin wrote:congratulations on making the first trade proposal of 2012 that doesn't involve tyler kennedy


Yet (in SNL Celebrity Jepoardy mocking of Keanu Reeves voice).
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby SolidSnake on Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:25 pm

Forget Slater, he's back with the jets
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby Malkamaniac on Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:47 pm

SolidSnake wrote:Forget Slater, he's back with the jets

Signed an affordable deal too.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby sil on Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:49 am

Malkamaniac wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:Forget Slater, he's back with the jets

Signed an affordable deal too.


I've updated my roster above.

Slater
McClement
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby sil on Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:50 am

shmenguin wrote:congratulations on making the first trade proposal of 2012 that doesn't involve tyler kennedy


Or, perhaps we can trade him to Winnipeg for Jim Slater. :pop:
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby Pitts on Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:52 am

sil wrote:LW Kunitz | C Malkin | RW Neal
LW Doan ($4,000,000) | C Crosby (UFA in 2013 - $9,000,000) | RW Staal (UFA in 2013 - $5,500,000)
LW Dupuis (UFA in 2013) | C McClement ($1,750,000) | RW Kennedy (RFA in 2013)
LW Cooke (UFA in 2013) | C Vitale | RW Tangradi ($875,000)
x Adams (UFA in 2013)

Letang | Allen ($3,833,333)
Orpik | Michalek
Niskanen ($2,000,000) | Despres
x Engellend (UFA in 2013)

Fleury
Vokoun

Nice work sil! And what a friggin lineup! Doan alone is worth it.
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Re: To-do-list for GM Ray Shero

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:26 pm

I posed this in another thread. It revolves around Staal staying on and playing in the top six. Trying to be slightly more realistic this time:

Sign Mikael Samuelsson to a 1 year $2M salary, or possibly two years.
Sign Dominic Moore to 1 year $1M to $1.5M.

Neal-Malkin-Kunitz
Staal-Sid-Dupuis
Cooke-Moore-Samuelsson
Tangradi-Vitale-Kennedy

The way I have the top six listed is not set, just listing them there. Obviously other combinations are possible.

I think this gives us an incredibly balanced line-up capable of rolling four lines very effectively.

As far as the defense, I haven't gotten there. I think we have to wait and see with how the Martin situation pans out. However, I'd love somehow bring Bryan Allen into the line-up.
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