A question for all you knowledgable folks...

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A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby Vegasfan on Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:18 am

Hi,

Still newish to hockey, but trying to learn the ins and outs.

I know that July 1st is the first day that the Pens can work out a deal with Crosby and someone like Parise or Suter.

My question is why didn't that date apply to Staal also? Why didn't they have to wait until July 1st to offer him that 10 year contract and why can't they offer that to Crosby right now?

Thanks in advance for your time :)

(Making my first trip to Pittsburgh in March for the Islanders/Flyers weekend....can't wait!!)
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby Bunkerman535 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:58 pm

The Penguins still had Staal under contract for another season and were negotiating an extension, ( actually a new 10 year reported $60 million deal).
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby columbia on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:00 pm

It's a great game and I hope you have a good time in March.
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby blurryhaze312 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:06 pm

They probably are working on the deal with Sid, if it isn't finalized already. They just can't make it official until July 1. Staal was in the same situation - had he accepted it wouldn't have been official until Sunday.
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby DesertPenguin on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:06 pm

His question actually is valid.

The same rules apply/applied to both Crosby and Staal. The Pens had both of them under contract for the coming season, and were free to discuss a deal with both, but the contracts cannot officially be offered and signed unil July 1st of the year before their contracts expire. They hammer out terms and have a handshake agreement on what the contract will be, then sign the dotted line the minute free agency begins. If, over the course of that season, they don't ever agree on a deal, then they would become Unrestricted Free Agents, free to sign with anyone on July 1st 2013.

Make sense?
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:09 pm

Welcome to the board.
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby JeffDFD on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:22 pm

Pretty sure there is a rule that you can't negotiate extensions until a year before current contract expires as well...so that's why no one is talking to Malkin yet. Around this year next time...you will hear about the talks to extend Malkin.

Currently, other teams are trying to extend their current unrestricted free agents...they were not able or did not want to negotiate the year prior...that is why everyone wants to sign Parise...because his contract is over as of July 1 and anyone can sign him. Devils should have extended him last year (if he was willing)
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby Fire0nice228 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:29 pm

Yeah but Staal has one year left on his deal so his year doesnt officially kick in until Sunday July 1st.. so hes actually still beyond 365 days from his contract expiring. Maybe they can talk (i assume) but nothing can be official (signed on the dotted line) until 1 year before the contract expires (which would be Sunday).

??

Hurricanes GM Jim Rutherford plans to start negotiations with Jordan Staal for a contract extension this summer.
Staal, who Carolina acquired from Pittsburgh on Friday, is scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2013. He rejected the Penguins 10-year offer believed to be worth $60 million before the trade, but Carolina is hoping that he'll be more willing to talk with them. The advantage that Carolina has is that Staal's brother, Eric, is already a major player within their organization. The prospect of playing with his brother for years could be enough to convince Jordan to sign with the Hurricanes. Jun 23 - 9:54 AM
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby owtahear on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:34 pm

For the last time.....

It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins. It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins. It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins. It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins. It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the PenguinIt wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins.
It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins. It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins. It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins. It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins. It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the PenguinIt wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins.
It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins. It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins. It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins. It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins. It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the PenguinIt wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins.
It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins. It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins. It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins. It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins. It wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the PenguinIt wasn't about the Penguin offer. It was about the role the Staal was going to play with the Penguins.
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:37 pm

I don't think that was ever the question.
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby Fire0nice228 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:39 pm

Did you even read the question ? The question has nothing to do with Staal signing or not signing, the trade, his role, the money, NONE OF THAT ,but to do with regards to when teams can negotiate and when they cannot.

:face: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby offsides on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:41 pm

This board has turned rather ugly lately. Maybe it is hockey withdrawl.
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby Durbano on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:45 pm

They should have offered multiple rolls to the Staal

Image
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby JeanPronovost on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:57 pm

I wondered the same thing. I didn't think they were allowed to negotiate with Crosby or Staal until July 1. If that's not the case, I wonder why they didn't make their offer to Staal a lot sooner so that they weren't right up against the draft when he turned it down.

I'm satisfied with how it turned out, I guess I just didn't understand what could be done before July 1.
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby DesertPenguin on Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:21 pm

Shero was quoted a while back as saying they can talk terms, get a framework, but can't officially sign anything until 1 year prior to the contract expiration date. Even so, it doesn't kick in until after the previous deal expires. Sid will have a cap hit of 8.7 million this season, and his new cap hit will kick in the following year.

This is different than negotiating a contract with a soon to be UFA from another team. Parise, for example. We can't talk to him, general or specific, until July 1st. That's tampering and against team rules since he belongs to the Devils till July 1st. You can't be punished for tampering with yourself though, so you can talk to your own people.
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby orpchar on Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:33 pm

Sounds like the question has already been answered, but maybe this will help:

Teams can negotiate with their own pending free agents at any time, but cannot make the deal official until the final year of the contract starts (i.e. a contract expiring in Summer 2013 can't be extended until July 1, 2012.)

Once July 1 hits, anyone whose contract expired is now a free agent and they can negotiate with anyone. (Restricted Free Agents are a whole different animal, these are usually players coming off of their entry-level contract.)

Before July 1, it is possible for teams to trade for a player's negotiating rights, if they really want to get a leg up on negotiations. For instance, if the Devils didn't feel like they were going to work out a new contract with Parise, they could trade him to another team BEFORE July 1, and that team would have exclusive negotiating rights until July 1.
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby Durbano on Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:36 pm

DesertPenguin wrote:You can't be punished for tampering with yourself though

Tell that to The Vatican
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby Seattle-Pens-fan on Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:30 am

Durbano wrote:
DesertPenguin wrote:You can't be punished for tampering with yourself though

Tell that to The Vatican


Thanks, I just spit water all over my screen. :face: :lol:
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby Vegasfan on Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:44 am

Thanks so much for the information guys! I knew I could count on you :)

And to DesertPenguin....it is a her question :) (is that allowed?! :) )
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby no name on Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:01 am

GMRS said teams and players can talk about contracts in general, basic money and term, but specifics detailed talks and the actual signing can't happen until the 1st.

Shero was smart with Staal talking contract befor the draft to figure out his intensions. Once knowing his intension he made a bold and quick move.
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby Gunnerfan on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:08 am

Durbano wrote:
DesertPenguin wrote:You can't be punished for tampering with yourself though

Tell that to The Vatican



Freaking Classic! :fist: :fist:
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby DelPen on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:40 am

It's a safe bet that Malkin is being talked to as well even though he can't sign an extension until July 1, 2013. since Crosby's deal will certainly impact Malkin. I'm sure Sid's agent is running the numbers past Malkin's agent to make sure that's what Geno wants too since they will probably get identical contracts more or less again.
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:08 am

owtahear wrote:For the last time.....

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That is clear
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby Malkamaniac on Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:11 am

haha
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Re: A question for all you knowledgable folks...

Postby meow on Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:12 am

I find that if I repeat myself, people take me more serious.
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