(Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby brwi on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:02 am

FallenHero96 wrote:
Corvidae wrote:
sil wrote:Ooof...we can't pay that much. $1,200,000 isn't enough for the other two roster spots. Even with Lovejoy ($525K) and Jeffrey ($575K)...that leaves us $100,000 below the cap. No one can get hurt! :scared:


Also a demonstration in why we're not getting both.


I think if the pens find out that both want to play here, then they sign them and they make it work.

And 7.5 is high for Suter, that would be over twice his current salary. On this team, I would think he would be down around 6.


Keep dreaming....he'll easily get 7mil or more on a long-term deal.
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby columbia on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:03 am

Random gossip:

Bill Watters ‏@RealBillWatters

Don't be surproised if both Brandon Prust and Shane Doan become Maple Leafs after July One.They have been targeted since mid April&fit plan.
Retweeted by Josh Rimer
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:06 am

Luckybreak wrote:
mikey287 wrote:No sweat. Re: Seto...naybe...but the Wild can't just give him up, they lack scoring for an offensive-minded team (that is as big of a problem as it sounds)...I'd honestly rather just overpay Guillaume Latendresse by $500K-$750K to secure him here. 1 year, $2.75M and make a career year for yourself and then if you feel the need to move on or if it didn't work, then buh-bye...at least we tried...

Ideally, I'd like to get out of this offseason without trading anymore if we could. Which I know is blasphemy on a message board. Sure, I'd like a couple pop shots into free agency...but I'd really like it if we held onto our assets and see if we can either hit a homerun in free agency, hit a ground-rule double in free agency (Lats, or similar) or hit a chopper off the mound and the try to get by on longshot free agents and filling spots from within...hopefully we can run it out and keep the inning alive...


Hey Mikey, not sure if you agree but to me ZP at $7mil+ or a trade for Ryan would be like slicing your head open and sticking a bandage on your leg. It would be the best bandage available but wouldn't fix anything.
Doan at 3.5 or Latendresse if healthy (Pittsburgh seemed to work wonders for Sully's health!) would be far more cost effective and allow more spending on D + bottom 6.
If we manage to sign Suter I heard Minny might look at Martin as a potential plan B - if so, what package might see Clutterbuck coming back? Is that a likely trade scenario in your opinion?

Doan 4.5mil, 1yr (perhaps Tangradi could learn a thing or two?)
Prust 1mil, 1yr (failing that re-sign Asham)
Suter 6.5mil, 6yr (trade Martin to MIN for Clutterbuck, details TBC...)
Allen 3.25mil, 2yr (Allen + Orpik contracts expire 2014 allowing Letang extension and D prospect promotion).
Niskanen 2mil, 2yr (Despres plays 50-60, Engelland 20-30)

FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Shane Doan ($4.500m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Cal Clutterbuck ($1.400m)
Brandon Prust ($1.000m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Eric Tangradi ($0.850m)
Craig Adams ($0.675m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($3.500m) / Ryan Suter ($6.500m)
Bryan Allen ($3.250m) / Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)
Matt Niskanen ($2.000m) / Simon Despres ($0.840m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)

SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,873,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,326,667

Sid gets a winger (not his BFF tho), bottom 6 get bigger, younger, and just plain nasty to play against, the D have a drool worthy top pairing, a monstrous shutdown pairing, and a very capable 3rd pairing with cap space left over!


Well it depends on what the organizatonal blueprint is. If they want to be the 1987 Washington Capitals and just try to go up and down...then sure, get Parise and Yandle and forget the D. I'm always in favor of defensive play, so I don't represent the majority. Would they do Clutterbuck for Martin? I don't know, they like him there and he's cheap...we might have to add one of those fringe NHLers that we have too, but I'm not sure of Martin's value...in this instance, it's exactly what someone would give for him, which sounds obvious, but it's more true now than ever...

At the above, I like Lats and Doan to some extent. Niskanen should fire his agent if he only ends up with $2 million. And if Prust was willing to take even $1.8 million he would have remained a Ranger, so a million isn't cutting it there...but other than that, it's not bad...
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby marek on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:08 am

Wideman getting 5.25 a year from Calgary pretty much takes Suter's salary into the stratosphere... Blank check.

The only chance the Penguins can afford him is dumping both Martin and Kennedy.
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Kraftster on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:09 am

Is Semin getting KHL offers? I presume he is. If so, what kind of number do people think its going to take to keep him in the NHL? I hope the Pens explore him as an option, or at least check out the price tag.
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:56 am

Kraftster wrote:Is Semin getting KHL offers? I presume he is. If so, what kind of number do people think its going to take to keep him in the NHL? I hope the Pens explore him as an option, or at least check out the price tag.


Red Wings will be a player. I think he will sign for close to the 6M he got this season.
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby penny lane on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:17 am

Carolina Hurricanes ‏@nhl_canes
#Canes goalie Brian Boucher expected to miss 4-6 months with a shoulder injury: http://carhur.com/dcq
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby darkstar57 on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:23 am

i think Semin would do good in Det, playing with Datsuyk and a no nonsense coach in babcock, i am a penguins fan first and foremost, but also a hockey fan and i hate seeing talent like that wasted. If he goes to DET they will slap some sense into him
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Nihar on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:39 am

mikey287 wrote:
Luckybreak wrote:
mikey287 wrote:No sweat. Re: Seto...naybe...but the Wild can't just give him up, they lack scoring for an offensive-minded team (that is as big of a problem as it sounds)...I'd honestly rather just overpay Guillaume Latendresse by $500K-$750K to secure him here. 1 year, $2.75M and make a career year for yourself and then if you feel the need to move on or if it didn't work, then buh-bye...at least we tried...

Ideally, I'd like to get out of this offseason without trading anymore if we could. Which I know is blasphemy on a message board. Sure, I'd like a couple pop shots into free agency...but I'd really like it if we held onto our assets and see if we can either hit a homerun in free agency, hit a ground-rule double in free agency (Lats, or similar) or hit a chopper off the mound and the try to get by on longshot free agents and filling spots from within...hopefully we can run it out and keep the inning alive...


Hey Mikey, not sure if you agree but to me ZP at $7mil+ or a trade for Ryan would be like slicing your head open and sticking a bandage on your leg. It would be the best bandage available but wouldn't fix anything.
Doan at 3.5 or Latendresse if healthy (Pittsburgh seemed to work wonders for Sully's health!) would be far more cost effective and allow more spending on D + bottom 6.
If we manage to sign Suter I heard Minny might look at Martin as a potential plan B - if so, what package might see Clutterbuck coming back? Is that a likely trade scenario in your opinion?

Doan 4.5mil, 1yr (perhaps Tangradi could learn a thing or two?)
Prust 1mil, 1yr (failing that re-sign Asham)
Suter 6.5mil, 6yr (trade Martin to MIN for Clutterbuck, details TBC...)
Allen 3.25mil, 2yr (Allen + Orpik contracts expire 2014 allowing Letang extension and D prospect promotion).
Niskanen 2mil, 2yr (Despres plays 50-60, Engelland 20-30)

FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Shane Doan ($4.500m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($1.500m)
Matt Cooke ($1.800m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Cal Clutterbuck ($1.400m)
Brandon Prust ($1.000m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Eric Tangradi ($0.850m)
Craig Adams ($0.675m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($3.500m) / Ryan Suter ($6.500m)
Bryan Allen ($3.250m) / Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)
Matt Niskanen ($2.000m) / Simon Despres ($0.840m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)

SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,873,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,326,667

Sid gets a winger (not his BFF tho), bottom 6 get bigger, younger, and just plain nasty to play against, the D have a drool worthy top pairing, a monstrous shutdown pairing, and a very capable 3rd pairing with cap space left over!


Well it depends on what the organizatonal blueprint is. If they want to be the 1987 Washington Capitals and just try to go up and down...then sure, get Parise and Yandle and forget the D. I'm always in favor of defensive play, so I don't represent the majority. Would they do Clutterbuck for Martin? I don't know, they like him there and he's cheap...we might have to add one of those fringe NHLers that we have too, but I'm not sure of Martin's value...in this instance, it's exactly what someone would give for him, which sounds obvious, but it's more true now than ever...

At the above, I like Lats and Doan to some extent. Niskanen should fire his agent if he only ends up with $2 million. And if Prust was willing to take even $1.8 million he would have remained a Ranger, so a million isn't cutting it there...but other than that, it's not bad...



One thing that you're overlooking here though (and that a lot of people are) is that Parise is also a stellar defensive player and backchecker. He's also a great penalty-killer. Really, he does everything well and that, more than the scoring per se, is what excites me about him. He's the hockey equivalent of baseball's 5-tool player. Smart, good leader, good skater, sees the ice well, backchecks, forechecks, nose for the net with the physical skills to match.... He'd be an absolutely unbelievable acquisition. He's one of the top ten overall forwards -- if not players, period -- in the entire league when you take all of this into account.

Suter would be great too, but I like others in this thread think we don't need a stud no. 1 defenseman as much as we need a 2-4 mil./yr., positionally sound, strong, net-clearing defenseman (or two!). If I'm GMRS I go (almost) all-in for Parise. Obviously you don't do something stupid like give him Crosby money, but if you can get a guy like that long-term for, say, a $7 or even $7.5 mil. cap hit, I think you do it.
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:42 am

I agree he's a top-10 forward. He's certainly well above average defensively, I'm not sure if I'd call him "stellar", a lot of his defense is a product of good work rate...but yeah, he's a very good backchecker...not as good as Hossa in that regard, but still very good and that shouldn't be forgotten, you are right...
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby ILikeTurtles on Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:09 pm

I'd love to see Parise in a Pens uniform but the question is will he sign here? If he wants to how does that work cap wise because Letang will be up for a new contract in a few years. The biggest question is if he signs here will Dupuis give him #9???
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:12 pm

ILikeTurtles wrote:I'd love to see Parise in a Pens uniform but the question is will he sign here? If he wants to how does that work cap wise because Letang will be up for a new contract in a few years. The biggest question is if he signs here will Dupuis give him #9???


Parise isn't the #1 priority.
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby ILikeTurtles on Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:35 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
ILikeTurtles wrote:I'd love to see Parise in a Pens uniform but the question is will he sign here? If he wants to how does that work cap wise because Letang will be up for a new contract in a few years. The biggest question is if he signs here will Dupuis give him #9???


Parise isn't the #1 priority.

I'm assuming you mean that Suter is, while I agree that Shero needs to solidify the defense in signing him and possibly another one of the middle pairing UFAs, Suter has been on record saying he wants to stay in the Western Conference.
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Pavel Bure on Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:36 pm

Morrow and Kennedy for Ott
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby sil on Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:45 pm

Is there a belief around here that Suter is a stay-at-home shut down defender...or that he doesn't have his own share of defensive gaffs? This isn't Nik Lidstrom we're talking about...it's Ryan Suter. Paying him over $7M would be worse than paying Maritn $5M.
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Corvidae on Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:59 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:Morrow and Kennedy for Ott


No way. Morrow is, in my opinion, the best prospect in their D pool.
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Pavel Bure on Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:14 pm

Corvidae wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:Morrow and Kennedy for Ott


No way. Morrow is, in my opinion, the best prospect in their D pool.

That's the key word, "prospect" If a prospect who has proven nothing at the pro level can be moved in a deal like that then do it. It's obvious the defensive prospect pool will be well stocked at long as Shero is here.
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Pavel Bure on Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:16 pm

sil wrote:Is there a belief around here that Suter is a stay-at-home shut down defender...or that he doesn't have his own share of defensive gaffs? This isn't Nik Lidstrom we're talking about...it's Ryan Suter. Paying him over $7M would be worse than paying Maritn $5M.

Yeah I'm not liking paying Suter 7M either. Chara, Kieth, Green, Weber are really the only guys I'd pay in the 7M range for.
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby praxitas on Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:16 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:
Corvidae wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:Morrow and Kennedy for Ott


No way. Morrow is, in my opinion, the best prospect in their D pool.

That's the key word, "prospect" If a prospect who has proven nothing at the pro level can be moved in a deal like that then do it. It's obvious the defensive prospect pool will be well stocked at long as Shero is here.


He's proven his first year at camp he can play pretty darn good in preseason games. That is good enough for me not to move him. Especially for a cheap rat that is a couple hits away from being in the same boat as Cooke was. I don't like the thought of moving Despres or Morrow unless it is extremely good value in return.
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Pavel Bure on Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:18 pm

Yep preseason sure does show what a guy can/will be. You have to give to get and Dallas is looking for prospects/picks/young players. Ott while playing with an edge isn't in the territory Matt Cooke was at the time of his suspension
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:22 pm

I don't want the Pens to get Ott. May as well go after Sean Avery or the French military.
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby praxitas on Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:31 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:Yep preseason sure does show what a guy can/will be. You have to give to get and Dallas is looking for prospects/picks/young players. Ott while playing with an edge isn't in the territory Matt Cooke was at the time of his suspension


No it does not give you a definitive snapshot of what a player will be like. But, it gives you a glimpse of what they can be. He played higher than many expected and there is nothing to say he hasn't progressed further from last year. I wouldn't want to waste that on an agitating 3rd liner. I feel Morrow would be someone involved in a major deal for someone like Bobby Ryan (used for example purposes only and not saying it would ONLY take Morrow)
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:51 pm

Ribeiro got a future 3rd liner and a 2nd round pick...I'm not giving up a third liner and the best prospect in the system to get another third liner or at best 2nd/3rd line tweener...bad asset management.
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby TKovacs2 on Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:55 pm

mikey287 wrote:Ribeiro got a future 3rd liner and a 2nd round pick...I'm not giving up a third liner and the best prospect in the system to get another third liner or at best 2nd/3rd line tweener...bad asset management.


Which, if anything, Shero has shown himself to be very shrewd at IMO. All the more reason you'd never see the jewel of our minor league system traded for a third line grinder.
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Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby JoseCuervo on Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:55 pm

Why do some people want ott on this team? He isn't a terrible player, but he peaked about two years ago. He really hasn't been that effective since then. Sure he could play third line, but he is making way too much money for that role. There is no reason to trade one of your top prospects for a third liner. Just sign prust instead.
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