(Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Luckybreak on Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:49 am

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
mikey287 wrote:I can't answer that as I don't coach the team (fortunately or unfortunately)...also, I'm weary of my own ability to coach a power play...I tend to have power plays that are against the norm with wrinkles like the "end-line rover" that can be befuddling to some when explained on paper/whiteboard...I fear I overcoach some units and under-coach at other times...

So, I'm not sure if I'm the best power play strategist for a talented team such as this one...sometimes offensive players just need to be alloted a green light to create within a given set of guidelines. We have a fair mix of playmaking and players that are able to shoot, which is promising. Having everything crammed into one unit causes complications though...if they continue with a stacked one-unit system, they might be expected to play 90 seconds of a power play...how that affects even strength situations is yet to be determined, if it does happen...


I go back and forth with the PP issues of this team. Sometimes I feel it's the "too many cooks in the kitchen" scenario...it can make other players, i.e. Letang, gun-shy and feel they need to always get the puck to Sid or Gino instead of shooting when having the chance. If that's the case, it's more of the coach addressing the players that they need to take their chances when they're given.

Other times I feel some players are given positions on the PP because of who they are rather than using the player more suited for that area. My biggest gripe with the PP is when Bylsma gives Sid precedent over Malkin on the half-wall and places Malkin at the point. Malkin is clearly uncomfortable at the point and doesn't play strong there. The PP is much more potent when Malkin is on the half-wall over Sid, but...it's Sid's team, so Bylsma does what he does. It really baffles me. I think Sid needs to be down low; his strengths close around the net and along the boards behind the goalie are incredible and I think it does Sid a disservice to not use him there.


@Hugo: totally agree with Sid and Geno being misused positionally just for the sake of having them both out there. Letang needs to be a threat from the point, not what he is doing now.

@Mikey: With Staal gone, who is going to be the focal point of the 2nd PP unit (if there is one!)? Are Letang-Despres and Nisky-Martin likely 1/2 PP pairings?

IMO Sid n Geno need to be split, get Tangradi some time in front of the net (he must be better in that role than Kunitz) and get a PP strategy that does not involve Sid, Geno and Letang playing pass the hot potato.
Luckybreak
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 808
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:57 am
Location: Ash UK

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Pavel Bure on Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:52 am

Staal wasn't the focus of any PP while he was here. He just wasn't very good on it.
Pavel Bure
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,536
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:15 pm
Location: http://freebitco.in/?r=770437 BITCOINS get them

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Luckybreak on Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:09 am

Pavel Bure wrote:Staal wasn't the focus of any PP while he was here. He just wasn't very good on it.


I'm not saying he was good at it but he provided more to the 2nd unit than any of the current options. In some ways it is good as it may encourage a more balanced 2 unit system, ie
#1: Tangradi net, Neal high slot, Malkin half boards
Letang - Despres
#2: Kunitz net, TK high slot, Crosby half boards
Nisky - Martin
Luckybreak
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 808
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:57 am
Location: Ash UK

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Mongoose87 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:49 am

In what world does Tangradi beat Kunitz out for PP time?
Mongoose87
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,908
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:04 pm
Location: The breakfast table of TRIUMPH!

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby JoseCuervo on Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:54 am

Mongoose87 wrote:In what world does Tangradi beat Kunitz out for PP time?


Flawed Logic World:
Luckybreak wrote:get Tangradi some time in front of the net (he must be better in that role than Kunitz)
JoseCuervo
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,809
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:20 pm
Location: Dallas

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby mikey287 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:33 am

This will sound crazy to some (myself included), but the two options that came to my head were...

1. Stack a unit, play it for 80 to 100 seconds and whatever happens happens...it's the best collection of talent on the ice at any one time in the league...

or

2. Give Malkin the 2nd power play unit and let him try his best. Let him take control with the extra space given to him, give him a decent babysitter that's ready to get back and correct his sometimes audacious passes and ideas and just let him try with the second unit...stick Tangradi at the front, give him Jeffrey, give him Sutter, whatever...

I don't know what that will look like, may fail mieserably, but those are my two ideas (sans whiteboard drawings)...
Last edited by mikey287 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,325
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Luckybreak on Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:33 am

JoseCuervo wrote:
Mongoose87 wrote:In what world does Tangradi beat Kunitz out for PP time?


Flawed Logic World:
Luckybreak wrote:get Tangradi some time in front of the net (he must be better in that role than Kunitz)


Kunitz is undeniably a better player than Tangradi but is not ideally suited to a net-front role. Put Kunitz in place of TK on #2.
Having a big body acting as a screen is better (I know from a goalie's perspective). Tangradi has size and hands if not skating, but wouldn't be moving very far. Please explain the flawed logic?
Luckybreak
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 808
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:57 am
Location: Ash UK

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby JoseCuervo on Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:48 am

Let's just put macintyre in front. He's big; the goalie won't see a shot coming.

Spoiler:
he must be better in that role than Kunitz
JoseCuervo
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,809
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:20 pm
Location: Dallas

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby shmenguin on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:05 pm

the kryptonite to the 2 unit approach over the last couple years has been the point men. you can't have a successful unit if your QB is paul martin - no matter who else you're putting out there. look no further than the difference in our PP with and without letang last year (though i know he's not strictly a "QB", but lets not get bogged down in semantics.
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,538
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Luckybreak on Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:54 pm

JoseCuervo wrote:Let's just put macintyre in front. He's big; the goalie won't see a shot coming.

Spoiler:
he must be better in that role than Kunitz


Yeah thanks Jose, that's exactly what I was saying :roll:
Luckybreak
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 808
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:57 am
Location: Ash UK

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Luckybreak on Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:00 pm

shmenguin wrote:the kryptonite to the 2 unit approach over the last couple years has been the point men. you can't have a successful unit if your QB is paul martin - no matter who else you're putting out there. look no further than the difference in our PP with and without letang last year (though i know he's not strictly a "QB", but lets not get bogged down in semantics.


Fingers crossed Martin is restricted in his PP 'contributions', Tanger Nisky Despres maybe Morrow all get the nod before him in ideal world.
Luckybreak
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 808
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:57 am
Location: Ash UK

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Luckybreak on Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:05 pm

JoseCuervo wrote:Let's just put macintyre in front. He's big; the goalie won't see a shot coming.

Spoiler:
he must be better in that role than Kunitz


Futher to my point, how many goals were waved because Kunitz either interferred with the goalie or got pushed into the goalie? He can't play that spot effectively, so either give him a diff role on the PP or find a player who fits the 'net-front' description, something I believe Tangradi could.
Luckybreak
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 808
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:57 am
Location: Ash UK

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Noise on Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:28 pm

I think the most important thing about running a screen on the goalie is both willingness to do it & take all the pain you receive & the strength to not get boxed out. Being a big tall strong checker doesn't inherently make you any better at that.
Noise
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,439
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:35 am

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Sarcastic on Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:52 pm

To me, the main problem with the PP is lack of a great quarterback who would control the whole thing. I don't see Sid or Malkin in that role and I don't think Letang is experienced enough. We miss someone like Gonchar. Maybe we should have signed him instead of Martin. I don't know anymore.
Sarcastic
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,283
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:49 pm

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby mikey287 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:53 pm

If Letang, a top-10 d-man in the league, can't handle it then we have big problems...
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,325
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Sarcastic on Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:58 pm

mikey287 wrote:If Letang, a top-10 d-man in the league, can't handle it then we have big problems...


Possibly, one of the young studs coming in is able to do that. I'm really excited. I like Letang on the PP, but he's more of a physical performer... we need someone with brains. Gonchar knew how to distribute the puck and when to shoot.
Sarcastic
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,283
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:49 pm

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby MRandall25 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:05 pm

We'd also need someone who could hit the net every now and then :pop:
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,911
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Luckybreak on Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:13 pm

Noise wrote:I think the most important thing about running a screen on the goalie is both willingness to do it & take all the pain you receive & the strength to not get boxed out. Being a big tall strong checker doesn't inherently make you any better at that.


Agreed, it takes far more than size to be effective, but Tangradi has shown he can win strength battles along the boards, and I believe he takes the PP net front position in WBS on occasion and has decent hands. IMO Kunitz, whilst willing, doesn't have the size to hold the position against bigger D so why not see if Tangradi can do a better job?

If Tangradi can utilize his size and take the beating Neal and Malkin's sniping ability is all the more dangerous. Letang should be a good enough QB, he has the tools and I'm sure he will be paid like a top 10 D upon his extension - he just needs to put it all together.
Luckybreak
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 808
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:57 am
Location: Ash UK

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby mikey287 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:56 pm

Yeah, we can't have a lot of things "off limits" here...we (well, the coaches) have to go into this with an open mind...Tangradi and others have be involved in different scenarios and situations and see what pieces fit...we have to get a little bit creative...on both sides of the red line...
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,325
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:44 pm

Sarcastic wrote:To me, the main problem with the PP is lack of a great quarterback who would control the whole thing. I don't see Sid or Malkin in that role and I don't think Letang is experienced enough. We miss someone like Gonchar. Maybe we should have signed him instead of Martin. I don't know anymore.


I think part of the issue with Letang, and I obviously don't know this because I'm not in the locker room, but just from observing it seems like Letang hasn't been given the reigns to take over as a PP QB. It really seems like the mission of the PP is to get the puck to either Sid or Gino. I don't think either of them should be running the PP, it should be whomever is at the point.
Hugo Stiglitz
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,704
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:36 am

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:52 pm

mikey287 wrote:This will sound crazy to some (myself included), but the two options that came to my head were...

1. Stack a unit, play it for 80 to 100 seconds and whatever happens happens...it's the best collection of talent on the ice at any one time in the league...

or

2. Give Malkin the 2nd power play unit and let him try his best. Let him take control with the extra space given to him, give him a decent babysitter that's ready to get back and correct his sometimes audacious passes and ideas and just let him try with the second unit...stick Tangradi at the front, give him Jeffrey, give him Sutter, whatever...

I don't know what that will look like, may fail mieserably, but those are my two ideas (sans whiteboard drawings)...


I'm definitely for moving Malkin to the 2nd unit. You can't take away someone that potent from the first unit and this isn't a Sid vs. Gino thing, because I don't think you move Sid either.

EDIT: I meant I'm definitely NOT for moving Malkin to the 2nd PP unit.

I think there is a philosophical issue more than anything for how Bylsma sets things up. When I used the "too many cooks in the kitchen" theory is because there could be no set leader on the PP. As I just said in my previous reply, I think the person on the point needs to be the QB and run the PP. I don't think Sid or Gino should be that guy. I also think Bylsma misuses them. There's absolutely no logical reason that our PP that rich in talent should struggle as much as they do.

Malkin is proven to much better on the half-wall of the PP and should stay there. Sid is better at not only handling the puck around the net, but he crashes the net which is very beneficial on the PP. You want rebounds and mayhem right around the net. So again, I really think it comes down to Bylsma really laying down a hard-set role assignment on the PP...it just seems so "go with the flow" with no set structure.
Last edited by Hugo Stiglitz on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hugo Stiglitz
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,704
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:36 am

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby mikey287 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:36 pm

Roles/styles.

Not all power plays are run through the point. Safest place to distribute from, traditional QB spot - being able to observe the whole play a plus. Many power plays also run from the half wall, depends on personnel.
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,325
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby HockeyDaddy on Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:08 pm

I'm not expecting Morrow to make the team out of camp, however, if he did, I think that adding him to the second PP unit would be a good option. I don't have first hand knowledge, but all reports indicate that he has a powerful shot that could be lethal on the PP. Put Letang on the first unit with Depres/Nisky and Morrow and Martin on the second with Martin playing a more protective role.
HockeyDaddy
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,529
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:17 pm
Location: In Yo Face

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby mikey287 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:14 pm

Disgusting shot.
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,325
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: (Official) Free Agent and Offseason Discussion Thread

Postby Fire0nice228 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:39 pm

Josh Yohe ‏@JoshYohe_Trib

Shero on Doan: "We have interest. But he has made it clear he wants to stay in Phoenix."
Fire0nice228
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,701
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: refs fault

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

e-mail