Penguins Re-Sign Defenseman Matt Niskanen: 2 yr, $4.6m

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: Penguins Re-Sign Defenseman Matt Niskanen: 2 yr, $4.6m

Postby mikey287 on Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:47 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:Despite your feelings on Engelland, we can't afford to lose him unless Shero is in fact going out and buying someone like Allen. Outside of Orpik, we don't have any physical stay-at-home dmen. We're going to get lit up with a core of all offensive dmen.


That's fine, I don't disagree even. Engelland has the most value to the organization out of that group probably. But eventually, he'll probably need to be phased out of the lineup (even further) to achieve optimal success. If Engelland was better at preventing goals, he'd be welcomed with open arms...but I'm not sure he prevents any more goals than these offensive d-men that you're talking about...


Honestly, I felt a lot safer with him on the ice than Martin or Michalek last year. And I'm not talking out of my dislike for the other two. I mean that.


Right, well, Engelland played against 3rd and 4th lines most of the year...so I would have too. But we lost a lot of ground with Engelland on the ice, territorially, even against weak competition. The coaching staff would agree with me in their distrust of him. Even look at the elementary things like being scratched for two consecutive playoffs and then being stapled to the bench for a third...even over the course of the year, no d-man had an easier job on this team and only Niskanen started his shift in the offensive zone more than Engelland (Engo 55.5% of the time) and no defenseman had a worse time of keeping it out of our zone than Engelland (he only finished those shifts in the offensive zone 48% of the time)...goals didn't go in a lot when Engelland or Niskanen were out there, but Engelland is also an offense killer and probably held Niskanen back. The lack of goals against on Engelland is attributable to his playing sheltered minutes against the worst the other team has to offer. He's not an integral part of this club's success at this point and given his skillset, he doesn't project to be.

If his physicality and willingness to fight are important to club (which I believe they are, like the consensus) then my suggestion of moving him to forward would be best for both parties. Even at 30 years old, the coaches don't trust him in first round playoff games...that won't change at 31...
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,918
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Penguins Re-Sign Defenseman Matt Niskanen: 2 yr, $4.6m

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:05 pm

We really don't need to get into another Engellend debate, but however anyone feels about him, we can't afford to lose him. Unless Shero goes out and gets Allen or Salvador, or even trades Martin for a physical dman, Engellend will not be phased out.

Truthfully, there's no reason for him to ever get phased out unless Bortuzzo beats him out for a spot.
Hugo Stiglitz
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,260
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:36 am

Re: Penguins Re-Sign Defenseman Matt Niskanen: 2 yr, $4.6m

Postby pugilist13 on Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:06 pm

Nisky is a good sign at the right price and years. Dont know if i trust anything longer. The jury is still out on him. This could come back to bite in a couple years if he continues to progress.
pugilist13
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,258
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:51 pm
Location: your back yard

Re: Penguins Re-Sign Defenseman Matt Niskanen: 2 yr, $4.6m

Postby JoseCuervo on Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:13 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:Either Martin is on his way out, or the Pens are going to move one of the waiver-eligible dmen in a package for a better dman.

That being said, it's a good signing. Niskanen is kinda becoming the Dupuis of our D-core.


re-signing nisky has no effect on retaining martin. Only FA signings will effect retaining him.
JoseCuervo
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,809
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:20 pm
Location: Dallas

Re: Penguins Re-Sign Defenseman Matt Niskanen: 2 yr, $4.6m

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:18 pm

JoseCuervo wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:Either Martin is on his way out, or the Pens are going to move one of the waiver-eligible dmen in a package for a better dman.

That being said, it's a good signing. Niskanen is kinda becoming the Dupuis of our D-core.


re-signing nisky has no effect on retaining martin. Only FA signings will effect retaining him.


IMO, re-signing Niskanen indirectly effects Martin. It's not that Niskanen replaces Martin, but the dmen prospects that will have to pass through waivers, at least from my perspective, are not ones Shero would want to risk for the sake of Niskanen. It could mean Lovejoy is moved a little faster, but I also believe Martin will not start this season as a Pittsburgh Penguin.
Hugo Stiglitz
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,260
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:36 am

Re: Penguins Re-Sign Defenseman Matt Niskanen: 2 yr, $4.6m

Postby JoseCuervo on Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:46 am

The waiver eligible d-men are all bottom pairing players, and it is going to be impossible to retain all of them. Nisky, engo, lovejoy, strait, bortuzzo, sneep, and despres will all be fighting for the bottom two spots. Nisky just solidified number 5, so there are 6 players fighting for the last spot. 1. Simply moving martin isn't going to prevent any of these players from going through waivers (despres not eligible of course). 2. You don't move a top 4 d man in order to keep a bottom pairing prospect.

The only reason martin would move is if a better dman is signed in fa. You're then going to have the same problem. This move has no effect on martin's status - not even indirectly. Players are going to be passing through waivers this year.
JoseCuervo
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 9,809
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:20 pm
Location: Dallas

Re: Penguins Re-Sign Defenseman Matt Niskanen: 2 yr, $4.6m

Postby brwi on Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:03 am

mikey287 wrote:I also find it odd, that no one was quite sure of Justin Faulk when he was rumored to be in the Staal deal...but yet everyone seems so sure of Bryan Allen, his teammate...how do you know one player's game and not the other's...? That's not to say Allen wouldn't be a fit (though he is quite slow) but I just found it a touch odd...collectively, we seem pretty sure of Allen...Faulk (a far superior player with enormous upside) was met with apathy at best it seemed...


People on LGP highly overrate Bryan Allen because of his size and past pedigree and most likely have not seen him play very much. If they had, they'd realize why Carolina had no interest in trying to re-sign him before UFA.
brwi
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,132
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:36 am

Re: Penguins Re-Sign Defenseman Matt Niskanen: 2 yr, $4.6m

Postby bhaw on Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:16 am

brwi wrote:
mikey287 wrote:I also find it odd, that no one was quite sure of Justin Faulk when he was rumored to be in the Staal deal...but yet everyone seems so sure of Bryan Allen, his teammate...how do you know one player's game and not the other's...? That's not to say Allen wouldn't be a fit (though he is quite slow) but I just found it a touch odd...collectively, we seem pretty sure of Allen...Faulk (a far superior player with enormous upside) was met with apathy at best it seemed...


People on LGP highly overrate Bryan Allen because of his size and past pedigree and most likely have not seen him play very much. If they had, they'd realize why Carolina had no interest in trying to re-sign him before UFA.


Names get thrown out there, a few people agree, then suddenly everyone knows about the guy. I have not heard a description about Allen other than around his size, which you can find on NHL.com. No one has said anything about his playing style.

And no offense to mikey, but the same thing happened with Lats. No one was talking about him, but as soon as he is brought up, everyone makes general comments about how he's a great fit for the system, etc. Tons of concern over Sid's health but Latendress had just as bad, if not a worse, concussion history the last couple years. Given he's not a generational talent like Sid, you'd figure more people would be inclined to pass if they knew that about them.

This board is just silly. If you throw out a name and mention "big" or "physical" or something like that, everyone is all over it. I don't know anything about Allen to make an opinion, and I don't touch Lats with a 20 foot pole unless it's a few weeks from now for minimal money.
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 27,003
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Re: Penguins Re-Sign Defenseman Matt Niskanen: 2 yr, $4.6m

Postby bhaw on Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:17 am

JoseCuervo wrote:The waiver eligible d-men are all bottom pairing players, and it is going to be impossible to retain all of them. Nisky, engo, lovejoy, strait, bortuzzo, sneep, and despres will all be fighting for the bottom two spots. Nisky just solidified number 5, so there are 6 players fighting for the last spot. 1. Simply moving martin isn't going to prevent any of these players from going through waivers (despres not eligible of course). 2. You don't move a top 4 d man in order to keep a bottom pairing prospect.

The only reason martin would move is if a better dman is signed in fa. You're then going to have the same problem. This move has no effect on martin's status - not even indirectly. Players are going to be passing through waivers this year.


This is all 100% correct IMO. We aren't dumping Martin so Lovejoy or Strait can stay in the NHL. We will have a half dozen or so guys competing for 1 spot on the blue line, which is a good thing.
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 27,003
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Re: Penguins Re-Sign Defenseman Matt Niskanen: 2 yr, $4.6m

Postby shmenguin on Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:18 am

i'm pretty sure jeff finger was coveted by some people here before TOR signed him. people want new toys to play with - even if they've never even seen the commercials for them.
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,840
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: Penguins Re-Sign Defenseman Matt Niskanen: 2 yr, $4.6m

Postby Mongoose87 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:20 am

shmenguin wrote:i'm pretty sure jeff finger was coveted by some people here before TOR signed him. people want new toys to play with - even if they've never even seen the commercials for them.

The problem with Finger isn't him, it's his salary.
Mongoose87
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,908
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:04 pm
Location: The breakfast table of TRIUMPH!

Re: Penguins Re-Sign Defenseman Matt Niskanen: 2 yr, $4.6m

Postby pugilist13 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:49 am

Bryan Allen is a big, fairly slow physical D man. Some who are wishing for him may be disappointed. Plays a simple game. Nothing flashy, not much, if any offense. Willing combatant who sticks up for his teammates. Not very skilled in the fisticuffs dept. I would like to see him here IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT.
pugilist13
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,258
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:51 pm
Location: your back yard

Re: Penguins Re-Sign Defenseman Matt Niskanen: 2 yr, $4.6m

Postby brwi on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:12 pm

pugilist13 wrote:Bryan Allen is a big, fairly slow physical D man. Some who are wishing for him may be disappointed. Plays a simple game. Nothing flashy, not much, if any offense. Willing combatant who sticks up for his teammates. Not very skilled in the fisticuffs dept. I would like to see him here IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT.


Allen's big problem IMO is that he gets lost a LOT in his own end and forgets who his responsibility is, especially when a team is cycling behind the net. In Carolina, I thought he was pretty well below average on a team that doesn't have the most stellar blueline to begin with. He brings the size and some mean, but he's a 6th/7th dman at best to me and can be a real liability out there against players with some quickness.

He's sort of like a Hal Gill that is a little shorter and has less hockey IQ also.
brwi
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,132
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:36 am

Re: Penguins Re-Sign Defenseman Matt Niskanen: 2 yr, $4.6m

Postby pugilist13 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:26 pm

brwi wrote:
pugilist13 wrote:Bryan Allen is a big, fairly slow physical D man. Some who are wishing for him may be disappointed. Plays a simple game. Nothing flashy, not much, if any offense. Willing combatant who sticks up for his teammates. Not very skilled in the fisticuffs dept. I would like to see him here IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT.


Allen's big problem IMO is that he gets lost a LOT in his own end and forgets who his responsibility is, especially when a team is cycling behind the net. In Carolina, I thought he was pretty well below average on a team that doesn't have the most stellar blueline to begin with. He brings the size and some mean, but he's a 6th/7th dman at best to me and can be a real liability out there against players with some quickness.

He's sort of like a Hal Gill that is a little shorter and has less hockey IQ also.

Agree. I also find it amusing that people who bash Engelland are big endorsers of Allen. Pretty much bring the same things to the table. Allen>Engo but not by much imo.
pugilist13
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,258
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:51 pm
Location: your back yard

Previous

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


cron
e-mail