Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby Godric on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:53 am

FreeCandy44 wrote:
newarenanow wrote:One reason I'm excited for this to end, I"m sick of seeing FLyers 5, Pens 1 on the front of the LGP homepage.

God it feels like that game happened years ago.


Funny. It feels like it happened a couple days ago... It still stings thinking about how bad they sucked...

Hell it still stings thinking about how bad they sucked against Montreal or that debacle the last 2 games of the Tampa series
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Re: Lockout

Postby Tim Thomasen on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:59 am

Godric wrote:
FreeCandy44 wrote:
newarenanow wrote:One reason I'm excited for this to end, I"m sick of seeing FLyers 5, Pens 1 on the front of the LGP homepage.

God it feels like that game happened years ago.


Funny. It feels like it happened a couple days ago... It still stings thinking about how bad they sucked...

Hell it still stings thinking about how bad they sucked against Montreal or that debacle the last 2 games of the Tampa series


You shouldn't dwell on playoff series that happened years ago. It sucks we lost, but we can't win or get to the cup every year. As for the Tampa series, with all the injuries we had that year we had no business even being in the playoffs. With Crosby and Malkin gone for the year and a slew of injuries to our defense and secondary players, it was amazing we overcame the diversities this club had and made it to the postseason. To me that's a victory in itself.

To me, i'm over all those playoff losses and ready to focus on the season......if there is one of course.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:42 am

Bioshock wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Bioshock wrote:John Buccigross ‏@Buccigross

NHL player told me NHL team front office person told him, 48 game schedule beginning in Jan. is already outlined #rockoutwithyourNHLockout

N'at


Interesting but non issue. I would guess the league has or has had about 5 different schedules ready to go at various times since September 15th.
I wouldnt think they can put a schedule together for all teams quickly, plus this is providing them with a 48 game schedule now and would allow them
the dates to schedule more concerts in Feb, March and April without worry.


Pretty much my feelings as well. Just passing along something of note from a noteworthy columnist.

N'at


I would think the NHL would leak this info. out to give the players something to work towards to when they start talking again. Not to put pressure on the players but hoping they would cave just to get somethng done, to get paid and get playing.

I heard its rather a lenghty and difficult process making a schedule.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:02 am

Lol @ tsn's nhl page
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Re: Lockout

Postby penny lane on Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:03 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Lol @ tsn's nhl page


:lol: & of all teams~ the lions.

I haven't visited tsn, nhl.com, pp.com at all since the july.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:08 am

?
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Re: Lockout

Postby penny lane on Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:15 am

Gaucho wrote:?


webmaster had the links for nhl switched to the nfl news:

Image

this was the photo shown :P
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:21 am

Oooh, I was wondering what's funny about the Coyotes new deal.
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Re: Lockout

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:34 am



Best part of it is finally a player saying "they are trying to protect themselves from themselves". Finally it is getting through someone's heads. The owner's aren't trying to 'destroy' the NHLPA, they are trying to create rules which their own GMs won't use to annihilate them.

Also loved his quote about how the proposed system will kill the middle class. That is an intelligent and thought provoking statement. One that I think merits some in-depth analysis from the news rags looking for something to write about.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:21 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:


Best part of it is finally a player saying "they are trying to protect themselves from themselves". Finally it is getting through someone's heads. The owner's aren't trying to 'destroy' the NHLPA, they are trying to create rules which their own GMs won't use to annihilate them.

Also loved his quote about how the proposed system will kill the middle class. That is an intelligent and thought provoking statement. One that I think merits some in-depth analysis from the news rags looking for something to write about.


I completely disagree with the common theme that owners are trying to protect themselves from the themselves. Players will use any loophole possible to drive up their demands. What are teams supposed to do: have money and not spend it on the demands of the best free agents available? Winning and potential drives up sales and increases revenue for teams. As much as we make fun of Philly sans a Stanley Cup it's not like they haven't had success in the past 4 or 5 years and some playoffs series wins or runs, thus increasing their revenue.

First, if the owners don't abide by the rules if the CBA, its collusion. Second, all in all it does not matter anyways because the players get a certain percentage of revenues. Therefore if the star players are jacking up their rates with loopholes. It drives down the portion of the players cut available, forcing teams to limit money available for middle of the road players and pushing roster spots to entry level contracts thus killing the middle class of players and forcing the middle class of teams to lose still lose their top stars.

If no team did these loopholes the cash to players would still be the same overall amount, just better distributed.

All the owners are trying to do is create a competitive balance for the long term health of the league. Like I said before, Bettman is getting killed for giving in on contract stipulations in 2005 even though they made great strides and the league couldn't cut out everything. It just needs tweaked now. I mean, the NFL doesn't even guarantee contracts and these NHL clowns are crying foul about some contract stipulations, give me a break.

Although I think 5 years is pushing it the loopholes need to cut out in my opinion or its pointless.
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Re: Lockout

Postby interstorm on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:29 pm

I like reading about the tension after the Wild signed Parise and Suter. Claim you "lost" $6 million, pull a stunt like that and then walk into the room like Dangerfield in the Caddyshack clubhouse wondering why everyone is looking at you.

The players are being asked to save the onwers and GM's from themselved. They are operating like the cap is their budget, not their own personal finances. The most outrageous part is asking for the rollback (instead of finding some way to grandfather or otherwise run off existing contracts). That is like someone saying, "hey buddy...I really need some help. I'm behind on my mortgage because I bought too big a house. Can you give me some dough? Oh- also...I don't have room for my 25 year old deadbeat stepson so he's moving in to your place now. Don't worry, he doesn't eat too much. Thanks, man! I owe ya one".
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:53 pm

interstorm wrote:I like reading about the tension after the Wild signed Parise and Suter. Claim you "lost" $6 million, pull a stunt like that and then walk into the room like Dangerfield in the Caddyshack clubhouse wondering why everyone is looking at you.

The players are being asked to save the onwers and GM's from themselved. They are operating like the cap is their budget, not their own personal finances. The most outrageous part is asking for the rollback (instead of finding some way to grandfather or otherwise run off existing contracts). That is like someone saying, "hey buddy...I really need some help. I'm behind on my mortgage because I bought too big a house. Can you give me some dough? Oh- also...I don't have room for my 25 year old deadbeat stepson so he's moving in to your place now. Don't worry, he doesn't eat too much. Thanks, man! I owe ya one".


That's not true at all. They can't not do rollbacks because it screws players whose deals are coming up, and would completely screw a team over like the pens with too high of percentages. What is the point of a new CBA if they have to cut deals to keep contracts that were written under completely different economic terms?

This isn't some overriding scheme, and that point is clear since teams with better economics in other leagues are cut better deals, and there is a reason for that.

The wild signed those deals to try to increase attendance and drive up playoff revenue (similar to the flyers), that's how it works in sports, better teams have a chance to make more money. They felt signing those deals would increase revenue.

And a BIG ps here, Sutter and Parise caused this issue in their own by forcing teams to write in bonuses so they would get them and protect themselves from a lockout. If it wasn't the Wild it would have been some other team, and nobody signed them to deals it would have been collusion.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:01 pm



I can't be the only one to find it strange that two NHL tough guys - Parros & Westgarth - are both psychology graduates from Princeton. Westgarth started the year after Parros graduated.

As a fringe player, Westgarth added that he realizes some of what players are fighting for will never affect him directly, but he also argued that the trickle-down effect of eliminating creative contracts for stars would mean less cap space for the remaining players.

He also believes those contract rights are worth fighting for after other players lost a season in 2004-05 to get them.

“I will stand up for what I think is right for all the guys on my team,” he said. “The reason those contracts exist is because, in a cap system, that’s how you make room for paying other players. If we gave up the rights that the league wants, I believe it would annihilate the middle class of the NHL.”


Very good point about the contract rights.

I never really considered the cap implication of those "back diving" contracts other than being a circumvention tool, but he raises a valid point.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:11 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:The wild signed those deals to try to increase attendance and drive up playoff revenue (similar to the flyers), that's how it works in sports, better teams have a chance to make more money. They felt signing those deals would increase revenue.

And a BIG ps here, Sutter and Parise caused this issue in their own by forcing teams to write in bonuses so they would get them and protect themselves from a lockout. If it wasn't the Wild it would have been some other team, and nobody signed them to deals it would have been collusion.


The point isn't so much why the Wild signed them - they are big name players who will draw in fans and boost revenue. The point is that Leipold was complaining about those front-loaded contracts before signing Suter & Parise, then signs them to front-loaded contracts and tries to make like nothing happened.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:15 pm

Forbes has released updated (2012) NHL team values - http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian ... 1-billion/
  1. Toronto Maple Leafs: $1,000-million ($1-billion)
  2. New York Rangers: $750-million
  3. Montreal Canadiens: $575-million
  4. Chicago Blackhawks: $350-million
  5. Boston Bruins: $348-million
  6. Detroit Red Wings: $346-million
  7. Vancouver Canucks: $342-million
  8. Philadelphia Flyers: $336-million
  9. Pittsburgh Penguins: $288-million
  10. Los Angeles Kings: $276-million
  11. Washington Capitals: $250-million
  12. Calgary Flames: $245-million
  13. Dallas Stars: $240-million
  14. Edmonton Oilers: $225-million
  15. San Jose Sharks: $223-million
  16. Ottawa Senators: $220-million
  17. Minnesota Wild: $218-million
  18. Colorado Avalanche: $210-million
  19. New Jersey Devils: $205-million
  20. Winnipeg Jets: $200-million
  21. Anaheim Ducks: $192-million
  22. Buffalo Sabres: $175-million
  23. Tampa Bay Lightning: $174-million
  24. Florida Panthers: $170-million
  25. Nashville Predators: $167-million
  26. Carolina Hurricanes: $162-million
  27. New York Islanders: $155-million
  28. Columbus Blue Jackets: $145-million
  29. Phoenix Coyotes: $134-million
  30. St Louis Blues: $130-million
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:28 pm

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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:36 pm

Jacobs turned out to be a giant loser coming out of the last lockout, and now his Buffalo-sized ego is looking for a dramatic, one-sided win against the players coming out of this season’s work stoppage. That one-way, ends-justify-the-means mentality is exactly what’s driving the NHL owners this time around.

But the players have already waived the white flag. They've offered the owners the 50/50 revenue split for which they were hoping, and the NHLPA moderates are ready to further discuss terms of a truce if Bettman and the NHL owners are willing to throw an olive branch or two the players’ way.

"We want to play," Bruins forward Shawn Thornton said recently. "But there hasn’t been one bone thrown our way [by the owners] to where guys would say if it went to a vote right now we could live with it. There are things that have to be addressed.

“If there were a couple of bones thrown in there then there’d be enough moderates to voice their opinions to Don [Fehr]. But it hasn’t been that way at all. We keep giving and [the owners] keep saying ‘Thanks . . . what else have you guys got?’ Until that changes, nothing [about the lockout] is going to change."

The players aren’t responding kindly to being bullied by board room brutes like Jacobs, but there’s little they can do about it if they want to get back on the ice. The only people that speak the kind of voice that Jacobs and Co. will understand is the ticket-purchasing public.

Bruins fans can show their disapproval of the Jacobs-led NHL lockout by canceling season tickets, switching to the AHL or college hockey instead of the local NHL product, or simply changing the channel when the games come back. For business mavens like Jacobs, that is the only language they understand.
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Re: Lockout

Postby llipgh2 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:39 pm



Emptynetters posted this link, with the comment that said (paraphrasing), NFL powerful owners like the Rooneys and Maras aren't bullies. They use their positions to mediate and reach workable solutions.

Jacobs just seems like a miserable SOB.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:46 pm

NFL owners do what's best for the NFL. NHL owners do what's best for their bottom line (again, paraphrasing Seth).
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:48 pm

llipgh2 wrote:


Emptynetters posted this link, with the comment that said (paraphrasing), NFL powerful owners like the Rooneys and Maras aren't bullies. They use their positions to mediate and reach workable solutions.

Jacobs just seems like a miserable SOB.


Jacobs is pretty universally hated among Bruins fans, which says a lot.

It also puts the lockout in perspective when you realize that he's the chairman of the NHL's Board of Governors.
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Re: Lockout

Postby interstorm on Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:02 pm

tfrizz wrote:
fans can show their disapproval of the Jacobs-led NHL lockout by canceling season tickets, switching to the AHL or college hockey instead of the local NHL product, or simply changing the channel when the games come back. For business mavens like Jacobs, that is the only language they understand.

...and by boycotting any company the NHL has a business relationship with. Start with Bridgestone, the headline sponsor of the Winter Classic.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:09 pm

tfrizz wrote:
Jacobs turned out to be a giant loser coming out of the last lockout, and now his Buffalo-sized ego is looking for a dramatic, one-sided win against the players coming out of this season’s work stoppage. That one-way, ends-justify-the-means mentality is exactly what’s driving the NHL owners this time around.

But the players have already waived the white flag. They've offered the owners the 50/50 revenue split for which they were hoping, and the NHLPA moderates are ready to further discuss terms of a truce if Bettman and the NHL owners are willing to throw an olive branch or two the players’ way.

"We want to play," Bruins forward Shawn Thornton said recently. "But there hasn’t been one bone thrown our way [by the owners] to where guys would say if it went to a vote right now we could live with it. There are things that have to be addressed.

“If there were a couple of bones thrown in there then there’d be enough moderates to voice their opinions to Don [Fehr]. But it hasn’t been that way at all. We keep giving and [the owners] keep saying ‘Thanks . . . what else have you guys got?’ Until that changes, nothing [about the lockout] is going to change."

The players aren’t responding kindly to being bullied by board room brutes like Jacobs, but there’s little they can do about it if they want to get back on the ice. The only people that speak the kind of voice that Jacobs and Co. will understand is the ticket-purchasing public.

Bruins fans can show their disapproval of the Jacobs-led NHL lockout by canceling season tickets, switching to the AHL or college hockey instead of the local NHL product, or simply changing the channel when the games come back. For business mavens like Jacobs, that is the only language they understand.


the point in the article where i stopped taking it seriously...
When Patriots owner Robert Kraft helped broker an NFL labor deal before regular season games were affected, it appeared as though his love for the game of football and his concern for NFL fans played a role. There is no love of hockey coming from the end chair at NHL Board of Governors meetings. Instead there are quarterly reports, profit margins and calculated formulas telling NHL owners when it makes the most fiscal sense to open the doors to the regular season.


more fairy tale crap from yet another sports writer.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:22 pm

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu ... --nhl.html

Look, we all know Alex Oveckin's jetting to the KHL the moment the owners lock him out for various reasons. Crosby's different: He's the poster child for the League, and Canada's Golden Boy. If he leaves North America to play in Europe, it becomes a global hockey story and a "canary in a coal mine" one at that — how bad are things if Sidney Crosby would take his fragile neck to play in what amount to professional scrimmages in his eyes?

His leaving would have optic and political fallout. Frankly, it'd be an embarrassment to the League that it's gotten this far.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:24 pm

interstorm wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
fans can show their disapproval of the Jacobs-led NHL lockout by canceling season tickets, switching to the AHL or college hockey instead of the local NHL product, or simply changing the channel when the games come back. For business mavens like Jacobs, that is the only language they understand.

...and by boycotting any company the NHL has a business relationship with. Start with Bridgestone, the headline sponsor of the Winter Classic.


the idea of someone who loves the bruins consciously changing the channel when they come on, and flipping over to some crappy AHL game is laughable. i don't know how people who write for a living can be ok with having that kind of notion in their body of work. the funny thing is that this article is clearly on the "pro-player" side, but the notion of boycotting sponsors and season tickets and all that just hurts the NHLPA as much as it does the owners.
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