Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby Bathgate on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:24 pm

Here is the common sense approach that Fehr and the PA should have followed. Preferring confrontation, they blew it, and so EVERYBODY is going to be a loser: owners, players, fans, team employees, hockey-dependent businesses, and local governments.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/11/28/grange_nhl_cba_marvin_miller_donald_fehr/
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:45 pm

i actually liked wysh at puck daddy before this lockout, but he's such an idiot now. i don't think he's even just printing nonsense to help bring in more readers. i think he actually believes his own drivel. from his latest piece of junk...

Back in 2004-05, when Jacobs was a driving force in the NHL's work stoppage, he painted the players as myopic and framed the owners as the ones attempting to save the League. From the Buffalo News on Feb. 26:

"This is the silliness," [Jacobs] said. "It's the drinking-the-Kool Aid sort of thing where you have guys out there who think, 'We're going to make it so bad for the owners that they're going to want us back.' The fact is this is getting worse, and it's getting worse for the players more than it is for us."


this is an attempt at making jacobs seem like some irrational bully - but jacobs is 100% correct in every way here. and this isn't even some speculative thing about THIS lockout. it's a straight fact that jacobs was correct. and not only was he correct, but if he was a driving force behind the 2004 lockout, the dude should be given a freaking medal.
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Re: Lockout

Postby HockeyDaddy on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:03 pm

The longer this lockout goes, the better the Jordan Staal trade looks.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:07 pm

Rory Boylen ‏@THNRoryBoylen
If the NHL won the Powerball lottery, I'm sure it'd somehow figure it as a loss. #lockout #NHL
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:08 pm

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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:08 pm

HockeyDaddy wrote:The longer this lockout goes, the better the Jordan Staal trade looks.


Can you expand on that a little? I still feel the same about it... i wish we could of traded him any where instead of only to Carolina. But Ray i felt got us the best return possible from Carolina.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:13 pm

Jordan would have been UFA at season's end, if I'm not mistaken. So we quite possibly would've lost him without any return at all, right?
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Re: Lockout

Postby HockeyDaddy on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:18 pm

Gaucho wrote:Jordan would have been UFA at season's end, if I'm not mistaken. So we quite possibly would've lost him without any return at all, right?


Exactly. So by trading him before a season that may not exist, the Penguins essentially lost nothing and gained Sutter and some picks. Rutherford has to be kicking himself right now.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:23 pm

Gaucho wrote:Jordan would have been UFA at season's end, if I'm not mistaken. So we quite possibly would've lost him without any return at all, right?


yeah. if the season's cancelled, that is one hell of a trade. if the season isn't cancelled, i still adamantly dislike it.

the silver lining to a cancelled season for most folks around here is that kennedy may never play another game for the pens. :evil:
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:33 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Jordan would have been UFA at season's end, if I'm not mistaken. So we quite possibly would've lost him without any return at all, right?


yeah. if the season's cancelled, that is one hell of a trade. if the season isn't cancelled, i still adamantly dislike it.



All things considered, I'm delighted by the trade. I'd rather have kept Jordan, but he obviously had other plans. Too bad he didn't tell Shero earlier.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:41 pm

Gaucho wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Jordan would have been UFA at season's end, if I'm not mistaken. So we quite possibly would've lost him without any return at all, right?


yeah. if the season's cancelled, that is one hell of a trade. if the season isn't cancelled, i still adamantly dislike it.



All things considered, I'm delighted by the trade. I'd rather have kept Jordan, but he obviously had other plans. Too bad he didn't tell Shero earlier.


And, while he's certainly not on a Jordan Staal level, Sutter is more than capable of centering the Pens' third line.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:45 pm

HockeyDaddy wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Jordan would have been UFA at season's end, if I'm not mistaken. So we quite possibly would've lost him without any return at all, right?


Exactly. So by trading him before a season that may not exist, the Penguins essentially lost nothing and gained Sutter and some picks. Rutherford has to be kicking himself right now.


Sure but hindsight is 20 20 on that. Even though in theory they could have just signed him regardless of what Staal said you risk losing him in a big trade and signing to another team, money always talks.

It's not out of the realm of possibilities.

All in all I am afraid we are going to miss Staal more than we realize but not sure we could have gotten a better return on a trade than what we got.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:51 pm

I guess we can thank Jordan for missing out on a potentially better return. No hard feelings, though.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:06 pm

Matthew Sekeres ‏@mattsekeres
Am told by 2 NHL sources that #Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs forced employees to pay tax on 2011 Stanley Cup rings. About $7K per ring. Cont...

Matthew Sekeres ‏@mattsekeres
Some support staff couldn't afford the tax up front, so players stepped up and covered the cost so they could get rings too.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:20 pm

Jacobs is the tool of tools.
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Re: Lockout

Postby beLIEve on Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:23 pm

tfrizz wrote:Matthew Sekeres ‏@mattsekeres
Am told by 2 NHL sources that #Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs forced employees to pay tax on 2011 Stanley Cup rings. About $7K per ring. Cont...

Matthew Sekeres ‏@mattsekeres
Some support staff couldn't afford the tax up front, so players stepped up and covered the cost so they could get rings too.


That's an incredibly biased spin by a radio talk show host looking for ratings. An owner of a private company FORCED employees to pay income taxes on Stanley Cup rings? I'm pretty sure the federal government is the entity that forces employees to pay income taxes.

He could have easily said the Bruins didn't pay the tax on behalf of employees. But that's a little less attention grabbing and a lot closer to the truth.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Bioshock on Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:35 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Jacobs is the tool of tools.


Agreed
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Re: Lockout

Postby meow on Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:43 pm

tfrizz wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Jordan would have been UFA at season's end, if I'm not mistaken. So we quite possibly would've lost him without any return at all, right?


yeah. if the season's cancelled, that is one hell of a trade. if the season isn't cancelled, i still adamantly dislike it.



All things considered, I'm delighted by the trade. I'd rather have kept Jordan, but he obviously had other plans. Too bad he didn't tell Shero earlier.


And, while he's certainly not on a Jordan Staal level, Sutter is more than capable of centering the Pens' third line.

He certainly fits the role better.
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Re: Lockout

Postby llipgh2 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:50 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Jacobs is the tool of tools.


Anyone who mocks Cam Neely for never winning the SC in his speech to fans, at the Stanley Cup parade for the 2011 Bruins, is definitely the Tool of Tools.

And he looks like Gollum.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:12 pm

meow wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Jordan would have been UFA at season's end, if I'm not mistaken. So we quite possibly would've lost him without any return at all, right?


yeah. if the season's cancelled, that is one hell of a trade. if the season isn't cancelled, i still adamantly dislike it.



All things considered, I'm delighted by the trade. I'd rather have kept Jordan, but he obviously had other plans. Too bad he didn't tell Shero earlier.


And, while he's certainly not on a Jordan Staal level, Sutter is more than capable of centering the Pens' third line.

He certainly fits the role better.


in that staal is better than a 3rd liner and sutter is worse than staal - then yes
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:19 pm

shmenguin wrote:
meow wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
shmenguin wrote:yeah. if the season's cancelled, that is one hell of a trade. if the season isn't cancelled, i still adamantly dislike it.



All things considered, I'm delighted by the trade. I'd rather have kept Jordan, but he obviously had other plans. Too bad he didn't tell Shero earlier.


And, while he's certainly not on a Jordan Staal level, Sutter is more than capable of centering the Pens' third line.

He certainly fits the role better.


in that staal is better than a 3rd liner and sutter is worse than staal - then yes


Basically, Staal is a 2nd line center (imo) who is relegated to 3rd line with the Pens because he's being two of the best players in the world. For whatever reason, the move to wing wasn't going to happen.

Sutter is a 3rd line center, and will fill the spot just fine. He won't chip in offensively like Staal did, but he also comes at a huge price drop. When weighing the options, the deal is more good than bad for the Pens.
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Re: Lockout

Postby meow on Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:20 pm

shmenguin wrote:
meow wrote:He certainly fits the role better.


in that staal is better than a 3rd liner and sutter is worse than staal - then yes

In the sense that Sutter is more the protypical 3rd line center and Staal is better suited for second line duties.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:31 pm

beLIEve wrote:
tfrizz wrote:Matthew Sekeres ‏@mattsekeres
Am told by 2 NHL sources that #Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs forced employees to pay tax on 2011 Stanley Cup rings. About $7K per ring. Cont...

Matthew Sekeres ‏@mattsekeres
Some support staff couldn't afford the tax up front, so players stepped up and covered the cost so they could get rings too.


That's an incredibly biased spin by a radio talk show host looking for ratings. An owner of a private company FORCED employees to pay income taxes on Stanley Cup rings? I'm pretty sure the federal government is the entity that forces employees to pay income taxes.

He could have easily said the Bruins didn't pay the tax on behalf of employees. But that's a little less attention grabbing and a lot closer to the truth.


is this real anyways. $7,000 per ring in taxes means he sprung already for about $25,000 per ring per employee to what 150-200 players and employees. Not sure I would bash him for going 5 million on rings.

7,000 cost per ring means about a grand per employee in taxes. still tough but without comparison to what is the norm.

Not sure what other teams have done but I know the pens or steelers (cant remember which) gave knock off rings to the employees and the regular rings to the players and top guns.

Would those same people pay a tax for a real ring? Do most teams give knock offs and the bruins people have real rings?

I could care less but just saying this story doesn't quite smell right.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:40 pm

tfrizz wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
meow wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
All things considered, I'm delighted by the trade. I'd rather have kept Jordan, but he obviously had other plans. Too bad he didn't tell Shero earlier.


And, while he's certainly not on a Jordan Staal level, Sutter is more than capable of centering the Pens' third line.

He certainly fits the role better.


in that staal is better than a 3rd liner and sutter is worse than staal - then yes


Basically, Staal is a 2nd line center (imo) who is relegated to 3rd line with the Pens because he's being two of the best players in the world. For whatever reason, the move to wing wasn't going to happen.

Sutter is a 3rd line center, and will fill the spot just fine. He won't chip in offensively like Staal did, but he also comes at a huge price drop. When weighing the options, the deal is more good than bad for the Pens.


my statement was just to make sure no one was suggesting that sutter will perform better than staal did on line 3. that would be a ludicrous notion.

whether it was a good trade or not is certainly up for debate. i understand both sides. personally, i thought we should just give it one more shot with the best players possible - even if it meant losing staal for nothing at the end of the year.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:43 pm

Reports on Twitter that mediation between NHL and NHLPA has failed; sides are too far apart, apparently.

Guess decertification is the next step.
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