Lockout

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:51 pm

Relax, seriously.
Gaucho
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 42,094
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:22 am
Location: The Onyx Club

Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:52 pm

that article about jacobs is loose stool. the writer lost total credibility when he starts talking about bob kraft and his love for the NFL which helped end the lockout - not the 9 FIGURE payout he was at risk of losing. then within that snippet, the one thing that's in quotes "new kids on the block" is just simply a fact. and interestingly, this wasn't in quotes, "and informed him that he would know when he was allowed to speak in the NHL board room" - which means it's subjective paraphrase city. and then this story was denied by parties involved. so there's that.

jacobs is probably a cheap rotten bastard. but that's not atypical for successful business owners.
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 23,185
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:54 pm

and then there's the thing about how jacobs screwed over his own team to cut costs a while back. that's not really pertinent to this lockout, but it's something that many boston sports writers have never forgiven him for.

most hockey writers have been exposed as a bunch of naive clowns over the last couple months
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 23,185
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: Lockout

Postby Tim Thomasen on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:57 pm

shmenguin wrote:that article about jacobs is loose stool. the writer lost total credibility when he starts talking about bob kraft and his love for the NFL which helped end the lockout - not the 9 FIGURE payout he was at risk of losing. then within that snippet, the one thing that's in quotes "new kids on the block" is just simply a fact. and interestingly, this wasn't in quotes, "and informed him that he would know when he was allowed to speak in the NHL board room" - which means it's subjective paraphrase city. and then this story was denied by parties involved. so there's that.

jacobs is probably a cheap rotten bastard. but that's not atypical for successful business owners.


I didn't know the article was crap. I saw it on thepensblog and decided to comment it.

Before the Bruins won the cup, there were numerous stories that were written about Jacobs' cheapness and of how bad he was as an owner. The articles were linked on wikipedia but after they won the cup, his wiki page was washed.
Tim Thomasen
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: You know, it's just not death with dignity if there's an Estevez in the room

Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:00 pm

Tim Thomasen wrote:
shmenguin wrote:that article about jacobs is loose stool. the writer lost total credibility when he starts talking about bob kraft and his love for the NFL which helped end the lockout - not the 9 FIGURE payout he was at risk of losing. then within that snippet, the one thing that's in quotes "new kids on the block" is just simply a fact. and interestingly, this wasn't in quotes, "and informed him that he would know when he was allowed to speak in the NHL board room" - which means it's subjective paraphrase city. and then this story was denied by parties involved. so there's that.

jacobs is probably a cheap rotten bastard. but that's not atypical for successful business owners.


I didn't know the article was crap. I saw it on thepensblog and decided to comment it.

Before the Bruins won the cup, there were numerous stories that were written about Jacobs' cheapness and of how bad he was as an owner. The articles were linked on wikipedia but after they won the cup, his wiki page was washed.


yeah, he's made some poor decisions with his own team, but he should be commended for his work in the 2004 CBA. instead you get this crap from puck daddy:

Back in 2004-05, when Jacobs was a driving force in the NHL's work stoppage, he painted the players as myopic and framed the owners as the ones attempting to save the League. From the Buffalo News on Feb. 26:

"This is the silliness," [Jacobs] said. "It's the drinking-the-Kool Aid sort of thing where you have guys out there who think, 'We're going to make it so bad for the owners that they're going to want us back.' The fact is this is getting worse, and it's getting worse for the players more than it is for us."


somehow this is supposed to be a dig on jacobs. i don't understand how.
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 23,185
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Re: Lockout

Postby Tim Thomasen on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:07 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Tim Thomasen wrote:
shmenguin wrote:that article about jacobs is loose stool. the writer lost total credibility when he starts talking about bob kraft and his love for the NFL which helped end the lockout - not the 9 FIGURE payout he was at risk of losing. then within that snippet, the one thing that's in quotes "new kids on the block" is just simply a fact. and interestingly, this wasn't in quotes, "and informed him that he would know when he was allowed to speak in the NHL board room" - which means it's subjective paraphrase city. and then this story was denied by parties involved. so there's that.

jacobs is probably a cheap rotten bastard. but that's not atypical for successful business owners.


I didn't know the article was crap. I saw it on thepensblog and decided to comment it.

Before the Bruins won the cup, there were numerous stories that were written about Jacobs' cheapness and of how bad he was as an owner. The articles were linked on wikipedia but after they won the cup, his wiki page was washed.


yeah, he's made some poor decisions with his own team, but he should be commended for his work in the 2004 CBA. instead you get this crap from puck daddy:

Back in 2004-05, when Jacobs was a driving force in the NHL's work stoppage, he painted the players as myopic and framed the owners as the ones attempting to save the League. From the Buffalo News on Feb. 26:

"This is the silliness," [Jacobs] said. "It's the drinking-the-Kool Aid sort of thing where you have guys out there who think, 'We're going to make it so bad for the owners that they're going to want us back.' The fact is this is getting worse, and it's getting worse for the players more than it is for us."


somehow this is supposed to be a dig on jacobs. i don't understand how.


Your not going to hear any complaints out of me about how him and the other owners handled the lockout. The NHL was in deep trouble financially and the league was stronger with the addition of the cap and the 24% rollbacks of salaries.

I wouldn't get mad with things PD has spewed out. People think that site is the be all to end all of hockey reporting, when in fact it's just a blog and Wysh has bias towards and againist certain teams. Plus everyday then employ Ryan Lambert as a writer, is less credibility they have with me. Just my opinion though.
Tim Thomasen
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: You know, it's just not death with dignity if there's an Estevez in the room

Re: Lockout

Postby mikey287 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:15 pm

Gaucho wrote:Relax, seriously.


Couldn't be more relaxed. I've got it easy now...
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,501
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Lockout

Postby the riddler on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:23 pm

Image
the riddler
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 890
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:20 pm

Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:35 pm

shmenguin wrote:that article about jacobs is loose stool. the writer lost total credibility when he starts talking about bob kraft and his love for the NFL which helped end the lockout - not the 9 FIGURE payout he was at risk of losing. then within that snippet, the one thing that's in quotes "new kids on the block" is just simply a fact. and interestingly, this wasn't in quotes, "and informed him that he would know when he was allowed to speak in the NHL board room" - which means it's subjective paraphrase city. and then this story was denied by parties involved. so there's that.

jacobs is probably a cheap rotten bastard. but that's not atypical for successful business owners.


Especially since Bob Kraft notoriously has a low payroll by NFL and big market standards. The guy screwed the team and fans over by signing Brady to a huge and discount and then never using the money on players to help win, just pocketing it.
BurghersAndDogsSports
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,117
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa

Re: Lockout

Postby Tim Thomasen on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:43 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
shmenguin wrote:that article about jacobs is loose stool. the writer lost total credibility when he starts talking about bob kraft and his love for the NFL which helped end the lockout - not the 9 FIGURE payout he was at risk of losing. then within that snippet, the one thing that's in quotes "new kids on the block" is just simply a fact. and interestingly, this wasn't in quotes, "and informed him that he would know when he was allowed to speak in the NHL board room" - which means it's subjective paraphrase city. and then this story was denied by parties involved. so there's that.

jacobs is probably a cheap rotten bastard. but that's not atypical for successful business owners.


Especially since Bob Kraft notoriously has a low payroll by NFL and big market standards. The guy screwed the team and fans over by signing Brady to a huge and discount and then never using the money on players to help win, just pocketing it.


I didn't know that (never cared enough to look into it). I always just thought from what other people say that Bob Kraft is this ultra good guy who changed the culture and fortune of the Pats when he bought them in the mid 90's. That it's because of his savvy that the Pats became the finest organizations in football. Not to mention he funded Gillette with no public money. Guess we can chalk that up to Belichick and Brady more than anything else.
Tim Thomasen
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: You know, it's just not death with dignity if there's an Estevez in the room

Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:44 pm

tfrizz wrote:
no name wrote:
meow wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
no name wrote:The only difference in Staal and Sutter is a little offence. Sutter is a defenisve standout just not the hands Staal has. But concider a 2 mill. price tag to Staals 6 million offer Shero gave him... Well honestly i think that money is better spent on a winger for Sid.


just "a little" offense?

eeehhhhhh

I think you are going to be surprised at how talented Sutter is offensively. He's no slouch.



I admit i am no Sutter expert, but i think Staal can put up 30 a year on a first or second line with real talent around him and on playing first powerplay unit. He will get better stats than he got hear. So i do place him a good bit better offence talent than Sutter. If Sutter can reach 20 goals i will be estatic.


In the 2009-10 season, Sutter put up 21g + 19a in 72 games with Carolina. In the last two season, he's posted 17+15 and 14+15 which is pretty respectable for a 3rd liner.


To be clear I have zero problem with trade. We got fine return for Staals value and I think it was a good cap move long term. Sutter will be a fine addition.

But any thoughts that Sutter can even come half way to replicating Staals role as a defensive or offensive player is crazy in my opinion.

Yes Sutter can play defense but Staal has ever intangible asset over him.

All that aside why it's goings to trouble me without Staal. When Crosby or Malkin are hurt our second line right now is Dupuis Sutter Kennedy.

Don't underestimate Staals ability when he lead this team on his own or as the 2nd best player. With Sutter and not Staal we are worse of a team short term until we use the cap space to savings to sign another mid level player, and then it's debatable.
BurghersAndDogsSports
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,117
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa

Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:47 pm

Tim Thomasen wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
shmenguin wrote:that article about jacobs is loose stool. the writer lost total credibility when he starts talking about bob kraft and his love for the NFL which helped end the lockout - not the 9 FIGURE payout he was at risk of losing. then within that snippet, the one thing that's in quotes "new kids on the block" is just simply a fact. and interestingly, this wasn't in quotes, "and informed him that he would know when he was allowed to speak in the NHL board room" - which means it's subjective paraphrase city. and then this story was denied by parties involved. so there's that.

jacobs is probably a cheap rotten bastard. but that's not atypical for successful business owners.


Especially since Bob Kraft notoriously has a low payroll by NFL and big market standards. The guy screwed the team and fans over by signing Brady to a huge and discount and then never using the money on players to help win, just pocketing it.


I didn't know that (never cared enough to look into it). I always just thought from what other people say that Bob Kraft is this ultra good guy who changed the culture and fortune of the Pats when he bought them in the mid 90's. That it's because of his savvy that the Pats became the finest organizations in football. Not to mention he funded Gillette with no public money. Guess we can chalk that up to Belichick and Brady more than anything else.


I have no problem with him but for a few years they were 20th in the NFL in payroll. I guess my only point is that the comparison of the two owners is in the eye of the beholder, or which ever fact they want to use to paint their own opinion.
BurghersAndDogsSports
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,117
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa

Re: Lockout

Postby mikey287 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:47 pm

Yeah, we're gonna miss Jordan Staal. One of the league's heaviest heavy-lifters...
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,501
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:47 pm

We haven't really seen much of Sutter with this team, so I don't think you can say he doesn't have "the" intangibles yet.
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,942
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: Lockout

Postby Tim Thomasen on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:50 pm

mikey287 wrote:Yeah, we're gonna miss Jordan Staal. One of the league's heaviest heavy-lifters...


We are. I think people are underestimating what that man brought to the team in terms of goal scoring and PKing. But we had to make this deal. He wanted out because we wanted to play with his brother and wanted to be more than play on the 3rd line. If it was up to the Pens, he still be here.
Tim Thomasen
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: You know, it's just not death with dignity if there's an Estevez in the room

Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:52 pm

MRandall25 wrote:We haven't really seen much of Sutter with this team, so I don't think you can say he doesn't have "the" intangibles yet.


Sorry I didn't mean it that way, more physical type intangibles. He is just flat out a much much much better player all around than Sutter, in his role and as a top line fill in when needed.

I think fans are going to be shocked at what we are missing.
BurghersAndDogsSports
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,117
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa

Re: Lockout

Postby Tim Thomasen on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:53 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Tim Thomasen wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
shmenguin wrote:that article about jacobs is loose stool. the writer lost total credibility when he starts talking about bob kraft and his love for the NFL which helped end the lockout - not the 9 FIGURE payout he was at risk of losing. then within that snippet, the one thing that's in quotes "new kids on the block" is just simply a fact. and interestingly, this wasn't in quotes, "and informed him that he would know when he was allowed to speak in the NHL board room" - which means it's subjective paraphrase city. and then this story was denied by parties involved. so there's that.

jacobs is probably a cheap rotten bastard. but that's not atypical for successful business owners.


Especially since Bob Kraft notoriously has a low payroll by NFL and big market standards. The guy screwed the team and fans over by signing Brady to a huge and discount and then never using the money on players to help win, just pocketing it.


I didn't know that (never cared enough to look into it). I always just thought from what other people say that Bob Kraft is this ultra good guy who changed the culture and fortune of the Pats when he bought them in the mid 90's. That it's because of his savvy that the Pats became the finest organizations in football. Not to mention he funded Gillette with no public money. Guess we can chalk that up to Belichick and Brady more than anything else.


I have no problem with him but for a few years they were 20th in the NFL in payroll. I guess my only point is that the comparison of the two owners is in the eye of the beholder, or which ever fact they want to use to paint their own opinion.


Got it. Kinda of like the fact everyone in this city regards the Rooneys as saint like figures despite the fact with the moves they make in terms of handling "bad seeds" for instance, that there no different with any other owner in the NFL?
Tim Thomasen
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: You know, it's just not death with dignity if there's an Estevez in the room

Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:53 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:We haven't really seen much of Sutter with this team, so I don't think you can say he doesn't have "the" intangibles yet.


Sorry I didn't mean it that way, more physical type intangibles. He is just flat out a much much much better player all around than Sutter, in his role and as a top line fill in when needed.

I think fans are going to be shocked at what we are missing.


And I think I'm reserving judgement until he actually plays.
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,942
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:54 pm

Tim Thomasen wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Yeah, we're gonna miss Jordan Staal. One of the league's heaviest heavy-lifters...


We are. I think people are underestimating what that man brought to the team in terms of goal scoring and PKing. But we had to make this deal. He wanted out because we wanted to play with his brother and wanted to be more than play on the 3rd line. If it was up to the Pens, he still be here.


Do not disagree with anything you wrote. I think there are just some that are underestimating how Sutter replacing Staal will affect the team.
BurghersAndDogsSports
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,117
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa

Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:57 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:We haven't really seen much of Sutter with this team, so I don't think you can say he doesn't have "the" intangibles yet.


Sorry I didn't mean it that way, more physical type intangibles. He is just flat out a much much much better player all around than Sutter, in his role and as a top line fill in when needed.

I think fans are going to be shocked at what we are missing.


And I think I'm reserving judgement until he actually plays.


Dude, he is not a rookie.
BurghersAndDogsSports
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,117
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa

Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:03 pm

Tim Thomasen wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Tim Thomasen wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
shmenguin wrote:that article about jacobs is loose stool. the writer lost total credibility when he starts talking about bob kraft and his love for the NFL which helped end the lockout - not the 9 FIGURE payout he was at risk of losing. then within that snippet, the one thing that's in quotes "new kids on the block" is just simply a fact. and interestingly, this wasn't in quotes, "and informed him that he would know when he was allowed to speak in the NHL board room" - which means it's subjective paraphrase city. and then this story was denied by parties involved. so there's that.

jacobs is probably a cheap rotten bastard. but that's not atypical for successful business owners.


Especially since Bob Kraft notoriously has a low payroll by NFL and big market standards. The guy screwed the team and fans over by signing Brady to a huge and discount and then never using the money on players to help win, just pocketing it.


I didn't know that (never cared enough to look into it). I always just thought from what other people say that Bob Kraft is this ultra good guy who changed the culture and fortune of the Pats when he bought them in the mid 90's. That it's because of his savvy that the Pats became the finest organizations in football. Not to mention he funded Gillette with no public money. Guess we can chalk that up to Belichick and Brady more than anything else.


I have no problem with him but for a few years they were 20th in the NFL in payroll. I guess my only point is that the comparison of the two owners is in the eye of the beholder, or which ever fact they want to use to paint their own opinion.


Got it. Kinda of like the fact everyone in this city regards the Rooneys as saint like figures despite the fact with the moves they make in terms of handling "bad seeds" for instance, that there no different with any other owner in the NFL?


I mean sure, it's not a response or issue exclusive to the lockout or comparing Boston owners.

I just think a lot of folks, including the media are really starting to dig deep for negative stories and this article was a good example of that. Over the past few days I have seen what we are talking about and also issues with the income tax on the employees rings when no real facts, costs, comparisons or real story was involved......

...not too mention the owners meeting and Winnipeg story.

It's just getting to be a bit much.
BurghersAndDogsSports
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,117
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa

Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:08 pm

Sutter = Jordan Staal light, same player, but overall less in every catorgory.

And excelent point by the other poster, if Sid of Geno go down, we no longer got Staal to plug into a second line.

And yes Shero had to make that move, you can't let a asset like that walk for nothing. But i would of liked to see what he could of gotten us on the open market =, instead of being forced to one team. But that was the position we were put in and Shero cam away with a nice return.
no name
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,113
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:19 pm

Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:22 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:We haven't really seen much of Sutter with this team, so I don't think you can say he doesn't have "the" intangibles yet.


Sorry I didn't mean it that way, more physical type intangibles. He is just flat out a much much much better player all around than Sutter, in his role and as a top line fill in when needed.

I think fans are going to be shocked at what we are missing.


And I think I'm reserving judgement until he actually plays.


Dude, he is not a rookie.


No ****, dude.

He was playing in a limited role with Carolina. I want to see what he can do ON THIS TEAM
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,942
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:54 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:We haven't really seen much of Sutter with this team, so I don't think you can say he doesn't have "the" intangibles yet.


Sorry I didn't mean it that way, more physical type intangibles. He is just flat out a much much much better player all around than Sutter, in his role and as a top line fill in when needed.

I think fans are going to be shocked at what we are missing.


And I think I'm reserving judgement until he actually plays.


Dude, he is not a rookie.


No ****, dude.

He was playing in a limited role with Carolina. I want to see what he can do ON THIS TEAM


Relax man, I agree. I look forward to his expanded role on the penguins behind Sid and Geno.
BurghersAndDogsSports
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,117
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa

Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:59 pm

game 4 against detroit. score is 2-1. enter "the" intagibles.

staal has moments of sheer super humanism. whatever sutter will bring, he won't bring that.
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 23,185
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: farnham16, GSdrums87, saints11 and 10 guests


e-mail