Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby offsides on Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:52 am

opie22002 wrote:I think it's time for Mario to step in.


It's tough to fix a garage league.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:22 pm

Bioshock wrote:
opie22002 wrote:I think it's time for Mario to step in.


Unfortunately, i don't think Mario has much respect in the NHL outside of Pittsburgh. People respect his accomplishments on the ice but remember what happened when he came out against what the Islanders did? Low lives like Garth Snow openly mocked him in public. I can't remember the exact quote and I'm paraphrasing here but i remember someone in the NHL saying, "If Mario wants to change the game so much, how about he shows up to ANY of our meetings."

I don't think Mario should step into this unless he brings Burkle with him. Otherwise, this could be extremely ugly.


Yeah, there is a lot to touch on here. But first, (and as you I am not claiming to be stating fact) but would guess it would be hard for Mario to show up and make deal altering discussion happen. There seems to have been a lot of bad blood. The issue could be brought up that Mario has never been a very "active" NHL owner. That can be two fold - he doesnt want to be, or two which most people fail to realize he is not actually the owner. I imagine he is chairman for name only. There are tons of minority investors in sports. Rich powerful ones too.

The other issue is that Mario is a driving force for the Pens "player" wise and doesnt want to mortgage bad blood for future free agent signings (again just a complete guess).

That being said, I think deep down Mario cares but yes, he has battled his own league many times. The garage league stuff (if you go back and watch the clips of that game after which he said it, I think him and Jagr got thrown out) it was probably the worst officiating I have ever seen in my entire life, it almost bordered on "it cant really be that bad this has to be a joke". But beyond the officiating the infamous NY Islanders game took a % of my love for the game away too. I imagine how those involved felt. It was the aftermath in realizing that no other league would have stood for that. Yes, hockey has always had fighting, but the sucker punches (Talbot came close to having his year ended, 1/2 inch away from a sucker punch knockout blow) and beyond were frightening. The league in reality lucked out that the only player seriously hurt was Tangradi so the news ignored it.

It was after that game and the pathetic punishments doled out that I realized its never going to change, I need to accept that a few times per year I am going to really be disgusted (not - Roger Goodell random fines disgusted, but turn off the game, do something else disgusted).

It isnt out of the realm of reality that there have been more issues with Mario behind closed doors, that he fought for what he believes and there is bad blood. Or that he isnt welcome with not a lot of business background and not being the owner.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Bioshock on Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:33 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Bioshock wrote:
opie22002 wrote:I think it's time for Mario to step in.


Unfortunately, i don't think Mario has much respect in the NHL outside of Pittsburgh. People respect his accomplishments on the ice but remember what happened when he came out against what the Islanders did? Low lives like Garth Snow openly mocked him in public. I can't remember the exact quote and I'm paraphrasing here but i remember someone in the NHL saying, "If Mario wants to change the game so much, how about he shows up to ANY of our meetings."

I don't think Mario should step into this unless he brings Burkle with him. Otherwise, this could be extremely ugly.


Yeah, there is a lot to touch on here. But first, (and as you I am not claiming to be stating fact) but would guess it would be hard for Mario to show up and make deal altering discussion happen. There seems to have been a lot of bad blood. The issue could be brought up that Mario has never been a very "active" NHL owner. That can be two fold - he doesnt want to be, or two which most people fail to realize he is not actually the owner. I imagine he is chairman for name only. There are tons of minority investors in sports. Rich powerful ones too.

The other issue is that Mario is a driving force for the Pens "player" wise and doesnt want to mortgage bad blood for future free agent signings (again just a complete guess).

That being said, I think deep down Mario cares but yes, he has battled his own league many times. The garage league stuff (if you go back and watch the clips of that game after which he said it, I think him and Jagr got thrown out) it was probably the worst officiating I have ever seen in my entire life, it almost bordered on "it cant really be that bad this has to be a joke". But beyond the officiating the infamous NY Islanders game took a % of my love for the game away too. I imagine how those involved felt. It was the aftermath in realizing that no other league would have stood for that. Yes, hockey has always had fighting, but the sucker punches (Talbot came close to having his year ended, 1/2 inch away from a sucker punch knockout blow) and beyond were frightening. The league in reality lucked out that the only player seriously hurt was Tangradi so the news ignored it.

It was after that game and the pathetic punishments doled out that I realized its never going to change, I need to accept that a few times per year I am going to really be disgusted (not - Roger Goodell random fines disgusted, but turn off the game, do something else disgusted).

It isnt out of the realm of reality that there have been more issues with Mario behind closed doors, that he fought for what he believes and there is bad blood. Or that he isnt welcome with not a lot of business background and not being the owner.


My feelings exactly. Mario might be a hero in this town (Rightfully so) but this is a league that has openly mocked him and has owners like Jacobs who openly mocks his own. Just look at the Islanders fiasco a few years ago and the subsequent rulings on it. Hell, that franchise was about to have a movie glorifying it until the news media picked up on it.

Just... look at who you're dealing with...

I think Mario knows this and will stay away. He can save a franchise, not a league. Especially one that doesn't want saving.
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Re: Lockout

Postby skullman80 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:18 pm

Mario stepping in will do nothing.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:28 pm

All it takes is 8 people who disagree with him, and I'm sure there are more.

One owner isn't going to change everything, especially when there are owners who are hell-bent on breaking the players.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:16 pm

skullman80 wrote:Mario stepping in will do nothing.



Maybe if Mario sends one of his inspirtional text to all the players will change something.

"come on guy, just sign the damn thing, you'll still be rich."
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:28 pm

why would we assume the penguins, including lemieux, disapprove of the the league's stance?
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:30 pm

Good point.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Froggy on Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:38 pm

shmenguin wrote:why would we assume the penguins, including lemieux, disapprove of the the league's stance?


i think the pens are probably the posterboys for what the league is saying...

brand new state of the art arena
arguably the 2 best players in the world
great tv ratings
sell out every game

not making any money
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Re: Lockout

Postby firepower on Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:11 pm

Unfortunatly for alot of NHL fans it looks like the NHL is trying to go the way of the twinkie. They'll probably lose a few teams, ... Phoenix, Florida ... Lose about 1/2 the fans in the U.S.(which may kill a few more teams), lose most of the TV and arena sponsorships(which may kill a few more teams), lose some star players in the process which will kill attendence in some areas(which may kill a few more teams).... Hmmmm might be the origional six all over again.
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Re: Lockout

Postby scals37 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:08 pm

firepower wrote:Unfortunatly for alot of NHL fans it looks like the NHL is trying to go the way of the twinkie. They'll probably lose a few teams, ... Phoenix, Florida ... Lose about 1/2 the fans in the U.S.(which may kill a few more teams), lose most of the TV and arena sponsorships(which may kill a few more teams), lose some star players in the process which will kill attendence in some areas(which may kill a few more teams).... Hmmmm might be the origional six all over again.

maybe this is what the mayans were actually predicting......... :scared:
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Re: Lockout

Postby ulf on Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:49 pm

Per Dregers twitter, Burkle wants to get involved.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:56 pm

ulf wrote:Per Dregers twitter, Burkle wants to get involved.


To me, that looked more speculative than anything. He's just throwing out names
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:14 pm

there is no hope.
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Re: Lockout

Postby malksby8771 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:38 pm

no name wrote:there is no hope.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve0ancSwldI
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Re: Lockout

Postby pens_CT on Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:15 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
ulf wrote:Per Dregers twitter, Burkle wants to get involved.


To me, that looked more speculative than anything. He's just throwing out names

The players don't want to face Burkle. Hs is known as a tough negotiator from his days in dealing with the grocery store unions in California. The players would much rather face moderate owners who are willing to cave in. Burkle might be more moderate than Jacobs, but he isn't caving in to the players either.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Bioshock on Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:20 pm

pens_CT wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
ulf wrote:Per Dregers twitter, Burkle wants to get involved.


To me, that looked more speculative than anything. He's just throwing out names

The players don't want to face Burkle. Hs is known as a tough negotiator from his days in dealing with the grocery store unions in California. The players would much rather face moderate owners who are willing to cave in. Burkle might be more moderate than Jacobs, but he isn't caving in to the players either.


Yeah, when i hear the name Burkle.... Yeah... The players aren't going to get someone who is warm and fuzzy when it comes to negotiations. Heard he's pretty nasty when it comes to this stuff. He was in a locked room with Ed Rendell for christ sake!
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:07 am

They still haven't decided?
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Re: Lockout

Postby Bioshock on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:32 am

Gaucho wrote:They still haven't decided?


Yep, the NHLPA is doing it's normal "Drag their feet" technique.
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Re: Lockout

Postby columbia on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:34 am

You really have to appreciate the sense of urgency in this process.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Bioshock on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:40 am

columbia wrote:You really have to appreciate the sense of urgency in this process.


Indeed. And after these next talks fail, you will see players like Crosby and others state that we "should be meeting every day if we want to get a deal done!"

Morons...
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Re: Lockout

Postby Steve on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:45 am

Gaucho wrote:They still haven't decided?


They probably are arguing over who would pick up the bill for meeting refreshments.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:59 am

Bioshock wrote:
Gaucho wrote:They still haven't decided?


Yep, the NHLPA is doing it's normal "Drag their feet" technique.


Gotta figure it's more than just "dragging their feet". There's no way Fehr et al want this meeting to go through; they fear what may or may not be said without them there, especially when you're dealing with a business-savvy bunch of owners vs a bunch of relatively uneducated players. The "dragging" is almost certainly the fact that the players want to do it and the NHLPA execs don't want them to.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Bioshock on Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:11 pm

tfrizz wrote:
Bioshock wrote:
Gaucho wrote:They still haven't decided?


Yep, the NHLPA is doing it's normal "Drag their feet" technique.


Gotta figure it's more than just "dragging their feet". There's no way Fehr et al want this meeting to go through; they fear what may or may not be said without them there, especially when you're dealing with a business-savvy bunch of owners vs a bunch of relatively uneducated players. The "dragging" is almost certainly the fact that the players want to do it and the NHLPA execs don't want them to.


If that were true, then you have to seriously question the leadership of the NHLPA then. Fehr is obligated to do what the majority of players want. If he refuses, then you fire him.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:35 pm

The players get to pick which owners they meet with, right? Could just be people don't agree on who to meet with?
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