Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby Mr. Colby on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:34 pm

Is it really necessary to have a contract length maximum AND a +/- 5% variance clause? There should really be no contract length limit - if a guy wants to sign for his career and never have to worry about it again, he should be able to. The 5% takes care of cap circumvention.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:35 pm

McKenzie, Dreger, even LeBrun not optimistic at the moment.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:38 pm

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Many players here don't like what's on table - "what's in it for us" mantra - but many others not here say this could be a workable deal.


What's in it for you? Seriously? What do the players want, exactly? Mind boggling.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:38 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:Is it really necessary to have a contract length maximum AND a +/- 5% variance clause? There should really be no contract length limit - if a guy wants to sign for his career and never have to worry about it again, he should be able to. The 5% takes care of cap circumvention.


My take is because the NHL is guaranteed and the league still, with a new cba is running a tight budget.

Can create competitive issues with teams offering less yearly cash but 7 extra years.

Again, I get it to a point but I think the players still need to grasp that the NHL is not as valuable for most teams as other major sports.
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Re: Lockout

Postby joopen on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:40 pm

Gaucho wrote:Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Many players here don't like what's on table - "what's in it for us" mantra - but many others not here say this could be a workable deal.


What's in it for you? Seriously? What do the players want, exactly? Mind boggling.


They want to go back to the roughly 71% they had before the cap :face:

I don't get it. What are they lookin for? Fehr is a lot of things I can't say on here.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Hawkeynut on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:41 pm

@dutchysc: Sorry, I just can't take the two sides seriously. There are kids starving for a cracker and they can't split 3.2 billion a year.

Sums up my feelings.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Rylan on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:43 pm

I hate Hate HATE starvation problems being used as a "down to Earth" example with business. Annoys me to no end.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:43 pm

Yeah, lame.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:52 pm

The media is playing everyone like a fiddle. Exactly what they want you guys to do.

Just relax. Let whatever happens happen.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:54 pm

The media is playing everyone like a fiddle. Exactly what they want you guys to do.

Just relax. Let whatever happens happen.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Hawkeynut on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:56 pm

Gaucho wrote:Yeah, lame.


About as lame as this ridiculous process.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:16 pm

Are they still talking about tweeking the existing cap circumvention deals in place??? This i would image be a sticking point.

I really don't see how the 5 yr. deal really helps or hurts players. Well the Loungo deal yeah since he stinks now it does hurt Van.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:23 pm

Godric wrote:
shmenguin wrote:eh...i think they're all grown ups. the things that seems reactive and emotional have probably been calculated moves. i doubt it's a house of cards like it's being described as.


No, I'm pretty sure its a house of cards.


well look at today's collapse. it wasn't because of anything delicate. whether you came in with kids gloves or a bazooka, the same result would have happened. they're still divided on real issues.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:49 pm

ImageImage
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Re: Lockout

Postby Godric on Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:52 pm

Love Jeremy piven as Ari gold
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:28 pm

Ok let me figure out a solutiuon for the contracts... Players can sign a one time (during their career) 9 year deal with a club all other times they sign has to be 5 yrs or less, after 37 yrs of age a player can only sign one year deals. A player who signs a 9 year deal, automaticly gets a no trade clause, you are glued to that team. But that players contract get a 10% cap discount. So a player who signs a 10 million contrat would only count 9 million on the cap. Only one player on your roster can have this 10% relief.

Will someone fax this to Gary and Don??
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:35 pm

I don't understand how any of that would be helpful
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:52 pm

Godric wrote:10 year CBA
$300M make whole
Unchanged UFA and arbitration rules
5% contract variance
5 year contract length (7 for own players)

and the players won't take it?

lulz they r retarded.


Sounds like a nice plan to me. WTF else do they want? :?
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:55 pm

joopen wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
joopen wrote:Ok so the players want their contracts fulfilled. Owners say OK but we want long term labor peace. Players respond with LULZ


It's not that. It's the fact they can't sign a deal for longer than 7 years during the entire CBA. Some players want the assurance that they'll be set contract-wise.


So sign a new contract after 5 years?

The contracts are guaranteed. You want longer terms then let's talk about that


Honestly, how many players sign contracts longer than 7 years? Not many that I remember, mostly just some of the top stars. So they're holding things from going forward, hurting all the regular and lower ranked players. Do I have that right?
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Re: Lockout

Postby beLIEve on Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:56 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:Is it really necessary to have a contract length maximum AND a +/- 5% variance clause? There should really be no contract length limit - if a guy wants to sign for his career and never have to worry about it again, he should be able to. The 5% takes care of cap circumvention.


Kind of, yeah. It wouldn't be as bad as it is now, but you could still circumvent the cap by exploiting AAV vs years played. I could see where teams would sign a Brad Richards type of player who is 30 years old to a 12 year deal when he only plans to play 6 or so. Start him at 12 million, decrease it 5% every year.

year 01 - 12,000,000
year 02 - 11,400,000
year 03 - 10,830,000
year 04 - 10,288,500
year 05 - 9,774,075
year 06 - 9,285,371
year 07 - 8,821,102
year 08 - 8,380,047
year 09 - 7,961,045
year 10 - 7,562,992
year 11 - 7,184,843
year 12 - 6,825,601

The AAV (and thus cap hit) of that contract is 9,192,798, yet he gets paid more than that in every year that he plays hockey. The day he retires, his cap hit is off the books. Cap has been succesfully circumvented.

That's an extreme case, but it shows the potential to exploit by the rich teams with "superstar" players that tend to retire early anyway.



To me, and to others I've seen mention it, the solution is simple. No term limits. No % variance limits. Whatever a player gets paid that year, that is his cap hit. Retiring doesn't take it off the books.

Yes its less flexible. Yes its unlikely to pass from either side, especially the NHLPA. But its the simplest way to stop cap cheating.

Edit: Actually, I got ahead of myself. Retiring could take it off the books in this case. It wouldnt matter, as no cheating would have gone on in the early years. So its even simpler than I originally thought.
Last edited by beLIEve on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Lockout

Postby newarenanow on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:00 pm

Are they still meeting today?
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:00 pm

newarenanow wrote:Are they still meeting today?


Tentatively, yes. The PA is having internal meetings right meow.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:02 pm

This is all so screwed up it makes me giggle.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:09 pm

shmenguin wrote:I don't understand how any of that would be helpful


Sometimes a crazy idea helps you think outside the box and finds a solution, other times it makes you appericate the old way. Either way in the end you just hope to find a solution.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:18 pm

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Players from around the league have called into internal NHLPA meetings all day long... Crunch time. Big decisions being made on next step
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