Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby llipgh2 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:36 pm

Chris Johnston:
The federal mediators are in Washington and would have to travel to New York in the NHL accepts the NHLPA's request.


And? They jump on a plane and fly to NYC. So what?

This has to be the stupidest tweet so far.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:38 pm

penny lane wrote:Is Brian Burke considered a moderate?


Brian Burke isn't an owner.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:46 pm

Can anyone in here tell me what the players have gained from this new CBA if its accepted... anyone... waiting... "a cricket chirps"

That is why Fehr doesn't want them to accept it.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Defence21 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:49 pm

no name wrote:Can anyone in here tell me what the players have gained from this new CBA if its accepted... anyone... waiting... "a cricket chirps"

That is why Fehr doesn't want them to accept it.

When the league tells players they can't play, I'm not sure it's a matter of the players "gaining" anything so much as it is about reducing their losses as much as possible. Maybe I'm way off with this -- but I just don't see how they get many gains here, and I don't recall any gains from the last time around, either.
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Re: Lockout

Postby pens_srq on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:49 pm

Players needed to get something out of this? How about their salaries went up while there was a recession? That's what they already got. Now it's time for a correction. Get over it. My guess is that some players are seeing the monster that they have unleashed now.
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Re: Lockout

Postby penny lane on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:52 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
penny lane wrote:Is Brian Burke considered a moderate?


Brian Burke isn't an owner.


he has been attending the meetings... per some of the media tweets.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:57 pm

LeBrun says meeting to start in ~ an hour at the earliest.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Mr. Colby on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:03 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:What do you guys expect? Seriously.

The players hired Fehr for a reason. He's not going to sit there and let the owners take everything from the players. What do you expect?


LOL this can't be serious


And saying "Lololol Fehr's having a hissy fit" is?

And what's so bad about what I said. There's a reason the players hired Fehr. If you don't like it, tough ****.


What's been with you lately? Hostile these days.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:03 pm

no name wrote:Can anyone in here tell me what the players have gained from this new CBA if its accepted... anyone... waiting... "a cricket chirps"

That is why Fehr doesn't want them to accept it.


this is exactly why this is still going on, this thought right here and the players accepting it as some sort of truth. The players gain something EVERY year in getting paid with no financial risk. They are never in the negative.

Most owners LOSE something every year not to mention contract loopholes that threaten the balance of the league, which threatens the long term health which threatens the dollars.

This is not about the players gaining anything, never has been, never will be.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Mr. Colby on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:07 pm

Yeah, this isn't about the players "getting" anything... they already got, and will continue to get in the future if they give now. And the sooner they give, the sooner they'll get.

They're getting a great deal - anything more than 50/50 is not only bad for the league, it doesn't make sense! Why should they get a higher % than other sports when their sport has the highest operating costs? Yet this "Make Whole" deal is making it take several years to get to 50/50...

The owners are giving more than they should IMO, and they're doing it because they want to get a deal done. Fehr doesn't, or else he hasn't shown the willingness to at any point. He's made one, ONE actual proposal throughout this entire 3-month lockout.
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Re: Lockout

Postby meow on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:21 pm

penny lane wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
penny lane wrote:Is Brian Burke considered a moderate?


Brian Burke isn't an owner.


he has been attending the meetings... per some of the media tweets.

You're thinking of Ron Burkle
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Re: Lockout

Postby Fire0nice228 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:28 pm

pens_srq wrote:Players needed to get something out of this? How about their salaries went up while there was a recession? That's what they already got. Now it's time for a correction. Get over it. My guess is that some players are seeing the monster that they have unleashed now.


ding ding ding! The salary cap floor is currently over $10 million more than the CEILING was in 2005. Not all teams can keep up with that type of growth.. time to reign it in or share more money. What do players get?? Salary, chartered flights, meal stipends, the best hotels, the best doctors, guaranteed money even if their hands turn to stone tomorrow, contracts grow if the league grows, etc. etc. etc.

The owners write all these checks, and they have to, because if they dont have the best of everything for their players word spreads and your suddenly the Flames or the Oilers where everyone wants out because the Owners dont coddle you like the other teams. The want to stop the bleeding. can't blame them.

These guys need to sign a deal. Whatever they lose if the season is cancelled they'll never makeup on the back end except for the entry level guys who will be superstars like Eberle and Hall, etc..
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Re: Lockout

Postby Fire0nice228 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:28 pm

meow wrote:
penny lane wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
penny lane wrote:Is Brian Burke considered a moderate?


Brian Burke isn't an owner.


he has been attending the meetings... per some of the media tweets.

You're thinking of Ron Burkle


False. Brian Burke was involved. Burke. The Leafs General Manager.


Darren Dreger Darren DregerVerified ‏@DarrenDreger

Leafs GM, Brian Burke will join the CBA talks tonight in New York. Maybe a dose of pugnacity or truculence will spark progress?
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Re: Lockout

Postby offsides on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:34 pm

no name wrote:Can anyone in here tell me what the players have gained from this new CBA if its accepted... anyone... waiting... "a cricket chirps"

That is why Fehr doesn't want them to accept it.


They will never get back what they have lost so far. If they are waiting to "gain" something, we won't have hockey for years.
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Re: Lockout

Postby joopen on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:35 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:What do you guys expect? Seriously.

The players hired Fehr for a reason. He's not going to sit there and let the owners take everything from the players. What do you expect?


LOL this can't be serious


And saying "Lololol Fehr's having a hissy fit" is?

And what's so bad about what I said. There's a reason the players hired Fehr. If you don't like it, tough ****.


What's been with you lately? Hostile these days.


He's been firmly planted in the players' corner this entire time blaming everything on the owners who, according to him don't have to make any money because they make money in their other endeavors. You can't expect anything other than this from him recently.

I do have to give him a lot of credit tho for sticking to his guns. Has stood up to anyone who challenges him.
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Re: Lockout

Postby joopen on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:36 pm

offsides wrote:
no name wrote:Can anyone in here tell me what the players have gained from this new CBA if its accepted... anyone... waiting... "a cricket chirps"

That is why Fehr doesn't want them to accept it.


They will never get back what they have lost so far. If they are waiting to "gain" something, we won't have hockey for years.

For them it shouldn't be about winning. It should be about losing as little as possible because they will in fact lose.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Bioshock on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:37 pm

I have been reading a lot of what has been flying around via twitter today and what the NHLPA said about the CBA length makes absolutely no sense at all.

Why the hell would they want a 5 year CBA? That is the worst idea for them from a PR standpoint and from a fiscal standpoint. What is there to be gained by going through all this again in 4 years? I say 4 years because any CBA is retroactive back to October and we are already eating into it. They are just opening themselves up to more lost paychecks in another lockout. Also, THE FANS WILL HATE THEM. Everyone knows that we are gonna do this all over again in 4 years instead of 9 or 10.

Just dumb.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:39 pm

joopen wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:What do you guys expect? Seriously.

The players hired Fehr for a reason. He's not going to sit there and let the owners take everything from the players. What do you expect?


LOL this can't be serious


And saying "Lololol Fehr's having a hissy fit" is?

And what's so bad about what I said. There's a reason the players hired Fehr. If you don't like it, tough ****.


What's been with you lately? Hostile these days.


He's been firmly planted in the players' corner this entire time blaming everything on the owners who, according to him don't have to make any money because they make money in their other endeavors. You can't expect anything other than this from him recently.

I do have to give him a lot of credit tho for sticking to his guns. Has stood up to anyone who challenges him.


If there's one thing I'm good at, it's sticking to my stupidity!

No, but seriously. I'm confused to how it's bad that I side with the players (my terrible reasonings aside), but people can throw out equally stupid stuff in favor of the owners and no one sees a problem with it?

That's what's drawing my ire. You ignore basically the whole entire side, so somewhere in my mind, I have to be just as reactive for the other side (I've done this before, it's sort of becoming my MO).
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:40 pm

joopen wrote:
offsides wrote:
no name wrote:Can anyone in here tell me what the players have gained from this new CBA if its accepted... anyone... waiting... "a cricket chirps"

That is why Fehr doesn't want them to accept it.


They will never get back what they have lost so far. If they are waiting to "gain" something, we won't have hockey for years.

For them it shouldn't be about winning. It should be about losing as little as possible because they will in fact lose.


And that's why they hired Fehr in the first place.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:40 pm

joopen wrote:
offsides wrote:
no name wrote:Can anyone in here tell me what the players have gained from this new CBA if its accepted... anyone... waiting... "a cricket chirps"

That is why Fehr doesn't want them to accept it.


They will never get back what they have lost so far. If they are waiting to "gain" something, we won't have hockey for years.

For them it shouldn't be about winning. It should be about losing as little as possible because they will in fact lose.


Which is why, as Kevin Allen put it, "the players need to win on the majority of secondary issues". As it stands right now, the only thing they've been able to win is having the league decide to leave the UFA age as it was in the previous CBA.
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Re: Lockout

Postby pens_srq on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:41 pm

Lets say they go with the 57/43 split. Go with no changes under previous CBA. The teams at the bottom lose all revenue because they cannot even spend to the cap floor. The fans in those markets stop going to games. The teams in those markets are unsellable because business men will not buy them. The total league revenue goes down as the league contracts. Then there are less jobs for players and the 57% equals less money as the NHL business as a whole did not correct obvious problems. So what the owners are proposing is actually going to make money for the players by growing the total revenue for the league. Whereas the players want stuff now and can't see the forest from the trees.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Mr. Colby on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:42 pm

I mean, Fehr's biggest theme is he wants to make it so the league knows the players won't stand for getting "even more taken away" in the next CBA... if that's really your theme then why would you not want to sign this one for as long as possible?
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:43 pm

i think the players always knew and accepted that they were going to be the unanimous losers of this CBA. it's always been a battle of the degree in which they would lose.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Bioshock on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:44 pm

pens_srq wrote:Lets say they go with the 57/43 split. Go with no changes under previous CBA. The teams at the bottom lose all revenue because they cannot even spend to the cap floor. The fans in those markets stop going to games. The teams in those markets are unsellable because business men will not buy them. The total league revenue goes down as the league contracts. Then there are less jobs for players and the 57% equals less money as the NHL business as a whole did not correct obvious problems. So what the owners are proposing is actually going to make money for the players by growing the total revenue for the league. Whereas the players want stuff now and can't see the forest from the trees.


That's why it's hard to negotiate with people who don't understand economics.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:47 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:I mean, Fehr's biggest theme is he wants to make it so the league knows the players won't stand for getting "even more taken away" in the next CBA... if that's really your theme then why would you not want to sign this one for as long as possible?


yeah, i don't understand this either. the players benefit from this just as much as the owners, it seems
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