Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:08 am

btw, I'm sure there are some bigmouth players who are pushing Fehr to keep fighting, so as someone correctly noted, it isn't all on Fehr. I think I know a few names, but what surprises me is that lack of tough skin on the part of some of the lesser players who should at this point insist on a league-wide vote.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Senka on Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:03 am

Im not really upset over it anymore. I follow it every day and I hope it will get done, but its no longer a OMG I CAN'T WAIT FOR HOCKEY, like it was in October. If it doesnt happen, it doesnt happen. Im not holding my breath anymore. I havent been on LGP in a minute though -- I feel like I needed to post so people knew Im alive. Thats all I gots to say about thattt.. Im upset with both sides. Its a loss for all fans so no sense getting mad.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:08 am

I know I care way too much.

From DK's column:

The owners should immediately consider John Collins, the league's sharp, young chief operating officer who came from the NFL and conceived the Winter Classic, struck the 10-year deal with NBC and softened the league's touch with social media and young fans. Word is, Collins is so upset with the lockout and what's become of his achievements that he's considering leaving the league.

Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/dejankovacev ... z2EMaIoiKK
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook
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Re: Lockout

Postby pens_CT on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:04 am

Gaucho wrote:I know I care way too much.

From DK's column:

The owners should immediately consider John Collins, the league's sharp, young chief operating officer who came from the NFL and conceived the Winter Classic, struck the 10-year deal with NBC and softened the league's touch with social media and young fans. Word is, Collins is so upset with the lockout and what's become of his achievements that he's considering leaving the league.

Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/dejankovacev ... z2EMaIoiKK
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook


So DK asks Bettman a dumb a** question, then Bettman gives him a nothing answer back so its time for a new commissioner? You sit there all day as a reporter and all you cn think to ask is how does a commissioner justify two lockouts in eight years? Great Journalism at work there on his part. Does anybody seriously think if Bettman was fired today that it would make a difference towards getting an agreement?
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:06 am

It is rather one-sided, yes.
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Re: Lockout

Postby columbia on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:38 am

I tried to patient, but Dejan is becoming a sensationalist tool ala Rossi.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:02 am

DudeMan2766 wrote:
@BrandonPrust8: I'm done caring.. We keep moving and giving.. This 1 way street sucks



Just mind numbingly infuriating :evil:


prust is pretty much the worst living person on earth.

the players love this slant where they say theyre the only ones compromising. i don't know which is dumber....that or the "we're not to blame because we're willing to play under the old CBA" thing.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:09 am

columbia wrote:I tried to patient, but Dejan is becoming a sensationalist tool ala Rossi.


I enjoyed the part about Bettman's eye twitching and his hand trembling. Isn't it widely thought that he has early-stage Parkinson's?
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Re: Lockout

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:10 am

Why was the nhlpa's proposal met with "no" and no further scheduled talks? Why not come back and say this cant work because...and how about this instead. This is a negotiation, not a contract bid. This is how the nhl has been operating all along. Say what you want about the nhlpa, but no matter how you look at it, they are making very real efforts to keep things moving, and the nhl is not.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:12 am

Tim Thomasen wrote:
GaryRissling wrote:I don't really get people- including dejan- who say bettman has to go if the season is cancelled. Fehr represents hockey players; and those players have to trust him. Bettman represents, for the most part, businessmen many of whom are experienced in negotiation. If the owners wanted Bettmen to act any differently, he would in a heartbeat. If you blame Bettmen, you have to include the owners in that blame almost 100%.

IMO, the owners are going to force the players to cave on the contract terms even if it takes all 2013 to do it. And, the longer this goes on, the more it's imperative for the owners to give less to the players so the next time the cba is up, be it in 6,8, or 10 years; the players will know that they'll once again be the ones to pay the price for an extended lock out. I'd hate it, but I'd understand if this even goes in to next season.

If the owners cave, I think there's probably going to be a better chance of another lost season the next time the cba is up.


God does Dejan has no clue about what he's saying. Whatever it's hockey or baseball, he's become so out of touch and very annoying ever since he became a columnist for the Trib. Your right about Bettman. Just like Fehr represents the players, Bettman represents the owners. They tell him what to do and he executes their plan. That's why I laugh at these players and fans who blame all of the world's problems on him. If your going to blame Bettman, you have to then blame the owners as well.


Dejan is nothing more than a twitter troll. He picks fights with other columnists across the globe and responds to what seems like 10 year olds making stupid tweets.

For fun read his chat from yesterday. He gets so offended and acts like a child when someone questions his temper tantrums about the pirates.

He ends up referencing it sarcastically the entire time. I really only read him now because he is so bad and cocky. It's pure entertainment.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:19 am

Im glad people are finally seeing how awful he is. He has always been horrible but for some reason people tolerated him for a while
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Re: Lockout

Postby shafnutz05 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:25 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Im glad people are finally seeing how awful he is. He has always been horrible but for some reason people tolerated him for a while


It admittedly took me a while to come around, because I was sympathetic to his rants against the Pirates. But yeah, it's getting ridiculous at this point. His continued rampage against Hoka Hey is amusing
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:26 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Why was the nhlpa's proposal met with "no" and no further scheduled talks? Why not come back and say this cant work because...and how about this instead. This is a negotiation, not a contract bid. This is how the nhl has been operating all along. Say what you want about the nhlpa, but no matter how you look at it, they are making very real efforts to keep things moving, and the nhl is not.


Well, the irony to me is the league gave a bunch of concessions backs and everyone seemed happy, the free agent rules and $300 million make good or whatever they call it. The players seemed to have agreed.

The points of giving those back was in exchange for the years and such. If you negotiate points then take back your side of movement that's not negotiating. Al that Fehr is doing now is saying "see see see they gave up more lets keep doing this, Hhahahahah". Eventually someone will walk away from the table because of complete mistrust which is what the owners did. I'm fine with it.

Now the players are crying foul because its a one way street. I mean were they even listening the past few days?
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:28 am

DudeMan2766 wrote:
@BrandonPrust8: I'm done caring.. We keep moving and giving.. This 1 way street sucks



Just mind numbingly infuriating :evil:


To be fair, the majority of the NHL's proposals/offers have come with "this is the best we can do, take it or leave it". As was the case yesterday, the NHLPA has tried negotiating off those offers and were quickly refused.

It has, in essence, been a one-way street with the "take it or leave it" attitude.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:29 am

Tim Thomasen wrote:
Steve wrote:Every time the NHL makes their "best offer" - Fehr gets them to make a better one. (or so it seems to me). At some point, enough will be enough - and I think from the owners side, that's where we are at now. If the "moderate" owners such as Burkle etc are livid over this - I think that could be an indicator – that the NHLPA isn’t receiving any more better deals. In fact, I think they may not get a deal as good as the most recent one.

I also think both sides, are underestimating the damage this is doing, from a fans perspective. Yes, we will come back - but maybe not as fast as they think - or as enthusiastic (including a willingness to spend $$$) as last time. To me, this league is now tainted. How long that takes to wear off, if ever, I’m not sure.


I think it may take a year or so, but I do agree the fans will eventually come back. Once a deal is reached and the game resaumes, the ill will the fans have towards the league and players will eventually fade away.


That should be their official slogan for fan relations.

"NHL Lockout: Because we know you'll come running back."
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:29 am

shafnutz05 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Im glad people are finally seeing how awful he is. He has always been horrible but for some reason people tolerated him for a while


It admittedly took me a while to come around, because I was sympathetic to his rants against the Pirates. But yeah, it's getting ridiculous at this point. His continued rampage against Hoka Hey is amusing


The Hoka Hey thing was out of control. I saw him pick a fight with like a New Jersey columnist on twitter. The guy was replying real calm and normal. Dejan was going crazy.

It's like 50% cocky and all knowing, 50% immature twitter troll even in his columns.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:35 am

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Why was the nhlpa's proposal met with "no" and no further scheduled talks? Why not come back and say this cant work because...and how about this instead. This is a negotiation, not a contract bid. This is how the nhl has been operating all along. Say what you want about the nhlpa, but no matter how you look at it, they are making very real efforts to keep things moving, and the nhl is not.


Well, the irony to me is the league gave a bunch of concessions backs and everyone seemed happy, the free agent rules and $300 million make good or whatever they call it. The players seemed to have agreed.

The points of giving those back was in exchange for the years and such. If you negotiate points then take back your side of movement that's not negotiating. Al that Fehr is doing now is saying "see see see they gave up more lets keep doing this, Hhahahahah". Eventually someone will walk away from the table because of complete mistrust which is what the owners did. I'm fine with it.

Now the players are crying foul because its a one way street. I mean were they even listening the past few days?


All i see is a normal response to a proposal, im not sure what the pa changed that affects league revenue streams...and im not sure why the league cared.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:35 am

GaryRissling wrote:I don't really get people- including dejan- who say bettman has to go if the season is cancelled. Fehr represents hockey players; and those players have to trust him. Bettman represents, for the most part, businessmen many of whom are experienced in negotiation. If the owners wanted Bettmen to act any differently, he would in a heartbeat. If you blame Bettmen, you have to include the owners in that blame almost 100%.

IMO, the owners are going to force the players to cave on the contract terms even if it takes all 2013 to do it. And, the longer this goes on, the more it's imperative for the owners to give less to the players so the next time the cba is up, be it in 6,8, or 10 years; the players will know that they'll once again be the ones to pay the price for an extended lock out. I'd hate it, but I'd understand if this even goes in to next season.

If the owners cave, I think there's probably going to be a better chance of another lost season the next time the cba is up.


There's going to be a lost season regardless. If the owners cave, there will be another lockout so they can get the contracting rights they wanted; if the players cave, there will be a strike because they feel like the owners are asking them to give up absolutely everything they've got in terms of rights (and on top of the money).
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Re: Lockout

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:37 am

You ever get the feeling you were being played? After listening to the pressers in full last night, listening to the words chosen and such, I couldn't help but think that both sides know exactly when things will be resolved and this was too soon. They are pretty much right together with lockout losses far exceeding any gains the players will get moving forward. The owners could've pressed that the players put a proposal to vote but the owners never really put a formal one out there. A safe move as it might have resolved this which they are not ready for.

make no mistake, I am 100% on the owner's side, I just wish they would be honest about their go-live date.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:37 am

GaryRissling wrote:IMO, the owners are operating much more in the interests of cities like Pittsburgh than the players are. Breaking fehr, even just a little, is worth a lost season. The owners know what they're doing.


Both sides are operating in the interests of their own wallets, nothing more.
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Re: Lockout

Postby penny lane on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:38 am

Scottie Upshall ‏@ScottieUpshall
Plain and simple these owners think they can break us apart. GOOD LUCK! We r stronger than we've ever been and r behind Fehr %100


^ I read this last evening and all I could picture was TK kicking his arse at center ice, day the pens beat the flyers and advanced to the finals.

Spoiler:
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:38 am

westside wrote:If you look at the NBA lockout ebb and flow, it's very similar to the current NHL situation. It's almost exactly the same BS and posturing we're seeing now. That kind of makes me believe there will be a deal. Just like the NBA talks the 2 sides inch closer ******** and complaining every single step. Both make scary threats and accuse the other side of 'not wanting to negotiate'. Hard liners on both sides make it harder than it should be. Then all the sudden, bam. 'Tentative agreement' comes out of some marathon meeting. Not sure exactly why but it made me feel better about today's clusterf***.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NBA_lockout


But the NBA deal got done when the NBAPA disclaimed interest. Bettman has threatened the NHLPA saying that if they begin the decertification process or file a disclaimer of interest the season will be cancelled immediately.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:40 am

I dont think there will be a strike, the owners will prevent a strike and just lock the players out. When we see the lockout and lost season before fehr and thenthe lockout and lost season after him, i think people will realize he wasnt the problem...or maybe its more realistic to think people will still blame him as well as retroactively blame him for 04-05.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:45 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Why was the nhlpa's proposal met with "no" and no further scheduled talks? Why not come back and say this cant work because...and how about this instead. This is a negotiation, not a contract bid. This is how the nhl has been operating all along. Say what you want about the nhlpa, but no matter how you look at it, they are making very real efforts to keep things moving, and the nhl is not.


Well, the irony to me is the league gave a bunch of concessions backs and everyone seemed happy, the free agent rules and $300 million make good or whatever they call it. The players seemed to have agreed.

The points of giving those back was in exchange for the years and such. If you negotiate points then take back your side of movement that's not negotiating. Al that Fehr is doing now is saying "see see see they gave up more lets keep doing this, Hhahahahah". Eventually someone will walk away from the table because of complete mistrust which is what the owners did. I'm fine with it.

Now the players are crying foul because its a one way street. I mean were they even listening the past few days?


All i see is a normal response to a proposal, im not sure what the pa changed that affects league revenue streams...and im not sure why the league cared.


Because the players seemed to agree to the limits in conjunction with concessions the owners gave. Without limits or some standard rules to contract length, the continuing overall health of the league will be limited because of teams able of front load contracts and circumvent the cap. It's a large part of what made the last CBA need changed.
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Re: Lockout

Postby sil on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:49 am

Scottie Upshall ‏@ScottieUpshall
Plain and simple these owners think they can break us apart. GOOD LUCK! We r stronger than we've ever been and r behind Fehr %100


This is a direct response to the reason the league didn't want to continue talks last night. I think the NHL sees the heated internal meetings in the NHLPA and the growing dissention between the upper-tier players and career fourth-liners. They clearly want to break them up and get rid of Fehr, and their hope is that this "break in talks" will do that.

Smart move?...dumb move?...I really don't know. All moves are beginning to read dumb to me. :(
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