Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:32 pm

offsides wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:So this is how it ends... the owners and Bettman. Too much ego to negotiate. Too caught up in trying to make Donald Fehr look like the bad guy and break the union that they're willing to lose a season over it.

God I **** I hate this.


Are you kidding? No one is working to resolve the issue; the Fehr's over-promised and can't deliver, NHLPA is only representing PART of their membership in the negotiations, and the owners think they can break the union and are holding pat and bracing for a lawsuit. No one is trying to reach an agreement.... sign of the **** times.


Until they lose time in next season, no one can say that Fehr over-promised and failed to deliver. In fact, as it stands now, Fehr has delivered, the only way he fails is if the Union breaks. He has strengthened them without question, and thats what they brought him in to do.


If it was me, I would consider the loss of a paycheck for a year a failure, but that's just me.


Par for the course.
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Re: Lockout

Postby SolidSnake on Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:47 pm

The NHLPA reminds me of a bunch of punk teenagers that are trying to rebell against their parents.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:49 pm

Well, what good are teenagers if they don't rebel against their parents.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:37 pm

The union had to understand with Fehr starting to negotiate so close to the start of the season that losing money or a few pay checks was a real possiblility. Fehr thinks Hockey is just another sport and the owners are divided into money makers who run the league and poor teams who just want to survive. That is baseball. Hockey is a totally different beast.

I think the owners and Bettman are just waiting for the players to realize they won't deal with Fehr, the players rebel and a deal gets done. Or you wait til next season.

I say you allow the players to vote on the deal and see how close they are.
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Re: Lockout

Postby mikey287 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:50 pm

I believe "lol" applies here. I knew that people would try to turn this as "see the owners don't want to negotiate" ...the owners have bent over backwards already. Every dollar into this foolish "make whole" proposal is another straw closer to the camel needing a chiropractor. "Market mechanism, tough tinsel" is the baseline. Anything involving a single dollar going into that pot is bonus round for the players. It's about time the owners show a little spine in this thing. I have no problem because when the game is in the owners' hands, the league is healthy, the product is better and the players are taken care of. When the inmates run the prison you get exactly what you'd expect...

I hope the owners don't bend another inch for the good of the league.
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Re: Lockout

Postby pens_CT on Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:54 pm

Not sure what Fehr is waiting for. File a disclaimer of interest and have the players take the NHL to court to blow up the system. Fehr was brought in by the hardliners that felt they got screwed in the last CBA, so show us you are still a bad a** Don :wink:
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Re: Lockout

Postby pfim on Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:22 pm

Is this thing over yet?
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Re: Lockout

Postby pens_srq on Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:23 pm

I'd say unreasonably asking the owners to assume all risk of declining hockey revenues is a pretty big non-starter for the owners.

Also, the players demands actually hurt the game by hurting the effectiveness of the cap.

Some of the players still haven't understood/accepted that the growth of their game is due to the cap system. I would really hate for them to have to learn the hard way, but when they hired Fehr, they took a HUGE step in that direction.
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Re: Lockout

Postby CERV96 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:13 am

To ask of the owners to protect themselves is a joke IMO. There is always going to be one or two owners who will be the a-hole and break any secret code of conduct. See Ed Snider and the offer sheet to Webber. There was supposedly an unspoken rule between the GM's and owners on offer sheets and look what happenend.
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Re: Lockout

Postby canaan on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:19 am

mikey287 wrote:I believe "lol" applies here. I knew that people would try to turn this as "see the owners don't want to negotiate" ...the owners have bent over backwards already. Every dollar into this foolish "make whole" proposal is another straw closer to the camel needing a chiropractor. "Market mechanism, tough tinsel" is the baseline. Anything involving a single dollar going into that pot is bonus round for the players. It's about time the owners show a little spine in this thing. I have no problem because when the game is in the owners' hands, the league is healthy, the product is better and the players are taken care of. When the inmates run the prison you get exactly what you'd expect...

I hope the owners don't bend another inch for the good of the league.

well said.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Kovy27 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:23 am

mikey287 wrote:I believe "lol" applies here. I knew that people would try to turn this as "see the owners don't want to negotiate" ...the owners have bent over backwards already. Every dollar into this foolish "make whole" proposal is another straw closer to the camel needing a chiropractor. "Market mechanism, tough tinsel" is the baseline. Anything involving a single dollar going into that pot is bonus round for the players. It's about time the owners show a little spine in this thing. I have no problem because when the game is in the owners' hands, the league is healthy, the product is better and the players are taken care of. When the inmates run the prison you get exactly what you'd expect...

I hope the owners don't bend another inch for the good of the league.


This is where I am at, as well. At this point, the players are making foolish mistakes that could cost them more money in the long run. Fehr should have took that last proposal from the owners to a vote. I have a funny feeling it would have passed.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:26 am

CERV96 wrote:To ask of the owners to protect themselves is a joke IMO. There is always going to be one or two owners who will be the a-hole and break any secret code of conduct. See Ed Snider and the offer sheet to Webber. There was supposedly an unspoken rule between the GM's and owners on offer sheets and look what happenend.


This argument drives me nuts. It's as off base as any political stereotype out there. These rules ar not put in place to protect owners from themselves, it's for competitive balance and the growth of the league. Everyone mentions a handful of contracts as if this is some standard throughout the league. Biig money teams are going to spend more, and small market have to sign similar contracts or they can fall back into never neve land and fail to compete, which is what happened to the penguins prior to 2004. The CBA with rev sharing, a cap and stipulations bring competitive balance and revenue growth.

Btw - secret code of conduct is what you would rather have than a solid CBA? And owners whose main job is for their fans, act with the guidelines of a labor agreement are a-holes. This makes zero sense.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:36 am

Kovy27 wrote:
mikey287 wrote:I believe "lol" applies here. I knew that people would try to turn this as "see the owners don't want to negotiate" ...the owners have bent over backwards already. Every dollar into this foolish "make whole" proposal is another straw closer to the camel needing a chiropractor. "Market mechanism, tough tinsel" is the baseline. Anything involving a single dollar going into that pot is bonus round for the players. It's about time the owners show a little spine in this thing. I have no problem because when the game is in the owners' hands, the league is healthy, the product is better and the players are taken care of. When the inmates run the prison you get exactly what you'd expect...

I hope the owners don't bend another inch for the good of the league.


This is where I am at, as well. At this point, the players are making foolish mistakes that could cost them more money in the long run. Fehr should have took that last proposal from the owners to a vote. I have a funny feeling it would have passed.


I can't find the article, but Ron Hainsey told reporters that most of the players on the committee wanted to take it to a vote but they couldn't because the league didn't provide a full proposal. Then Fehr decided they'd put out their own proposal based off those things they liked.

You could take that with a grain of salt, but the fact that Bettman said "this week was not for negotiation" in his press conference lends credibility to Hainsey saying they didn't receive a full proposal.
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Re: Lockout

Postby CERV96 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:39 am

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
CERV96 wrote:To ask of the owners to protect themselves is a joke IMO. There is always going to be one or two owners who will be the a-hole and break any secret code of conduct. See Ed Snider and the offer sheet to Webber. There was supposedly an unspoken rule between the GM's and owners on offer sheets and look what happenend.


This argument drives me nuts. It's as off base as any political stereotype out there. These rules ar not put in place to protect owners from themselves, it's for competitive balance and the growth of the league. Everyone mentions a handful of contracts as if this is some standard throughout the league. Biig money teams are going to spend more, and small market have to sign similar contracts or they can fall back into never neve land and fail to compete, which is what happened to the penguins prior to 2004. The CBA with rev sharing, a cap and stipulations bring competitive balance and revenue growth.

Btw - secret code of conduct is what you would rather have than a solid CBA? And owners whose main job is for their fans, act with the guidelines of a labor agreement are a-holes. This makes zero sense.


I agree with what you are saying. I just wanted to put my two sense in on that subject on how everyone says "the owners need to police themselves".
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:40 am

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
Mediator will speak with PA this morning. If he concludes a deal is close he will recommend meeting. Flip-side...neg returns to square 1. NHL has delivered the message it is pretty much a take it or leave it, however, that doesn't mean the league won't trade on certain things.
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Re: Lockout

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:46 am

CERV96 wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
CERV96 wrote:To ask of the owners to protect themselves is a joke IMO. There is always going to be one or two owners who will be the a-hole and break any secret code of conduct. See Ed Snider and the offer sheet to Webber. There was supposedly an unspoken rule between the GM's and owners on offer sheets and look what happenend.


This argument drives me nuts. It's as off base as any political stereotype out there. These rules ar not put in place to protect owners from themselves, it's for competitive balance and the growth of the league. Everyone mentions a handful of contracts as if this is some standard throughout the league. Biig money teams are going to spend more, and small market have to sign similar contracts or they can fall back into never neve land and fail to compete, which is what happened to the penguins prior to 2004. The CBA with rev sharing, a cap and stipulations bring competitive balance and revenue growth.

Btw - secret code of conduct is what you would rather have than a solid CBA? And owners whose main job is for their fans, act with the guidelines of a labor agreement are a-holes. This makes zero sense.


I agree with what you are saying. I just wanted to put my two sense in on that subject on how everyone says "the owners need to police themselves".


Got it. I just feel right now a lot of the arguments from the players side are getting to far off base.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Myriad on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:47 am

Gaucho wrote:Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
Mediator will speak with PA this morning. If he concludes a deal is close he will recommend meeting. Flip-side...neg returns to square 1. NHL has delivered the message it is pretty much a take it or leave it, however, that doesn't mean the league won't trade on certain things.


This makes me happy. Time for the owners to dig their heels in and stop letting Fehr drive the negotiations on a sliding scale.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:59 am

I tend to side with the players, but at this point I don't know anymore what they're even asking for. If their point is that the league needs them more than they need the league I guess they're right, but if they really want to go on with this they should google Pyrrhic victory first.
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Re: Lockout

Postby ulf on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:09 am

They should just split all differences 50/50 and deal with it. No one's budging, and neither side is getting their ideal agreement.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:11 am

I think they should have a good old-fashioned brawl and go from there.
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:14 am

I actually kind of like a suggestion I saw a week or so ago. The players take on some of the financial risk, as the owners want... and in return, the owners take on some of the physical risk and 3 owners are to be concussed by Raffi Torres each season.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:51 am

it's a comical notion that the owners are the ones operating out of ego. it's a strict dollars and cents thing with them. i think it's a teency bit more likely that the guys who are used to getting everything they want in life and have limited grasps on the world of business are the ones who need an ego check.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Bathgate on Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:35 am

Mark Cuban is an owner in another sport, but he weighs in and says they have to fix the problems.

When you have all your southern franchises basically sucking wind, there's a message there that you have to fix it. I mean, you have two different worlds; the north and the south. It's kind of like the civil war right now going on, and it's got to be fixed. So, yeah I'd cringe more as a hockey fan. I'd cringe more if they don't fix it. Just like the last one, it's only been like seven years right? But I even wrote a blog back then that they should have fixed it, and they didn't.


http://www.csnne.com/basketball-boston-celtics/celtics-talk/Mavs-Cuban-NHLs-chance-to-fix-league-is-?blockID=813177&feedID=10424
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Re: Lockout

Postby Pitt87 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:52 am

Gaucho wrote:I think they should have a good old-fashioned brawl and go from there.


XFL-style scrum on important issues. :fist: :scared:
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:57 am

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
League and PA brass met this morning, however no decision has been made on a more formal meeting later today.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
Well, one side says there was a meeting this am and now the other side says there wasn't. Somewhat humorous.
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