Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:28 pm

MRandall25 wrote:@mirtle

Part of NHL's filing includes section requesting declaration that "all existing contracts between NHL players and teams would be void."


So would every NHL player be concidered a UFA? Be careful what you wish for.

This is all posturing, by both sides. Its almost comical by now, although from what i read up to this point, Fehr is at his best once these things get in a courtroom.
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Re: Lockout

Postby llipgh2 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:14 pm

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Re: Lockout

Postby opie22002 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:07 am

I'm confused...

In a nutshell, is all this legal stuff good news or bad news for reaching a deal and playing hockey this year?
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Re: Lockout

Postby DMcGrew on Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:45 am

opie22002 wrote:I'm confused...

In a nutshell, is all this legal stuff good news or bad news for reaching a deal and playing hockey this year?


The NBA had this same situation last year and they came to an agreement 2 weeks later.
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Re: Lockout

Postby offsides on Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:01 am

DMcGrew wrote:
opie22002 wrote:I'm confused...

In a nutshell, is all this legal stuff good news or bad news for reaching a deal and playing hockey this year?


The NBA had this same situation last year and they came to an agreement 2 weeks later.


Two more weeks and we would have a season starting in mid January. Doesn't hardly seem worth it.
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Re: Lockout

Postby westside on Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:56 am

For the first time I'm feeling like the season is really in jeopardy. I like to believe that both sides, given how close they are, can't be dumb enough to throw away the season... But then I remember the last lockout.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Fire0nice228 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:13 am

I hope they make the all the contracts null and void and then everyone will sign with the penguins for the hometown discount and we can have an awesome first line

Sid Geno Datsyuk
Weber Gonchar
Roy

awesome.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:24 am

Paul Bissonnette ‏@BizNasty2point0
Should I mention 'being sued by NHL' on my McDonald's resume?
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Re: Lockout

Postby drnort on Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:27 am

interstorm wrote:
Bathgate wrote:Another good article that demonstrates the idiocy of the PA for pushing this to far:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/12/14/nhl_nhlpa_lockout_difference_mlb_contraction/


I don't feel like this article hits the mark. I think the players are comfortable with a 50/50 split but have the following issues:
* owners made promises (contracts) and should keep them
* a 50/50 HRR split in theory has nothing to do with contract limits (lengths and escalators). The problem is some of these contracts in reality 'create money' by circumventing the cap (especially assuming the player retires before the contract ends). The players are not responsible for the owner's actions.
* owners willingly purchased franchises. If the blues really didn't turn a profit since inception, purchasers should very well know it.
* on a whole, the NHL has returned profits to owners at a rate close to the dow (stock market). Some nfl teams and many nba teams "lose" money. While each team should have the ability to profit, expectations should be realistic on what that profit percentage should be. Anyone expecting the average team to make 10%+ on profit each year is being unreasonable
* overall nhl franchise values have risen very well (beating the dow since 2005). Given that OWNERSHIP is more about asset appreciation (as opposed to employment will annual salary), nhl teams, on averave, fair quite well.
* players didn't pick the location of franchises. It was bettman's experiment to expand to arizona, back to atlanta and into columbus.

Does the system need to be tweaked to help all (or at least most given the current locations) profit? Definitely! Are NHL teams drowning so much it warrants "hill we die on" talk-- I don't see it. The owners also had their chance in the prior lockout and I think it is understandable why players don't want to hear, "when we steam rolled you guys last time...we didn't do it hard enough".

There is something to be said for having your shot and then missing it. If the owner's felt like they should have gotten more last time then boo-hoo if they messed up. If it is a case where they are redefining now what is acceptable (based on changes in nfl and nba labor agreements since then), well- it is then very easy to understand why the PA doesn't want to give in (as it could continue to happen) and why they hired fehr...the mirror image to bettman.

Just agree on 50/50 as an end goal and agree on a realistic transition to this. That and owners, who now cry about their businesses failing, need to run their teams like a business.


Great post. But for some reason, the majority of people around here think the players should just bow at the feet of the owners.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:44 pm

Comments like these are driving me nuts:

When I play hockey, IT COSTS ME MONEY! Come on players, show a little class. Be happy with your $550,000 minimum salary for playing a game. The owners are actually fighting to keep more of your jobs.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Antonio on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:29 pm

Gaucho wrote:Comments like these are driving me nuts:

When I play hockey, IT COSTS ME MONEY! Come on players, show a little class. Be happy with your $550,000 minimum salary for playing a game. The owners are actually fighting to keep more of your jobs.


Take out the silly part about fighting to keep your jobs, and the first part is completely true.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:05 pm

Telling other people to be happy with whatever they earn just because they earn more than yourself is completely sanctimonious, self-righteous, and silly.
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Re: Lockout

Postby offsides on Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:09 pm

Gaucho wrote:Telling other people to be happy with whatever they earn just because they earn more than yourself is completely sanctimonious, self-righteous, and silly.


Isn't there something about personal attacks on this board?
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:33 pm

llipgh2 wrote:36 players named in the NHL lawsuit. Sid was not one of them...


I've had this feeling that Sid is sick of it all and would like to tell Fehr to go shove it, but he's in a tough spot. Already fighting off criticisms for nothing, really, if he now went against the PA, he would truly be hated. Targeted. We'll read about how some players really felt about this stoppage years from now.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:35 pm

The only reason why I disagree is because he's been one of the main voices for the players. The players back Sid 100%. He wants a deal, but realizes you have to work for one.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:43 pm

Gaucho wrote:Telling other people to be happy with whatever they earn just because they earn more than yourself is completely sanctimonious, self-righteous, and silly.


A cop in Patterson NJ earns $25,000 while putting his life on the line every day. This isn't anything I made up. A friend's friend is street cop who said that how much they pay. A little reality check, Gaucho. A couple people here want me to feel sorry for a player who makes over a million dollars a year for playing a game, has free medical and whatever else they get. No. I feel bad for that police officer. I couldn't give a rat's ass about a hockey player. The league needs fixin' and these players are more interested in getting a bigger paycheck in detriment to everything else. I am not a child and will not worship these spoiled brats who got picked up as children at 18 and were made kings earning so much money in one year, many people will never make in a lifetime. They only get disdain from me from this point.
Last edited by Sarcastic on Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Alejandro Rojas on Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:43 pm

I just want something other than London v. Sudbury on the tv.
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Re: Lockout

Postby ulf on Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:46 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Telling other people to be happy with whatever they earn just because they earn more than yourself is completely sanctimonious, self-righteous, and silly.


A cop in Patterson NJ earns $25,000 while putting his life on the line every day. This isn't anything I made up. A friend's friend is street cop who said that how much they pay. A little reality check, Gaucho. A couple people here want me to feel sorry for a player who makes over a million dollars a year for playing a game, has free medical and whatever else they get. No. I feel bad for that police officer. I couldn't give a rat's ass about a hockey player. The league needs fixin' and these players are more interested in getting a bigger paycheck in detriment to everything else. I am not a child and will not worship these spoiled brats who got picked up as children at 18 and were made kings earning so much money in one year, many people will never make in a lifetime. They only get disdain from me from this point.

I don't think anyone expects you to feel sorry for the players. But I'm understanding that they should get what they're worth.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:46 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Telling other people to be happy with whatever they earn just because they earn more than yourself is completely sanctimonious, self-righteous, and silly.


A cop in Patterson NJ earns $25,000 while putting his life on the line every day. This isn't anything I made up. A friend's friend is street cop who said that how much they pay. A little reality check, Gaucho. A couple people here want me to feel sorry for a player who makes over a million dollars a year for playing a game, has free medical and whatever else they get. No. I feel bad for that police officer. I couldn't give a rat's ass about a hockey player. The league needs fixin' and these players are more interested in getting a bigger paycheck in detriment to everything else. I am not a child and will not worship these spoiled brats who got picked up as children at 18 and were made kings earning so much money in one year, many people will never make in a lifetime. They only get disdain from me from this point.


If your point is that cops are underpaid I agree. I never said anyone should feel sorry for hockey players. My point is that people should not pretend as if they'd act any different if they were in their shoes.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:47 pm

offsides wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Telling other people to be happy with whatever they earn just because they earn more than yourself is completely sanctimonious, self-righteous, and silly.


Isn't there something about personal attacks on this board?


I'm not aware of any personal attacks on my part.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:47 pm

ulf wrote:I don't think anyone expects you to feel sorry for the players. But I'm understanding that they should get what they're worth.


Average players now earn $4 million. I would slash that in half. That's how much they're really worth.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:48 pm

Gaucho wrote:If your point is that cops are underpaid I agree. I never said anyone should feel sorry for hockey players. My point is that people should not pretend as if they'd act any different if they were in their shoes.


You're right on that. Many people are selfish.

For the record, I would have signed the damn CBA a long time ago and blasted the PA for holding things up.
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Re: Lockout

Postby offsides on Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:12 pm

Gaucho wrote:
offsides wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Telling other people to be happy with whatever they earn just because they earn more than yourself is completely sanctimonious, self-righteous, and silly.


Isn't there something about personal attacks on this board?


I'm not aware of any personal attacks on my part.


What is this "completely sanctimonious, self-righteous"? What if I said that about one of your posts?
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Re: Lockout

Postby tfrizz on Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:14 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
ulf wrote:I don't think anyone expects you to feel sorry for the players. But I'm understanding that they should get what they're worth.


Average players now earn $4 million. I would slash that in half. That's how much they're really worth.

I don't know where you got that number, but the average salary is right around $2.4 million.
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Re: Lockout

Postby columbia on Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:28 pm

Do those STHs holderswho complain about the way they are treated by the Pens, also think that the players should be giving into the demands of the owners?

:pop: :wink:
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