Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby abwvu1 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:55 pm

opie22002 wrote:UPDATE(11:50 PM EST): NHLPA drafting a counterproposal this afternoon, per Nick Kypreos.


:face:
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Re: Lockout

Postby since1970 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:59 pm

...ridiculous, another counter?? I hope the owners tell them take this or we're cancelling the entire season, if Fehr wants the cap gone it's gonna cost a season of wages and then some. Bring that back to your members. I've been thru two strikes as a union member, and granted we're not as important as players, but I always laugh when I'm told we signed a UNION contract. It's a management contract, it's up to the union to get to the most management is willing to give. The company knows what their ceiling is, and the union negotiators have to find that point.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Defence21 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:00 pm

If Shero and his support team feel there are some quality players to be had, I could see a minor leaguer or a depth NHL'er bought out for the sake of opening up a contract. Maybe a Ben Lovejoy or Tyler Kennedy, for example. I'm not saying either is a terrible player or either has a bad contract -- but if Shero perceives a situation where better players could be available, this might not be the worst of ideas, allowing for a free agency addition or two post-buyout period.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:01 pm

abwvu1 wrote:
opie22002 wrote:UPDATE(11:50 PM EST): NHLPA drafting a counterproposal this afternoon, per Nick Kypreos.


:face:


agreed, Fehr will send something back totally unreaonable. He wants this to goto the courts.

The word "couterpropsal" tells me a deal won't get done. This means parts will be totally rewritten by the NHLPA, where as if this current offer was appealing to the players (or Fehr) the 2 sides would meet for a final negotiation session to tweek this deal to be finalized.
Last edited by no name on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lockout

Postby darkstar57 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:02 pm

abwvu1 wrote:
opie22002 wrote:UPDATE(11:50 PM EST): NHLPA drafting a counterproposal this afternoon, per Nick Kypreos.


:face:


It's just made me puke
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Re: Lockout

Postby Defence21 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:13 pm

darkstar57 wrote:
abwvu1 wrote:
opie22002 wrote:UPDATE(11:50 PM EST): NHLPA drafting a counterproposal this afternoon, per Nick Kypreos.


:face:


It's just made me puke

Listen, I'm not overly optimistic -- though probably more optimistic than most -- but this is something I'm pretty confident everyone expected. Heck, this morning, as news was breaking, I was reading Tweets from media members saying that it was highly unlikely the NHLPA would accept the offer as it stands simply out of principle. I'm not saying Fehr is going to come back with a reasonable counter proposal and this thing will get done. But the news that a counter proposal is being constructed should not be doom and gloom news in and of itself.
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Re: Lockout

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:14 pm

You can draft as many uni-lateral proposals as you want... until both sides go into a room and jointly hammer out the details there will be no agreement.
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Re: Lockout

Postby pens#1 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:21 pm

there is a lot of talk about Fehr wanting the Cap to go away, why would he beleive for a moment this would ever happen? The owners are saying they are losing money with a Cap- no Cap would be most would rather not have hockey and would shut down operations.
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Re: Lockout

Postby mnpensfan on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:21 pm

So teams would have to be below $60M by the start of next season? There goes $8-$9M shopping spree that we could have seen.....
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Re: Lockout

Postby mikey287 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:21 pm

no name wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Yeah, I can't imagine we would use the buyout on anyone unless there was a minor league contract that he wanted to dump, but that's extremely unlikely.


Lets see, Tim Thomas, Wade Redding, Scott Gomez will all be availible after this...


Shawn Horcoff and Rick DiPietro I imagine would top the list as well.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:23 pm

pens#1 wrote:there is a lot of talk about Fehr wanting the Cap to go away, why would he beleive for a moment this would ever happen? The owners are saying they are losing money with a Cap- no Cap would be most would rather not have hockey and would shut down operations.


If the union is disolved and there is no CBA, and players win the anittrust suits. then there is no cap, nothng the owners could do to get one back.
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Re: Lockout

Postby mikey287 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:27 pm

Drop dead date for the season is January 11th.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:33 pm

Did people seriously expect the players to take it without trying to counter something?
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:36 pm

Defence21 wrote:If Shero and his support team feel there are some quality players to be had, I could see a minor leaguer or a depth NHL'er bought out for the sake of opening up a contract. Maybe a Ben Lovejoy or Tyler Kennedy, for example. I'm not saying either is a terrible player or either has a bad contract -- but if Shero perceives a situation where better players could be available, this might not be the worst of ideas, allowing for a free agency addition or two post-buyout period.


everyone that fits into your scenario is a free agent after this season anyways, though
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Re: Lockout

Postby columbia on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:41 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Did people seriously expect the players to take it without trying to counter something?
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Re: Lockout

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:56 pm

mikey287 wrote:Drop dead date for the season is January 11th.


It's already "dead to me" :pop:

Spoiler:
Before some poster takes issue with this, it was mostly tongue in cheek
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Re: Lockout

Postby DropEmJayBird on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:57 pm

I figure there would be a counter - the question is whether the counter will be childish or serious.

If it's childish - you can thank Don Fehr for killing this season.
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Re: Lockout

Postby DudeMan2766 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:01 pm

Its still dead to me dammit!!
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Re: Lockout

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:03 pm

DudeMan2766 wrote:Its still dead to me dammit!!


It's dead Jim...
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Re: Lockout

Postby beLIEve on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:19 pm

Once the league said they wouldn't play less than 48 games, there was no way this was getting done prior to mid January. You don't accept an offer when you know there is more time that the league is willing to lose before pulling the plug on the whole thing. You continue to chip away at it until the 11th hour. Thats how negotiating works. Expect a counter proposal and more bickering in the days ahead before it all comes to a head.
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Re: Lockout

Postby DocEmrick on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:19 pm

I'd like to beLIEve that, but not with Fehr spearheading #OpRuinNHL
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Re: Lockout

Postby Defence21 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:31 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Defence21 wrote:If Shero and his support team feel there are some quality players to be had, I could see a minor leaguer or a depth NHL'er bought out for the sake of opening up a contract. Maybe a Ben Lovejoy or Tyler Kennedy, for example. I'm not saying either is a terrible player or either has a bad contract -- but if Shero perceives a situation where better players could be available, this might not be the worst of ideas, allowing for a free agency addition or two post-buyout period.


everyone that fits into your scenario is a free agent after this season anyways, though

I didn't look at contract lengths, to be honest, but I don't think that really matters. I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I recall a conversation recently on LGP about the Penguins being one or two players away from the maximum number of contracts. If that's the case, that leaves little room for trade deadline acquisitions and/or free agent signings after other teams announce thier buyouts. So, if Shero and company feel they can improve the team now AND at the trade deadline on the cheap, they might be willing to buy out a player with limited salary and little time left on the contract.

Put it this way. Buying out Martin means losing a 2nd top-four defenseman before this season without replacing them. Maybe there is a replacement who gets bought out by another team and signed by Pittsburgh -- but that's a really risky move. On the other hand, maybe Shero predicts a decent forward will be bought out and available on the cheap. Shedding a contract might make it more reasonable and justifiable.
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Re: Lockout

Postby bhaw on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:38 pm

Ability for Clubs to retain/allocate Salary and Cap Charges in the context of Player
Trades within specified parameters.


Does anyone know what this means? Is it opening the possibility of trading cap space?
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Re: Lockout

Postby mikey287 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:40 pm

bhaw wrote:
Ability for Clubs to retain/allocate Salary and Cap Charges in the context of Player
Trades within specified parameters.


Does anyone know what this means? Is it opening the possibility of trading cap space?


Yes.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:55 pm

The idea of getting martin at this poin is even more ludicrous if there is a shortened season. Once michalek was gone he was staying anyway, but maybe you are ok with moving him with a full season for the replacement to grow. You definitely dont lean on two rookies going to playoffs after half a season.
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