Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:18 pm

Regardless of that request, if there's a deal that they both can accept, they'll find it. Neither side would be willing to cancel the season on a technicality like that, IMO
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:41 pm

That's what we thought the last time around.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:57 pm

Gaucho wrote:That's what we thought the last time around.


when, 05? how close were they to coming to an agreement before they called the season?
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:10 pm

No, I mean in the middle of December we all thought they were close, but apparently they were not at all.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:18 pm

Well yeah, and maybe they aren't close now either. But it won't be this "don't address it point by point" mandate that will stop them from finding a deal. It will be the overall gap between where they stand
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Re: Lockout

Postby CERV96 on Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:18 pm

Maybe it's just me but why does the PA have to constantly counter offer? What is wrong with just saying OK there are things we like in this deal but we would like to tweek a few details. I firmly believe this will not get done until both sides just come together and create a deal together. Sounds to me like both sides still want the other party to sign their offer.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:23 pm

CERV96 wrote:Maybe it's just me but why does the PA have to constantly counter offer? What is wrong with just saying OK there are things we like in this deal but we would like to tweek a few details. I firmly believe this will not get done until both sides just come together and create a deal together. Sounds to me like both sides still want the other party to sign their offer.


It takes a counter proposal to make a deal together. That way, everything is on paper and they can sit down and say "OK, you have X, we have Z. We're willing to give you Y if..."
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:47 pm

From following this negotiation, and watchin gansd learning a little baout Fehr. When a counter offer was leaked, it basicly says some parts of the CBA needs totally re-written. If it was a since "percentage more" that is a phone call negotiation, but if you need a counter offer its re-writting it.

Fehr will give a responce late Monday... with some movement by the players, but guarentee it, with our a doubt in my mind there will be something in there that makes Bettman almost quit negotiations. This is the way he operates, even if the players want a deal, it won't take til the last second and he squeezed every ounce out of the onwers. "i am not saying this is bad, this is his job...."
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:57 pm

I'm going to say this is bad. We lost half a season and players lost a lot of money. League lost money. What you needed to get from start is a person who cares equally about the game and the players. Fehr couldn't give a crap about the sport or the league. He's just a blood thirsty lawyer. Look at what we've been put through. This is all BS. It has not been a good process to go through and I don't appreciate Fehr's tactics. Should have started a long time ago, a year earlier, and with a more flexible (PA) leader.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Sarcastic on Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:57 pm

If we get free Center Ice from the NHL, it'll be a nice gesture and probably a needed one to bring some of the fans back.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Metalmike on Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:59 pm

We will all know when the lockout is over when Eklund reports high fives all around in the board room between PA and Owners.

Metal Mike, Canada's #1 Penguins Fan.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:41 am

Sarcastic wrote:I'm going to say this is bad. We lost half a season and players lost a lot of money. League lost money. What you needed to get from start is a person who cares equally about the game and the players. Fehr couldn't give a crap about the sport or the league. He's just a blood thirsty lawyer. Look at what we've been put through. This is all BS. It has not been a good process to go through and I don't appreciate Fehr's tactics. Should have started a long time ago, a year earlier, and with a more flexible (PA) leader.


I disagree with you that they need a leader who has a attachment to the sport. Its almost better thay you have a guy who doesn't like the sport. This way that person doesn't make a decision based on hockey but just on the players themselves, all about money.

But i agree the players lost alot of money, and at what point can Fehr say, ok you lost enought and gained enought that it weights out in the players favor. Seems like he will let the players sit and sit until he himself is happy. Not worring about what the players lost wages. Just worring the deal is profitable.

I get the feeling Fehr is going to wait and wait and make an counteroffer that looks like the players gave but guartenteed to cancel the season. He wants the season to end andhe wants to take this to the courts.
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Re: Lockout

Postby interstorm on Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:14 am

Sarcastic wrote:I'm going to say this is bad. We lost half a season and players lost a lot of money. League lost money. What you needed to get from start is a person who cares equally about the game and the players. Fehr couldn't give a crap about the sport or the league. He's just a blood thirsty lawyer. Look at what we've been put through. This is all BS. It has not been a good process to go through and I don't appreciate Fehr's tactics. Should have started a long time ago, a year earlier, and with a more flexible (PA) leader.


It is well documented that the players have been very informed throughout the process. They voted 97% to decertify. The facts on the table yield less to this fehr boogey-man stature and more to the union and him behind a common goal. This junk above is exactly why i reminded some on this board that their opinions are just that (as are mine). So many have held onto statements from fehr (like the removal of the cap) and cry he is bent on league destruction. He is working for one purpose-- to get the players the best deal he can get. I believe the players know the cap is here to stay but fehr, as a negotiator, has to take a hard line approach in order to mirror his opponent. Do you really think the players would keep him as their rep if they didn't believe in him, his approach and his game plan? Look how far he has moved the NHL thus far-- his results clearly are working (that alone should mean something). Again-- i look at the owners and ask why they are willing to make this proposal now and. Not in August (and no, there is no evidence that fehr would have rejected it then...to suggest that is pure speculation and nothing else).
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:59 am

to suggest that is pure speculation and nothing else


IMO Fehr had this all planned out to take it this far... Even if Fehr got this in the beginning he would of thought if we wait longer what else can we get. He didn't sit on his buttocks for over a year befor he got into the ring with the NHL for no reason. I read up on Fehr once he got that job... Its typical Fehr. A big reason why he was hired. He knows what to do and how to do it.

But i don't thnk Fehr is looking for a fair deal.... He wants all he can get. But that is no different from the owners.

And yes i am aware this is only my opinion and speculation.
Last edited by no name on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lockout

Postby interstorm on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:02 am

no name wrote:
to suggest that is pure speculation and nothing else


IMO Fehr had this all planned out to take it this far... Even if Fehr got this in the beginning he would of thought if we wait longer what else can we get. He didn't sit on his buttocks for over a year befor he got into the ring with the NHL for no reason. I read up on Fehr once he got that job... Its typical Fehr. A big reason why he was hired. He knows what to do and how to do it.

And yes i am aware this is only my opinion and speculation.


That's fine and it very well may be true (although it isnt my opinion). I, on the other hand, think the owners held out until now to save paying a half of year salary.

Either way (or even both) stinks for the game.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:24 am

interstorm wrote:
no name wrote:
to suggest that is pure speculation and nothing else


IMO Fehr had this all planned out to take it this far... Even if Fehr got this in the beginning he would of thought if we wait longer what else can we get. He didn't sit on his buttocks for over a year befor he got into the ring with the NHL for no reason. I read up on Fehr once he got that job... Its typical Fehr. A big reason why he was hired. He knows what to do and how to do it.

And yes i am aware this is only my opinion and speculation.


That's fine and it very well may be true (although it isnt my opinion). I, on the other hand, think the owners held out until now to save paying a half of year salary.

Either way (or even both) stinks for the game.



agreed, that it stinks for the game.

I don't see why the owners would wait... If a new favorable CBA was in place for the owners befor the season started it would increase profits (in theory). I am not understand the logic of the owners by not paying for half a season.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:59 am

Still no meeting set. I can't imagine these bozo's wanting to spend New Year's Eve locked up together in a room.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Myriad on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:00 am

Guys, Fehr is only a representive. There's no way he is driving the boat as much as some of you think. If what he was saying wasn't supported by the majority of players, he would not be their rep any longer. He's analogous with Bettman, both only mouthpieces for the groups they represent.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:05 am

No, he's the span of Lucifer!
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:12 am

Myriad wrote:Guys, Fehr is only a representive. There's no way he is driving the boat as much as some of you think. If what he was saying wasn't supported by the majority of players, he would not be their rep any longer. He's analogous with Bettman, both only mouthpieces for the groups they represent.


Fehr has more pull than Bettman since he's representing a group of young, largely uneducated people with limited business experience. But overall, you're right. He's not the alpha and omega here. Losing half of a season is something the owners and players were prepared for - regardless of who speaks at their press conferences.
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Re: Lockout

Postby interstorm on Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:23 am

shmenguin wrote:
Myriad wrote:Guys, Fehr is only a representive. There's no way he is driving the boat as much as some of you think. If what he was saying wasn't supported by the majority of players, he would not be their rep any longer. He's analogous with Bettman, both only mouthpieces for the groups they represent.


Fehr has more pull than Bettman since he's representing a group of young, largely uneducated people with limited business experience. But overall, you're right. He's not the alpha and omega here. Losing half of a season is something the owners and players were prepared for - regardless of who speaks at their press conferences.


Correct. I think the notion of the players as young, dumb jocks isn't quite appropriate either. Yeah...many (and maybe even most) really have no clue- but each has an agent that i am sure they have spoken to in great deal over the last 2 years. There are far more minds than just the 700 or so players there that fehr would have to control (which realistically couldn't happen). Now i do believe that waiting until late to negotiate appears like classic fehr-- but when getting so many people on the same page and ready for a bitter dispute, you can understand why it would take him (fehr) awhile to make his side ready.

...anyway- lets get this thing over with...one way or another.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:11 pm

“Bryzgalov has indeed worn out his welcome in CSKA,” Sport-Express’ Slava Malamud argued. “The move is the club’s, not the goalie’s.”

Bryzgalov ran into some problems with the media during his tenure in the KHL. He reportedly complained that the media was writing filth about him.


http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/30/report-bryzgalov-to-leave-khl-but-why-is-disputed/
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Re: Lockout

Postby PghSkins on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:15 pm

Gaucho wrote:“Bryzgalov has indeed worn out his welcome in CSKA,” Sport-Express’ Slava Malamud argued. “The move is the club’s, not the goalie’s.”

Bryzgalov ran into some problems with the media during his tenure in the KHL. He reportedly complained that the media was writing filth about him.


http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/30/report-bryzgalov-to-leave-khl-but-why-is-disputed/


Too many Russian bear
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:34 pm

Dan Rosen ‏@drosennhl
NHLPA says it will arrive at NHL office for today's meeting b/w 1 and 1:30. Reported expectation is that NHLPA will bring counter proposal.
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Re: Lockout

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:54 pm

Gaucho wrote:Dan Rosen ‏@drosennhl
NHLPA says it will arrive at NHL office for today's meeting b/w 1 and 1:30. Reported expectation is that NHLPA will bring counter proposal.


Is there a website where I can track their transportation?
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