Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:07 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Dan Rosen ‏@drosennhl
NHLPA says it will arrive at NHL office for today's meeting b/w 1 and 1:30. Reported expectation is that NHLPA will bring counter proposal.


Is there a website where I can track their transportation?


That depends on Jagr being among the PA's delegation.
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Re: Lockout

Postby pens_srq on Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:33 pm

offsides wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
NHL has asked players to respond to all issues collectively and doesn't want to have to negotiate item by item. We will see how PA counters.


I already don't like the sound of this.


If this is true, there will be no deal.

Nothing at all here except avoiding the Fehr tactic of negotiating one point, agreeing, then trying to get more on another point. They want the whole thing laid out. What will the NHLPA accept as a deal. On everything they disagree on, they want a complete picture. If NHLPA wants movement on one thing maybe NHL would then expect something else to be changed. That's okay. Just lay it all out. There's too little time left to screw around issue by issue.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:33 pm

Counterproposalwatch.com

This is going to be a joke of a counter by Fehr, guarentee this won't be a resonable offer. The NHL should of given it to them with a season kill date. Other wise you are giving Fehr way to much time to squeeze more out of you.

This looks good for the NHL, PR wise.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:35 pm

They did give a season kill date...
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Re: Lockout

Postby opie22002 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:47 pm

no name wrote:Counterproposalwatch.com

This is going to be a joke of a counter by Fehr, guarentee this won't be a resonable offer. The NHL should of given it to them with a season kill date. Other wise you are giving Fehr way to much time to squeeze more out of you.

This looks good for the NHL, PR wise.


Why does PR even matter at this point?
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Re: Lockout

Postby IMFC on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:01 pm

interstorm wrote:There are far more minds than just the 700 or so players there that fehr would have to control (which realistically couldn't happen). Now i do believe that waiting until late to negotiate appears like classic fehr-- but when getting so many people on the same page and ready for a bitter dispute, you can understand why it would take him (fehr) awhile to make his side ready.


I don't think there are FAR more, but the handful of influential agents certainly are involved.

It's a huge mistake, however, to think that successful people - owners, agent, or players - are smart. Almost totally every owner of a company I've ever dealt with has just been manipulative or lucky, but not really smart. They all blow money on friends, relatives and whims and shave pennies out of dominance/control issues. I've seen them all be fooled by 'consultants' like Fehr who can convince you that they know what they are doing. They never do. In this case I'm considering players as owners of their own 'business' and trusting an outside consultant who has come in will no real understanding of the history, the current forces or personalities involved.

The only thing guaranteed is that Fehr will take full credit for everything good and have something or someone to blame for anything bad. Narcissist personality right down the line.

Bettman on the other hand will always do just enough to keep the paycheck coming. He has more than enough money to do the right thing, but he's too insecure - his ego needs the constant reinforcement of the position.

The players will lose more money this year than they will get back in the length of the contract.
4 or 5 teams will lose the profit from this season.
The cities lose revenue, jobs and taxes.

But everyone is essentially fat and happy, so they feel they have room to hardline it. Stupid, really. But when people are loaded they blow money left and right.
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Re: Lockout

Postby pens_srq on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:09 pm

I find it tragic to watch a union "work" as a system for millionaires but fail so miserably for everyone else.
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Re: Lockout

Postby interstorm on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:20 pm

pens_srq wrote:I find it tragic to watch a union "work" as a system for millionaires but fail so miserably for everyone else.


Who is everyone else? The fringe players...the 3rd/4th line player. At 97% approval to decertify, these guys are behind fehr and thus, one can assume, are accepting what he is trying to get them.

Outside that, who are you talking about...the fans? We're not part of the PA, we don't pay dues. Are they failing us or are they failing our expectations of them?
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Re: Lockout

Postby DrBoni on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:28 pm

interstorm wrote:
pens_srq wrote:I find it tragic to watch a union "work" as a system for millionaires but fail so miserably for everyone else.


Who is everyone else? The fringe players...the 3rd/4th line player. At 97% approval to decertify, these guys are behind fehr and thus, one can assume, are accepting what he is trying to get them.

Outside that, who are you talking about...the fans? We're not part of the PA, we don't pay dues. Are they failing us or are they failing our expectations of them?


I'm fairly certain that he's talking outside of hockey.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:34 pm

DrBoni wrote:
interstorm wrote:
pens_srq wrote:I find it tragic to watch a union "work" as a system for millionaires but fail so miserably for everyone else.


Who is everyone else? The fringe players...the 3rd/4th line player. At 97% approval to decertify, these guys are behind fehr and thus, one can assume, are accepting what he is trying to get them.

Outside that, who are you talking about...the fans? We're not part of the PA, we don't pay dues. Are they failing us or are they failing our expectations of them?


I'm fairly certain that he's talking outside of hockey.


Have a happy new year, good Sir.
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Re: Lockout

Postby no name on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:36 pm

opie22002 wrote:
no name wrote:Counterproposalwatch.com

This is going to be a joke of a counter by Fehr, guarentee this won't be a resonable offer. The NHL should of given it to them with a season kill date. Other wise you are giving Fehr way to much time to squeeze more out of you.

This looks good for the NHL, PR wise.


Why does PR even matter at this point?



In the NHL lawsuit i read you have to be able to show you bargained in good faith. Also the NHLPA antitrust suit it has to bee clear the owners just didn't let you sit for no reason.
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Re: Lockout

Postby newarenanow on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:40 pm

I'm in the meeting now guys. I will post updates as necessary.
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Re: Lockout

Postby DrBoni on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:42 pm

Gaucho wrote:
DrBoni wrote:
interstorm wrote:
pens_srq wrote:I find it tragic to watch a union "work" as a system for millionaires but fail so miserably for everyone else.


Who is everyone else? The fringe players...the 3rd/4th line player. At 97% approval to decertify, these guys are behind fehr and thus, one can assume, are accepting what he is trying to get them.

Outside that, who are you talking about...the fans? We're not part of the PA, we don't pay dues. Are they failing us or are they failing our expectations of them?


I'm fairly certain that he's talking outside of hockey.


Have a happy new year, good Sir.


You too, my German Cowboy. I still pop in every now and then :)
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Re: Lockout

Postby Grunthy on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:00 pm

Yeah Donald fehr is an idiot. The nhlpa wants future relocation and expansion fees to be part of hrr. Forget them.
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Re: Lockout

Postby skullman80 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:02 pm

Lol if the nhlpa asks for that.
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Re: Lockout

Postby bhaw on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:05 pm

If that's true, this is why the owners keep "storming out" of the negotiations. Both sides have agreed in previous proposals to keep the HRR calculation the same. Now they want to go back to a basic principal and rewrite it. This is not how you move negotiations forward. This is how you stall (staal?) them. You keep changing previously agreed on principals to writing a proposal.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:07 pm

Where are you people getting these things?
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Re: Lockout

Postby Grunthy on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:07 pm

bhaw wrote:If that's true, this is why the owners keep "storming out" of the negotiations. Both sides have agreed in previous proposals to keep the HRR calculation the same. Now they want to go back to a basic principal and rewrite it. This is not how you move negotiations forward. This is how you stall (staal?) them. You keep changing previously agreed on principals to writing a proposal.



It is negotiating in bad faith.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Grunthy on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:08 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Where are you people getting these things?



Travis Yost.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:09 pm

Who?
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:10 pm

The have yet to even meet, so it's probably BS. Shocking.
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Re: Lockout

Postby bhaw on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:11 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Who?


Multiple places on Twitter. I've seen it posted a few times.

I think everyone also said "if true."
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:15 pm

Players just got there. Not surprising considering how insane NYC is on NYE.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Gaucho on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:19 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Players just got there. Not surprising considering how insane NYC is on NYE.


Well, these bums get no sympathy from me.
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Re: Lockout

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:21 pm

Gaucho wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Players just got there. Not surprising considering how insane NYC is on NYE.


Well, these bums get no sympathy from me.


It's Donald Fehr's fault there's so many people in NYC on NYE.
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