Lockout

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Re: Lockout

Postby RPKJr429 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:49 pm

Lol @ Parros, I didn't know Sean William Scott played for the blues.
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Re: Lockout

Postby TheHammer24 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:50 pm

I'm extremely confused.

1) Why would compliance buyouts/lower cap hurt the Penguins any more than it would hurt the Penguins more than other teams? Is the thought that other teams big-money contracts are worth buying out and ours are not? Last I checked we had a handful of cap space.

2) I thought contracts would roll back at a rate similar to the decreased cap? Those players would give their salaries to escrow but be compensated through the make-whole provisions. If so, how would the Penguins be in that bad of shape?
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Re: Lockout

Postby America on Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:52 pm

nocera wrote:
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Person wasn't being negative, just noting there seems to be a runaway train of optimism that may be a little excessive. Food for thought.

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Re: Lockout

Postby Idoit40fans on Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:52 pm

The idea is that while the pens have big contracts, thy dont have any that are that bad. Theyd be in fine shape if they bought out martin and kunitz.
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Re: Lockout

Postby America on Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:52 pm

I just want hockey :(
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Re: Lockout

Postby RPKJr429 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:04 pm

What about Kunitz's contract is unfavorable? Is 3.725 mil really that terrible when he's an effective hitter and scorer on either of the top lines?
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Re: Lockout

Postby Fire0nice228 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:11 pm

RPKJr429 wrote:What about Kunitz's contract is unfavorable? Is 3.725 mil really that terrible when he's an effective hitter and scorer on either of the top lines?


Yeah I'm not following either, I mean I guess he's getting a little older but hes solid.
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Re: Lockout

Postby nocera on Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:14 pm

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Told that NHL finally moved off $60 M year 2 cap, however, still not enough for players..
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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:19 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:I'm extremely confused.

1) Why would compliance buyouts/lower cap hurt the Penguins any more than it would hurt the Penguins more than other teams? Is the thought that other teams big-money contracts are worth buying out and ours are not? Last I checked we had a handful of cap space.

2) I thought contracts would roll back at a rate similar to the decreased cap? Those players would give their salaries to escrow but be compensated through the make-whole provisions. If so, how would the Penguins be in that bad of shape?


There are no rollbacks. Contracts stay as they are.

The pens will have about 23 million tied up in 3 forwards - and none of them will be buyout candidates. That's probably a bit unusual around the league.
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Re: Lockout

Postby It'sagreatdayforhockey! on Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:23 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:I'm extremely confused.

1) Why would compliance buyouts/lower cap hurt the Penguins any more than it would hurt the Penguins more than other teams? Is the thought that other teams big-money contracts are worth buying out and ours are not? Last I checked we had a handful of cap space.

2) I thought contracts would roll back at a rate similar to the decreased cap? Those players would give their salaries to escrow but be compensated through the make-whole provisions. If so, how would the Penguins be in that bad of shape?



The problem for the pens is that they are one of a handful of teams that will be up near the theoretical cap ($55mil with a $60ish mil cap next season) over the next couple years with a large number of roster openings (5-8 open roster spots next season) [see http://www.capgeek.com/penguins/]. Combine that with the fact that the majority of the other teams near the cap are able to do so while still bringing in larger profits than the pens and therefore able to better afford player buyouts [see http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/#p ... asc_search:]. With that you have a 2 part system that negatively effects the pens more than most other contending teams in the next few years. If you want to look at a team that may be in the worst position however, take a look at TB's roster structure next season and operating costs.
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Re: Lockout

Postby TheHammer24 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:31 pm

No rollbacks? Then what's escrow and make-whole?
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Re: Lockout

Postby nocera on Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:32 pm

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Players willing to keep cap floor at $44 M for Year 2 cap even with higher upper limit


I'm bored.
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Re: Lockout

Postby heshootsandscores on Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:34 pm

ulf wrote:I'm starting to get my hopes up and I know that's a terrible idea.



Me too...I am on a 6 week medical leave from work, and it would be heavenly to have hockey back...a dream come true!
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Re: Lockout

Postby Idoit40fans on Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:59 pm

RPKJr429 wrote:What about Kunitz's contract is unfavorable? Is 3.725 mil really that terrible when he's an effective hitter and scorer on either of the top lines?


Who said it was unfavorable?
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Re: Lockout

Postby Lt. Dish on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:01 pm

Tim Thomasen wrote:Pierre LeBrun‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Told this has potential to be marathon session tonight... We shall see


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Re: Lockout

Postby shmenguin on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:01 pm

Having to ditch Kunitz would be a slap in the face for this club - and an indicator that the owners screwed these negotiations up.
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Re: Lockout

Postby pressure=9Pa on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:08 pm

Kunitz isn't a horrible value at $3.7MM, but if you look for places to cut I would start here. If he were injured going into the playoffs, the Pens would suffer. However, I think players of his caliber are available at the deadline as rentals, or can be found cheaper. I'm not trying to bash CK, but if someone has to be cut I think that's where I'd start.

I'd also say the fact that I think CK has the worst contract on the Pens is one heck of a testament to how good of a job GMRS has done.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Kovy27 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:17 pm

Michael Russo ‏@Russostrib
BREAKING #mnwild news: Mikael Granlund pulled from #Aeros lineup after warmups;Wild doesn't want to risk injury in case #nhl camp on horizon

David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod
NHL moves off $60M on Yr2 cap, goes to $62.5M. Unsure if NHLPA has moved off $65M... Meanwhile, PA reiterates to members there's no deal yet
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Re: Lockout

Postby Kovy27 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:23 pm

pressure=9Pa wrote:Kunitz isn't a horrible value at $3.7MM, but if you look for places to cut I would start here. If he were injured going into the playoffs, the Pens would suffer. However, I think players of his caliber are available at the deadline as rentals, or can be found cheaper. I'm not trying to bash CK, but if someone has to be cut I think that's where I'd start.

I'd also say the fact that I think CK has the worst contract on the Pens is one heck of a testament to how good of a job GMRS has done.



They are not going to ditch Kunitz at the contract he has. At some point, Tangradi, Bennett, etc are going to have to step up. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Pens trade Kris Letang in the future. With Morrow and Despres coming up, it could be a luxury they could use to get another winger.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Fire0nice228 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:24 pm

It'sagreatdayforhockey! wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:I'm extremely confused.

1) Why would compliance buyouts/lower cap hurt the Penguins any more than it would hurt the Penguins more than other teams? Is the thought that other teams big-money contracts are worth buying out and ours are not? Last I checked we had a handful of cap space.

2) I thought contracts would roll back at a rate similar to the decreased cap? Those players would give their salaries to escrow but be compensated through the make-whole provisions. If so, how would the Penguins be in that bad of shape?



The problem for the pens is that they are one of a handful of teams that will be up near the theoretical cap ($55mil with a $60ish mil cap next season) over the next couple years with a large number of roster openings (5-8 open roster spots next season) [see http://www.capgeek.com/penguins/]. Combine that with the fact that the majority of the other teams near the cap are able to do so while still bringing in larger profits than the pens and therefore able to better afford player buyouts [see http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/#p ... asc_search:]. With that you have a 2 part system that negatively effects the pens more than most other contending teams in the next few years. If you want to look at a team that may be in the worst position however, take a look at TB's roster structure next season and operating costs.


Nice post :thumb:

And IMO there is no reason for the Pens to be looking at buying out Kunitz. I dont know who you can get for cheaper that would be as effective as Kunitz is. 25 goals and creates a lot of space for whichever world class center he plays with. I mean the Flyers just signed Voracek for 4.25 , Wayne Simmonds for 3.9, I mean Troy Brouwer, he sucks, and he makes 3.6 million.
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Re: Lockout

Postby Kovy27 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:30 pm

Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl
Craig Adams has arrived at NHLPA hotel to join the negotiations. #TSN
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Re: Lockout

Postby Lt. Dish on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:38 pm

Kovy27 wrote:Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl
Craig Adams has arrived at NHLPA hotel to join the negotiations. #TSN


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Re: Lockout

Postby joopen on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:39 pm

Kovy27 wrote:Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl
Craig Adams has arrived at NHLPA hotel to join the negotiations. #TSN

The question is when will Greg Adams arrive?
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Re: Lockout

Postby FreeCandy44 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:42 pm

Whammy
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Re: Lockout

Postby Idoit40fans on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:48 pm

Fire0nice228 wrote:
It'sagreatdayforhockey! wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:I'm extremely confused.

1) Why would compliance buyouts/lower cap hurt the Penguins any more than it would hurt the Penguins more than other teams? Is the thought that other teams big-money contracts are worth buying out and ours are not? Last I checked we had a handful of cap space.

2) I thought contracts would roll back at a rate similar to the decreased cap? Those players would give their salaries to escrow but be compensated through the make-whole provisions. If so, how would the Penguins be in that bad of shape?



The problem for the pens is that they are one of a handful of teams that will be up near the theoretical cap ($55mil with a $60ish mil cap next season) over the next couple years with a large number of roster openings (5-8 open roster spots next season) [see http://www.capgeek.com/penguins/]. Combine that with the fact that the majority of the other teams near the cap are able to do so while still bringing in larger profits than the pens and therefore able to better afford player buyouts [see http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/#p ... asc_search:]. With that you have a 2 part system that negatively effects the pens more than most other contending teams in the next few years. If you want to look at a team that may be in the worst position however, take a look at TB's roster structure next season and operating costs.


Nice post :thumb:

And IMO there is no reason for the Pens to be looking at buying out Kunitz. I dont know who you can get for cheaper that would be as effective as Kunitz is. 25 goals and creates a lot of space for whichever world class center he plays with. I mean the Flyers just signed Voracek for 4.25 , Wayne Simmonds for 3.9, I mean Troy Brouwer, he sucks, and he makes 3.6 million.

It wouldnt be a hockey move, it would be a cap compliance move. It doesn matter what value his contract brings, it matters what value it brings relative to the more expensive ones. More expensive: fleury, crosby, malkin, neal, orpik, martin. Including kunitz, which 2 of those would be missed the least?

Also, for simmonds id trade kunitz+
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