Pens' track record in luring free agents

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Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby ivand87 on Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:55 pm

The only time this team has ever made a splash was after the lockout when we got Gonchar, Leclair and Palffy during the offseason of 2005 after the lockout, this after getting Recchi the offseason before that before the lockout actually happened. Obviously only Gonchar and Recchi made significant contributions to the team. The only guy you can call a big-time player from that group is probably Gonchar.

Aside from that, the Pens consistently watch as the rest of the NHL signs all the big name free agents. And now once again, the Flyers and Rangers have made big moves to significantly improve their teams. I'm so sick of it. Losing out on Parise sucked. Clearly we never had a chance because Parise never really considered the Pens, probably because we're a division rival of the Devils and he didn't want to screw Lou over, and also because he wanted to play with Suter. Whatever. That was tough to take.

Suter would have been a great addition to our team. If we were willing to pay him anywhere near $7 million, I wonder if the Pens ever considered going after Weber. He's even better than Suter - clearly a top 5 Dman in this league if not the best, period - and at that price, it might even have come as a better value. He has size, grit, he's intimidating, scores plenty of goals, and obviously can play up to 30 minutes a night in all situations. With him, Letang, Crosby, Malkin and Neal you're looking at one of the greatest PP units in NHL history.

But instead, after losing out on Parise, we gotta see him go to Philly. I have this sick feeling in my stomach that the Preds won't match. And today, the Rangers get Nash for next to nothing. They lost Dubinsky and Anisimov. I've had it. If that was the asking price for Nash, we could have had him for Dupuis, Kennedy, a first rounder and a Dman prospect.

We better not lose out on Doan else this offseason will end up being 10 times worse than last year's, and I thought last year's sucked.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring offseason free agents

Postby bhaw on Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:01 pm

Is this real life?

Please list all the players we missed out on so someone can even begin to formulate a response that isn't generic and condescending, because that is what this invites right now. It's so full of generalities and baseless claims.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby Mongoose87 on Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:01 pm

Do you remember two years ago when we grabbed two guys that were supposedly the pick of the litter on defense? Cause I sure do.

Also, you realize the players have to agree to come here, right? There's no kidnapping.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby JoseCuervo on Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:03 pm

You better prepare yourself for when doan re-signs with phoenix.

Spoiler:
I'll happily drive you to the nearest bridge.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:05 pm

Mongoose87 wrote:Do you remember two years ago when we grabbed two guys that were supposedly the pick of the litter on defense? Cause I sure do.

Also, you realize the players have to agree to come here, right? There's no kidnapping.


Doesnt count now cause they fooled us into thinking they were good.

Ok, but seriously folks, I dont think the problem is that FA's dont come here. We arent/cant (cap wise) just throw money at anyone and besides the point the entire "Pens are a destination" was created by insane fans anyways who just thought everyone was dying to come here.

We do ok all things considered in FA. But maybe nobody wants to play here, I dont know but I havent see any real evidence of that yet. Its not like we are losing on FA to these worse deals.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby bhaw on Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:13 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Mongoose87 wrote:Do you remember two years ago when we grabbed two guys that were supposedly the pick of the litter on defense? Cause I sure do.

Also, you realize the players have to agree to come here, right? There's no kidnapping.


Doesnt count now cause they fooled us into thinking they were good.

Ok, but seriously folks, I dont think the problem is that FA's dont come here. We arent/cant (cap wise) just throw money at anyone and besides the point the entire "Pens are a destination" was created by insane fans anyways who just thought everyone was dying to come here.

We do ok all things considered in FA. But maybe nobody wants to play here, I dont know but I havent see any real evidence of that yet. Its not like we are losing on FA to these worse deals.


I think your last point is spot on... the players who we want to stay here also want to stay here. James Neal took a contract that I think everyone agrees is SIGNIFICANTLY below market to stay here. Niskanen wanted to stay here. Sidney Crosby just signed his life to the Pens. Malkin will likely follow suit, assuming the new CBA allows it. Orpik, before he became one of the players to hate du jour, took a friendly contract to stay. Because of the star power we have already invested in (2 of easily the top 5 players in the NHL), we can't just throw a 12-15 year contract at these other guys. We would have too many guys eating up WAY too much cap room into their late 30s. Would look good for 5 years, ok for another 3-5, then OMG how did we get in this mess for the remainder. The concerns above would make sense if we didn't have 2 of the top talents in the NHL already here. Minnesota could bend over to any contract demands by Parise because they only have Koivu to pay right now.

Do we not think Philly will have some tough choices to make in the next 2-3 years if Weber ends up with them? Of course they will.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby Streaks House on Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:20 pm

Simmonds and Hartnell next summer and Giroux, Read, Brayden Schenn, and Couturier the following year.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby bhaw on Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:23 pm

Streaks House wrote:Simmonds and Hartnell next summer and Giroux, Read, Brayden Schenn, and Couturier the following year.


Keep Simmonds, Giroux, and Schenn.

Dump Hartnell and Read.

Couturier (sp?) won't be a factor because his skills don't translate into money, and I doubt he continues to impress like he did this year.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby ivand87 on Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:26 pm

Listen I know it's a generalization. The truth is I'm not really disappointed in the Pens. My point is just about how frustrating it is to go through these periods of free agency each and every offseason without the Pens landing a big fish, ever. (Unless you think Paul Martin and Michalek were big fish, and obviously they weren't).

Unless Shero can find another Neal out there for the right price at the deadline, there is no way Crosby will have that elite winger any time soon. Neal can play with Sid, sure, but where does that leave Geno? Both of them deserve to have a player of that caliber playing alongside them, so the need remains. And that makes our team impossible to play against. Doan would be nice but I am not in any way expecting him to sign with the Pens. I just hope the Pens have a very good offer for him and can convince him to come here. Will I be disappointed if he doesn't sign? Sure. But surprised? Probably not. If he stays in Phoenix it'll be alright, but if he signs with a rival I'll be pissed again.

We've also lost Sully here. Let's not forget that. We gotta replace him. And there is clearly a need for a good defenseman too. I'm not thrilled about losing Michalek for draft picks.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby bhaw on Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:32 pm

What big fish then? Hossa, Parise... what other wingers did we miss out on in free agency?

If Martin and Michalek weren't big fish, neither is Doan.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby bhaw on Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:34 pm

Also remember, this is the first time we've even had cap room. If Hossa signed with Pittsburgh, Shero was going to have to get REAL creative to round out the team.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:04 am

I honestly think most peoples issue with no free agents coming here is that everyone unreasonably expected us to be this destination.

I just read about for months on here. We are such the model franchise, Sidney Crosby blah blah blah. As my good friend Giovanni Ribissi (sp) once said: "Aint no honor in the after school job at Mickey D's. Honors in the dollar kid".

The reality is 99% of players dont give a crap. They want the most money balanced out with a decent situation. They may take less to say not be stuck in Columbus but all things being close to equal there are 25 other teams out there that are just as attractive to play at then here, and probably 18 of them have more cap room than us.

Maybe we got a good deal on James Neal because he knows he is not that great without Malkin, maybe the Pens have this horrid rep throughout the league but once people play here its not so bad, maybe its nothing other than Neal got market value and so did people who signed elsewhere.

The bottom line is the NY Rangers and Philthy got (or may get) pretty significantly better by adding expensive pieces, but ones they truly needed - that were weaknesses last year and the Pens are not better and you can argue are worse.

I more "uh oh" about our division chances and playoff chances right now than anything else.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby bhaw on Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:11 am

Oh, I totally agree that people overestimate Pittsburgh's allure. Very few players care about where they play much beyond what you already pointed out.

I, however, am not "uh oh" until we see what team takes the ice and how they do to start the season. I'd imagine when Carters and Richards were shipped out, Philly fans were pretty "uh oh" about their chances as well. I also would say that even if we signed Weber and Parise in the off season, if we go in with the same plan and execution that bounced us from the playoffs, it won't matter who's on the team.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby Senka on Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:25 am

Not just your post but many state we can be the best PP unit; look at that talent!? Talent alone doesn't make a good PP unit. It takes more than just talent for a great unit. I do agree the talent would be stupid good but it doesn't always mean results. #yeo
Last edited by Senka on Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby Senka on Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:29 am

I think pittsburgh is a place you want to come or plan to never come to. I doubt many players are on the fence about it. Good hockey atmosphere and top talent would be appealing. Hating Crosby or wanting to be a star would turn you off. Speaking of missing out on accusations, wonder how Esposito is doing. That was a terrible move for Hossa, huh?
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby k0la on Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:41 am

Oslo is considered a nice beautiful city with lots of parks and trees and a new opera house, a great destination, but yet Vålerenga can't seem to attract any great UFA's. Every year I hope, but all they ever get is AHL scrums, except that lockout year when we had Hartnell, wake up Knutsen!
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:52 am

Can't people fathom that sometimes players have specific reasons for wanting to go to one or two specific teams and just because the Penguins were not one of those teams doesn't mean Pittsburgh is a team they're avoiding like the plague. This off-season has been a very fickle one. Parise and Suter had specific wants and needs. Shero didn't put in an offer sheet for Weber...neither did the other 28 teams in the league.

Shero didn't trade for Nash and you're fet up? There are again, 28 other teams that didn't trade for him. Teams with far more cap space, teams that need to reach the cap floor and teams with better prospects than Erixon. Nash was not a cut and dry situation. He carried a VERY high cap hit...and VERY high considering his production. The Rangers were offensively anemic, they needed Nash. Gaborik and Richards combined for 142 pts, 76 and 66 respectively...take a look at our stats, I shouldn't have to list them...also realize Sid wasn't there for a full season.

Shero has no reason to go after Nash and his price-tag; he can fill that whole for far less money. Also, if that's all it took the Rangers to get Nash, imagine how horrible the other offers were...obviously there was a reason nobody else got him.

Get ready, we may totally lose out on Doan. There's still a very good chance he winds up in Phoenix and if he doens't, he has stated very specific reasons for preferring certain teams. Some are due to the locations of his/his wife's families.

Shero has some work to do, but realize he only has a few holes to fill and doesn't need to break the bank to fix those holes. Everyone needs to chill the eff out. Truthfully, I hope we don't get Doan if it means Shero can trade for a guy like Glencross. If he can trade for a player who costs half of what Doan makes and is the right fit for this team, then I'm all for it.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby beLIEve on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:21 am

I said it in another thread a week or so ago, but it applies here as well. Please tell me all the teams that has won a cup in the last 5 years (hell, can probably even go 7 years) by attracting any of the big name free agents available in the few years prior.

2012 - LA
2011 - Boston
2010 - Chicago
2009 - Pittsburgh
2008 - Detroit

At the time, I said none. I was then corrected that Chicago did sign Hossa prior to winning their cup (though it could be argued that Gaborik was the bigger name that year).

So out of all of the crazy money thrown at free agents the last 5 years, you have 1 big name/big money signing that resulted in a cup. 1.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:23 am

bhaw wrote:Oh, I totally agree that people overestimate Pittsburgh's allure. Very few players care about where they play much beyond what you already pointed out.

I, however, am not "uh oh" until we see what team takes the ice and how they do to start the season. I'd imagine when Carters and Richards were shipped out, Philly fans were pretty "uh oh" about their chances as well. I also would say that even if we signed Weber and Parise in the off season, if we go in with the same plan and execution that bounced us from the playoffs, it won't matter who's on the team.


I mean sure but what I am saying is the horn sounded after a playoff beat down and since then we lost our 2nd line LW, our 3rd Center, and the only d-men whose play in his own end/pk was even pushing average and replaced them with nobody, a lesser talent and a rookie. FA has a lot to do with why (even if I am not blaming Shero which I am not).

I just dont see how we cant be a little frightened going into the season right now. Even if Despres lives up to expectations we didnt do anything else to improve the team.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby penny lane on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:43 am

Of penguin FA's how many has GM Ray lost that he wanted... I'd say only Hossa. Staal forced a trade that yielded 2 players who could be long term penguins.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:51 am

beLIEve wrote:I said it in another thread a week or so ago, but it applies here as well. Please tell me all the teams that has won a cup in the last 5 years (hell, can probably even go 7 years) by attracting any of the big name free agents available in the few years prior.

2012 - LA
2011 - Boston
2010 - Chicago
2009 - Pittsburgh
2008 - Detroit

At the time, I said none. I was then corrected that Chicago did sign Hossa prior to winning their cup (though it could be argued that Gaborik was the bigger name that year).

So out of all of the crazy money thrown at free agents the last 5 years, you have 1 big name/big money signing that resulted in a cup. 1.


It can't be argued that Gaborik was a bigger name. More offensively gifted, less durable. Detroit had just signed Rafalski and had recently brought back Osgood...and Hasek. The Blackhawks had just added Brian Campbell as well, and the lesser Madden. LA added a big name in Gagne, although he didn't contribute in the postseason.

Hard to argue that Rafalski, Hossa, Campbell weren't significant contributors on those teams.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby Penspal on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:56 am

ivand87 wrote: The only guy you can call a big-time player from that group is probably Gonchar.


While I agree with you on some fronts, your "uncertainty" of how good Gonchar was needs correction. I believe you have simply forgotten how good Gonchar was for the Pens when he found his game. Not the Gonchar in the first seaons, or in his last game as a Penguin (letting Habs skate by him untouched), but when Gonchar quarterbacked the Pens to a Stanley Cup! Sergei will be in the Hall of Fame, and was a bigtime free agent signing.

It sucks that the Pens cannot sign "bigtime" free agents this year (and in some past). It sucks worse that a divisional rival in the Rags got Nash. Did the Rangers get better with Nash, well that's debatable. He is not the defensive player that the Rangers/Torts like, and they gave up a good one in Dubinsky and really good "D" prospect. Jury is out on that one.

What rots my gut is the Flyers getting Weber (likely, Preds can still match). I have no doubt Weber will vastly improve an already good Flyers team. I'm not sure the Pens could have gotten him at that kind of money. However, it doesn't even appear that they even tried....

BUT, rather than wallow in pity and frustration, it is times likes this when all LGP'ers with any spine should just be saying.... In Shero we TRUST!
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby darkstar57 on Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:07 am

I usually don't do the break a person post into multiple posts but

ivand87 wrote:Aside from that, the Pens consistently watch as the rest of the NHL signs all the big name free agents. And now once again, the Flyers and Rangers have made big moves to significantly improve their teams. I'm so sick of it. Losing out on Parise sucked. Clearly we never had a chance because Parise never really considered the Pens, probably because we're a division rival of the Devils and he didn't want to screw Lou over, and also because he wanted to play with Suter. Whatever. That was tough to take.


What does being a division rival have to do with anything? Players don't see rivalary the same as we do, to them they are just teams. I always thought (even though i hoped we would) were a long shot to sign Parise, i figure he was going ot the wild, det or resign with the devils.

ivand87 wrote:Suter would have been a great addition to our team. If we were willing to pay him anywhere near $7 million, I wonder if the Pens ever considered going after Weber. He's even better than Suter - clearly a top 5 Dman in this league if not the best, period - and at that price, it might even have come as a better value. He has size, grit, he's intimidating, scores plenty of goals, and obviously can play up to 30 minutes a night in all situations. With him, Letang, Crosby, Malkin and Neal you're looking at one of the greatest PP units in NHL history.


First I don't think we ever had a chance with Suter he was either going to play in Det or where ever parise ended up, not sure you can say we lost out on a player we never had a chance to sign, sure Shero has to make an offer i think soemthing like 20 teams made offers to suter.
Second, it would have taken significant assets to get weber out of Nashville with a trade and based on the report of the offer nashville reject from the flyers. Financially i don't think the pens could have offered a mega offer sheet to weber witha posion pill because we have to pay crosby a ton of money starting next year. Malkin is going to get resigned and who knows what the CBA will do about signing bonus, the pens could have ended up paying something like 50 million up front for 3 players, while we do well, that is a tough financial hit to take.[/quote]

ivand87 wrote:But instead, after losing out on Parise, we gotta see him go to Philly. I have this sick feeling in my stomach that the Preds won't match. And today, the Rangers get Nash for next to nothing. They lost Dubinsky and Anisimov. I've had it. If that was the asking price for Nash, we could have had him for Dupuis, Kennedy, a first rounder and a Dman prospect.


First of all your trade idea for nash is a laugh at best, Dupuisis a solid player for us and had a good offensive year, but he is getting older, kennedy is a joke. It would have taken a player like Sutter and Dupius and picks to get nash, i would rather have sutter. offense was not our problem last year.

ivand87 wrote:We better not lose out on Doan else this offseason will end up being 10 times worse than last year's, and I thought last year's sucked.


Doan has made it clear he wants to stay in PHX, and while i think he would be a great addition to this team, there are a ton of other teams out there who are just as attractive as us.

Seriosuly dude in the words of Michele tanner from full house, "Take a chill pill"
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby newarenanow on Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:53 am

Meh. To me, we already internally have our "big fish". No other team out there has a Sidney Crosby or a Geno Malkin.

Some teams lose their "big fish" players as they sign elsewhere. Not the Pens. We actually keep them at a bargain price for what they'd be worth on the market.

A lot of Big Fish like to be the Big FIsh on their teams, and make the most money. That is not happening here in Pgh.

We are blessed to be able to have the player we have, and all signs are pointing to them spending their entire career here.

Sometimes I think "why can't we be the ones to sign these guys", then I remind myself that we already do have them, they take up a decent amount of cap space, but leave enough to build a strong team, and unless the other "big fish" want to take a discount or a role where they are not "the man", then they aren't coming here.

We lucked out with a ping pong ball that will have us set for years to come, one that 29 other teams would have loved to have.

And the Pens aren't the only team in the NHL.
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Re: Pens' track record in luring free agents

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:43 am

First of all it's July 24th, meaning there are like 8 or 9 weeks until camp opens.

Secondly, after reviewing the UFA tracker, the only signing of the entire July I wish the Pens would have made was Latendresse for 1.2 mil + incentives. The rest were for way way way too much term/money.
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