Mario/Zubov Thing

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Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby Godric on Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:00 pm

Can someone break this down for me?

I've heard a lot but I don't know whats true
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby KG on Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:07 pm

From what I remember Mario basically got him out because he wanted a power play point man to shoot more. Zubie was a pass first guy. Enter Kevin Hatcher. One of the worst trades in recent history.
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby Froggy on Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:15 pm

KG wrote:From what I remember Mario basically got him out because he wanted a power play point man to shoot more. Zubie was a pass first guy. Enter Kevin Hatcher. One of the worst trades in recent history.

that was like 15 years ago. are we still calling that recent?


but yes... awful trade
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby FallenHero96 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:29 pm

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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby mikey287 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:30 pm

Basically, Lemieux orchestrated the deal and Patrick just made it happen. The trade took about 30 seconds to get through because the Stars were so eager to do it. The thought was that Zubov wouldn't shoot on the power play, sometimes carried the puck too much down the rink, and didn't seem to set up Lemieux as well on the power play for one timer goals. The Pens thought they were getting a better defensive player, a more physical player, a better defensive player (relatively speaking) and a leader. It didn't really work out that well for us.
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby Tico Rick on Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:55 pm

The Pens got the wrong Hatcher.
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby Gaucho on Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:11 pm

It was a sad day.
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby Steve on Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:12 pm

I always wondered if it (the Mario orchestrating the trade) was just an urban legend that took off...

This trade still annoys me. Living here in Caps country, we used to make fun of Hatcher when he was with the Caps. (of course, we also made fun of Larry Murphy, but that one worked out). I was in disbelief when I heard we traded Zubov for Hatcher. I remember CP saying the Pens wanted a "warrior", after the trade was done. I was at the Nedved 4 OT game in Landover. Zubov was on the ice every other shift, it seemed - playing like a warrior, less than a month before CP made that comment.

While we're on the subject of Zuby - have the pens ever had a better skater? (other than Coffey of course). I'm guessing they have, but the list is probably small - it was a treat watching him fly around the ice in person.
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby KG on Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:51 pm

To make matters worse we traded Hatcher for the immortal Peter Popovic on the opening night of the season. The beginning of the financial crisis!

Zubov would have eventually been traded because of financial reasons. But that was a horrible hockey trade....Mario too much power...
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:04 pm

There were a ton of rumors at the time including Zubov wouldnt play if had even a bump or bruise (hence the warrior quote above I guess) and that Mario despised him for that and his passive play. I would be willing to bet up to about 99% that it was Mario from everything reported.

That being said, unless Mario forced CP to get Hatcher I dont understand these trades. Like when Litlefield traded A Ram. Sure you were forced to do it and couldnt get 100% value, but are you telling me that is ALL you could get. Not even a 1st round pick, a top prospect, 2 decent players for one of the better players in the game (both Zubov and Ramirez).

It turned out ok for us 10 years later but in those 10 months Patrick traded away what would have been an insane 2nd line for years and one of the best dmen of our era:

Nedved Francis Jagr
Naslund Smolinski Murray
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby mikey287 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:50 pm

Steve wrote:I was at the Nedved 4 OT game in Landover. Zubov was on the ice every other shift, it seemed - playing like a warrior, less than a month before CP made that comment.


Not bad for a noted between-period smoker!

And yes, Mario was behind the trade. When Patrick proposed it, it was accepted immediately (by Bob Gainey?). Everyone knew at the time it was wrong and history proves that it was.
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby penny lane on Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:55 am

IF this is true; how does Mario control himself with the pens current power play? ;)
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby mac5155 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:10 am

But it did allow me to yell "HIT HIM WITH YOUR PURSE KEVIN" every time he went near an opposing player. I'll call it a push.

Plus, number 56? Come on.
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby sil on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:11 am

mikey287 wrote:
Steve wrote:I was at the Nedved 4 OT game in Landover. Zubov was on the ice every other shift, it seemed - playing like a warrior, less than a month before CP made that comment.


Not bad for a noted between-period smoker!

And yes, Mario was behind the trade. When Patrick proposed it, it was accepted immediately (by Bob Gainey?). Everyone knew at the time it was wrong and history proves that it was.


I was still pretty young then (just turned 13), but I clearly remember hearing of that trade and thinking Zubov was one of those names I heard ALL THE TIME on the TV when I watched the pens. My immediate reaction was to just assume Hatcher was as good of a player, which reminds me of how nice it is to be young and naive.
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby mac5155 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:18 am

It worked out for Mario :pop:
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby steelhammer on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:26 am

mikey287 wrote:
Steve wrote:I was at the Nedved 4 OT game in Landover. Zubov was on the ice every other shift, it seemed - playing like a warrior, less than a month before CP made that comment.


Not bad for a noted between-period smoker!


Sorry for going off-topic, but any chance you could list some of the more prominent smokers (known and or strongly suspected of) in modern league history? Just curious.
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby Rylan on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:27 am

Didn't Lemieux smoke?
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby columbia on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:46 am

Rylan wrote:Didn't Lemieux smoke?


He did.
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby Dickie Dunn on Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:19 am

steelhammer wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
Steve wrote:I was at the Nedved 4 OT game in Landover. Zubov was on the ice every other shift, it seemed - playing like a warrior, less than a month before CP made that comment.


Not bad for a noted between-period smoker!


Sorry for going off-topic, but any chance you could list some of the more prominent smokers (known and or strongly suspected of) in modern league history? Just curious.


Al Iafrate used to light his cigarettes with a blow torch. I remember hearing a story (can't remember the team it was about), but between periods you couldn't see the whiteboard in the locker room because the room was so filled with smoke.

But as this article conveys, http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/adrian_dater/02/29/players.smoking.cigarettes.nhl.hockey/index.html, back in the day pretty much everyone smoked, no matter how prominent the player.
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby shmenguin on Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:22 am

more fun facts: dan carcillo and ray emery are smokers
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby mikey287 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:50 am

steelhammer wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
Steve wrote:I was at the Nedved 4 OT game in Landover. Zubov was on the ice every other shift, it seemed - playing like a warrior, less than a month before CP made that comment.


Not bad for a noted between-period smoker!


Sorry for going off-topic, but any chance you could list some of the more prominent smokers (known and or strongly suspected of) in modern league history? Just curious.


Can't really prove in-game smoking, that seems to be an extreme rarity...it's also banned contractually.

Image

Miikka Kiprusoff and Dion Phaneuf
Obviously Mario, which stopped a bit when Gretzky got a hold of him in the 1987 Canada Cup and told him to wake the **** up, you're a star!
I've heard a lot of Russians did/do: Daniil Markov (in fact, it was rumored he would sometimes drink during games), Nikolai Khabibulin, Alexander Mogilny, Andrei Kovalenko, Alexei Zhamnov was a noted smoker...
Denis Savard and Guy Lafleur did I believe (I think Le Gros Bill mentions that Lafleur smoked between periods sometimes)
Bryan McCabe seemed like he was always going through a mid-life crisis late in his career, I'm pretty sure I saw him smoking after a game once...
Al Iafrate could smoke between shifts!
Didn't Ryan Malone smoke while he was here?

Pretty much ever Swede dips, and therefore everyone on the 2004 Vancouver Canucks did too...
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby Steve on Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:27 pm

mikey287 wrote:
Steve wrote:I was at the Nedved 4 OT game in Landover. Zubov was on the ice every other shift, it seemed - playing like a warrior, less than a month before CP made that comment.


Not bad for a noted between-period smoker!

And yes, Mario was behind the trade. When Patrick proposed it, it was accepted immediately (by Bob Gainey?). Everyone knew at the time it was wrong and history proves that it was.


haha - not bad indeed. I've never smoked, but I could have taken it up during that game, so stressful!

Fair or not, sometimes it just takes one game to form an opinion of a player, and I just remember thinking that these guys have to be exausted, and that Zubov seemed to be out there every other shift. I tried to find some ice times for that game, but I think maybe they didn't track it back then.

I knew the trade was wrong at the time too - I thought great, let's trade for a player who was an all star once, for a player who will be one for the next five years at least. (to be fair, I think Hatcher had been an all star 2-3 times). Oh well, time for me to let that trade go already haha...
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby mikey287 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:38 pm

Steve wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
Steve wrote:I was at the Nedved 4 OT game in Landover. Zubov was on the ice every other shift, it seemed - playing like a warrior, less than a month before CP made that comment.


Not bad for a noted between-period smoker!

And yes, Mario was behind the trade. When Patrick proposed it, it was accepted immediately (by Bob Gainey?). Everyone knew at the time it was wrong and history proves that it was.


haha - not bad indeed. I've never smoked, but I could have taken it up during that game, so stressful!

Fair or not, sometimes it just takes one game to form an opinion of a player, and I just remember thinking that these guys have to be exausted, and that Zubov seemed to be out there every other shift. I tried to find some ice times for that game, but I think maybe they didn't track it back then.

I knew the trade was wrong at the time too - I thought great, let's trade for a player who was an all star once, for a player who will be one for the next five years at least. (to be fair, I think Hatcher had been an all star 2-3 times). Oh well, time for me to let that trade go already haha...


Official ice times were not kept until 1998 in the NHL. A very rough estimate would indicate that Zubov played perhaps around 70 minutes of that game. He's approximated to have played over 26 minutes per night in the regular season (most on the team, ~3 minutes more than the next defenseman)...
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby Gunnerfan on Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:41 pm

Steve wrote:I always wondered if it (the Mario orchestrating the trade) was just an urban legend that took off...

This trade still annoys me. Living here in Caps country, we used to make fun of Hatcher when he was with the Caps. (of course, we also made fun of Larry Murphy, but that one worked out). I was in disbelief when I heard we traded Zubov for Hatcher. I remember CP saying the Pens wanted a "warrior", after the trade was done. I was at the Nedved 4 OT game in Landover. Zubov was on the ice every other shift, it seemed - playing like a warrior, less than a month before CP made that comment.

While we're on the subject of Zuby - have the pens ever had a better skater? (other than Coffey of course). I'm guessing they have, but the list is probably small - it was a treat watching him fly around the ice in person.



Like him or not, but Bob Errey was one to the best all around skaters in the league. I'm not talking about top end speed, I'm talking about start/stop and change of direction as well.
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Re: Mario/Zubov Thing

Postby Desiato on Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:16 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:It turned out ok for us 10 years later but in those 10 months Patrick traded away what would have been an insane 2nd line for years and one of the best dmen of our era:

Nedved Francis Jagr
Naslund Smolinski Murray


To be fair, Francis left as a free agent due to financial constraints, which also heavily impacted--among other non-on-ice factors--the Jagr trade. The Pens benefited from the Nedved trade as Kovalev was a strong performer. I'm fine with the Smolinski trade; he seemed expendable and the Pens needed a player like Kasparaitis, who had a pretty good stay with us. I thought it was a pretty fair deal. I think the Pens were better off with Stu Barnes whom CP stole.

But, of course, the Naslund and Murray deals were brutal. Although, Stojanov didn't really get a chance to prove the gamble was worth it due to a car accident which allegedly derailed his career.

Edit:

On topic, the Zubov trade still haunts me a bit, but it all worked out in the end. That, and other mistakes, enabled the great team we've had the past few seasons to happen. Unfortunately, there was no single missing piece that would have put 97-2005 Pens teams in serious cup contention, not even Zubov. Those teams had brutal financial, ownership, management and coaching issues in addition to holes in the line-up.
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