Tangradi

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Re: Tangradi

Postby shmenguin on Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:07 pm

i don't think the timing of martin's pinching is the problem. the disasters that happen are usually a result of him handing over with astonishing ease. once he gets down low, it's a quick turnover and a quick exploitation of his positioning. even a guy like engelland, who isn't blessed with half of martin's natural abilities, knows that when you're behind the other team's net, you have to make it difficult for them to get a hold of the puck. his solution is to plow through everyone - and do it it quickly. and it works.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby meow on Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:48 pm

I think we can all agree on one thing, Martin has a lower hockey IQ than most of us had hoped. That really is the root of the problem.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby shmenguin on Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:58 pm

meow wrote:I think we can all agree on one thing, Martin has a lower hockey IQ than most of us had hoped. That really is the root of the problem.


the term hockey IQ is pretty abstract. he may have a good IQ, he just has trouble being dialed in at all times, IMO. so i'd say he has his head up his butt more than most of us had hoped.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby mikey287 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:00 pm

meow wrote:I think we can all agree on one thing, Martin has a lower hockey IQ than most of us had hoped. That really is the root of the problem.


Respectfully disagree.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby meow on Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:31 pm

mikey287 wrote:
meow wrote:I think we can all agree on one thing, Martin has a lower hockey IQ than most of us had hoped. That really is the root of the problem.


Respectfully disagree.

You're not disappointed with his inability to read and react? His situationally awareness/unawareness? His inability to comprehend he is the last guy back, with the puck, and instead of firing it off the glass he tries to thread a pass through 3 guys?
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Re: Tangradi

Postby mikey287 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:05 pm

meow wrote:
mikey287 wrote:
meow wrote:I think we can all agree on one thing, Martin has a lower hockey IQ than most of us had hoped. That really is the root of the problem.


Respectfully disagree.

You're not disappointed with his inability to read and react? His situationally awareness/unawareness? His inability to comprehend he is the last guy back, with the puck, and instead of firing it off the glass he tries to thread a pass through 3 guys?


Hockey IQ doesn't magically go away. I think his physical limitations and the second-guessing that he needs to process to try to fulfill his duties (as set forth by his coaches) on the ice that are against his better judgment are producing a poor on-ice product. I think a lot of Martin's woes are environmental, he's not an ideal fit for this club, but I think he's just not very capable of success under these terms.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:08 pm

I'm not Shero
but this guys lazy
heres an idea
cut tangradi
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Re: Tangradi

Postby tfrizz on Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:09 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:I'm not Shero
but this guys lazy
heres an idea
cut tangradi


They're not going to cut him when they just signed him to a 1-year contract. It'd be like flushing $726,000 down the toilet because they'd have to buy the contract out.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby Juice on Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:23 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:I'm not Shero
but this guys lazy
heres an idea
cut tangradi

iseewhatyoudidthere.jpg
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Re: Tangradi

Postby mikey287 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:26 pm

tfrizz wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I'm not Shero
but this guys lazy
heres an idea
cut tangradi


They're not going to cut him when they just signed him to a 1-year contract. It'd be like flushing $726,000 down the toilet because they'd have to buy the contract out.


He's not serious, and we're outside the ordinary course buyout window anyhow...
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Re: Tangradi

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:27 pm

meow wrote:I think we can all agree on one thing, Martin has a lower hockey IQ than most of us had hoped. That really is the root of the problem.


Martin has opposite of a low hockey IQ. The root of the problem remains to be seen. Love or hate a player, we have to accept that sometimes a player just has a bad season. Professional sports deal so much with the mental side of life and sometimes we as fans don't really think about that. We figure, "oh, he's healthy, he should play well."

I remember just a few seasons ago when Patrick Marleau was having a terrible year for San Jose(48pts) and EVERYONE came out against him. The fans wanted him gone, the media was very unkind to him and the next year had a career high 38 goals. I'm obviously not directly comparing the two, but you just can't say things like that about a proven hockey player after one bad season in his entire career.

All things being equal, Martin's issues will become more apparent during/after this season. We will either see that Martin doesn't fit into Bylsma's system or that Martin simply had a bad year last year.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby Sarcastic on Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:52 pm

mikey287 wrote:Hockey IQ doesn't magically go away. I think his physical limitations and the second-guessing that he needs to process to try to fulfill his duties (as set forth by his coaches) on the ice that are against his better judgment are producing a poor on-ice product. I think a lot of Martin's woes are environmental, he's not an ideal fit for this club, but I think he's just not very capable of success under these terms.


I'm leaning to what mikey is saying. I don't think Martin is stupid, but his physical limitations are creating problems on a team where he is asked to be more of a stud and he knows it and it then creates doubt in his head and then all hell breaks loose. Why can't he play a game like Rob Blake, for instance. Big shot, big hit. Physically, he can't do it. He's a better player in a safer system. I know Bylsma has asked him to pitch in and create more offense, but he hasn't been successful. Which is actually a weird thing because he can skate and.. well, OK, how about this. His defense IQ is high (just can't handle physical game), but his offense IQ is low? Yes/No?
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Re: Tangradi

Postby Sarcastic on Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:54 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:All things being equal, Martin's issues will become more apparent during/after this season. We will either see that Martin doesn't fit into Bylsma's system or that Martin simply had a bad year last year.


I still want him gone and replaced with a second pairing stud who can fire the puck. I want a setup like we had with Gonchar, Letang, Gogo, one on each pair.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby thepittman on Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:27 pm

Why is this a Paul Martin thread?
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Re: Tangradi

Postby meecrofilm on Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:41 pm

You best start believin' in Paul Martin threads......


Spoiler:
YOU'RE IN ONE!!
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Re: Tangradi

Postby mikey287 on Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:59 pm

Transition ability is better than his traditional offensive IQ...once he gets in the offense zone, he's not great of a read nor is he very creative...offensive blueline and back he's quality...
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Re: Tangradi

Postby DesertPenguin on Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:02 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:All things being equal, Martin's issues will become more apparent during/after this season. We will either see that Martin doesn't fit into Bylsma's system or that Martin simply had a bad year last year.


I still want him gone and replaced with a second pairing stud who can fire the puck. I want a setup like we had with Gonchar, Letang, Gogo, one on each pair.


We'll get there, but it won't be right away.

2013-2014 defensive pairings:

Letang - Despres
Morrow - Orpik
Niskanen - Dumoulin

(With Brooksie playing out his contract in a shrinking role until giving way to one of the other pens prospects)
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Re: Tangradi

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:55 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:All things being equal, Martin's issues will become more apparent during/after this season. We will either see that Martin doesn't fit into Bylsma's system or that Martin simply had a bad year last year.


I still want him gone and replaced with a second pairing stud who can fire the puck. I want a setup like we had with Gonchar, Letang, Gogo, one on each pair.


Not every Dman is gonna be able to fire the puck, and you also don't need every single one of your D to be able to. Currently Letang and Niskanen can fire the puck, plus we have Despres and Morrow coming up, both players who can fire the puck.

If Martin is able to regain his form, while not physical, he's an ideal partner for one of those guys. I can actually see Martin being a perfect partner for Despres. I believe Morrow and Despres will greatly benefit from having a veteran partner who can help their development. Sometimes in those situations, the young player can even bring out the best in the veteran who's inspired by the talent and abilities of the rookie.

Again, IF Martin is able to return to form, Martin/Despres and Letang/Morrow could be killer tandems.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:56 pm

meecrofilm wrote:You best start believin' in Paul Martin threads......


Spoiler:
YOU'RE IN ONE!!


Well, we have no other choice really. This situation currently is that he's here to stay. I'd rather send positive thoughts than b*tch and moan.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby Nizzy on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:40 pm

I just logged in to say I really hope Bylsma is canned early next year. I hope he gets toned out like Therrien did. I still thinks its incredible how he doesnt get more blame around Pittsburgh-media for that pathetic series vs Philly.

For a team to be that bad (collectively) you have to almost try. Okay-Jordan gave up on defense. Doesn't explain the whole team. I predict this team grabs another Cup within 2 years after Bylsma is fired. (meaning the year he is fired or the year after).

I'm going to get so ready for game 1. Call off work, invite some friends over, get some beer, some snacks, big screen the game.

PREGAME:

BYLSMA
POTASH

'GIT TEW ERR GAME'

/season



EDIT: this still stands: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58811
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Re: Tangradi

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:47 pm

Nizzy wrote:I just logged in to say I really hope Bylsma is canned early next year. I hope he gets toned out like Therrien did. I still thinks its incredible how he doesnt get more blame around Pittsburgh-media for that pathetic series vs Philly.

For a team to be that bad (collectively) you have to almost try. Okay-Jordan gave up on defense. Doesn't explain the whole team. I predict this team grabs another Cup within 2 years after Bylsma is fired. (meaning the year he is fired or the year after).

I'm going to get so ready for game 1. Call off work, invite some friends over, get some beer, some snacks, big screen the game.

PREGAME:

BYLSMA
POTASH

'GIT TEW ERR GAME'

/season



EDIT: this still stands: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58811


I am pretty much in complete agreement on Bylsma. I think it's gonna take a lot to get him fired though. It's gonna take another 1st round ousting. I hate having to lose for things to change.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby thepittman on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:51 pm

lol wut
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Re: Tangradi

Postby thepittman on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:54 pm

I didn't see any reason to fire Bylsma, unpredictable things happen. That in my opinion is the best part of the playoffs. Pens and the Flyers were supposed to be the ones to crush the east and neither of them made it anywhere.

Let's wait for this season to play out with our first shot at a 100% team in awhile before we call for heads rolling.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:02 pm

By the time this thread reaches page 20 the discussion will somehow be about Vitale.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby Nizzy on Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:17 pm

thepittman wrote:I didn't see any reason to fire Bylsma, unpredictable things happen. That in my opinion is the best part of the playoffs. Pens and the Flyers were supposed to be the ones to crush the east and neither of them made it anywhere.

Let's wait for this season to play out with our first shot at a 100% team in awhile before we call for heads rolling.



The Flyers were a bad team with a few studs on Offense that were playing well. Their defense was garbage, and the goaltending was a joke.

pittman how can you say that when Bylsma's system was broken when we lost that game to the Senators like what 8-4? Then back to back games vs the islanders? When those 4 possible points vs the islanders, might have made us tied for 1st in the conference?

They had tape on how to destory Bylsma's system for weeks. Bylsma should have looked at the Senator game, 2x islanders game, saw the weak links, saw the poor defensive system and did nothing. How come the game we looked the best in was when Tangradi and Despres played? How come the game we did the best in was when we had our whole entire team of 5 "wait" an extra second and stay back on defense longer? That's when we dropped 10 on Philly.

Bylsma should have known how bad Martin was playing, and used Despres after game 2. Not game 3. Bylsma didn't change a single thing in that series (probably) until Mario stepped in. Malkin was getting shut down by an 18 year old rookie, and he has the last change option, and instead of marching out Adams/4th line, he keeps putting Malkin on there.

Tortorella? Hey Malkin, you're *pizza*ing benched until you pick it up.

It was a pathetic display of coaching, and I'm honestly shocked people are blaming the team before the coach. Players player, and coaches coach, but players only play that bad if the coach isnt coaching anymore.

Bylsma doesnt need to be an *pizza* like Tors or Lavvy, but he needs to get on his guys more, take away time. He doesn't trust young guys enough. Loves grinders too much. It was pathetic to watch. The best part is? I don't expect him to change at all.

Gone by Christmas. :fist:
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