Tangradi

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Re: Tangradi

Postby Mongoose87 on Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:53 am

Pitt87 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I don't think he'll work out with Sid if given 500 games. He doesn't have the legs that everyone who has worked with Sid has had.


I would argue that if anyone played 500 games with Sid, they would have a legit shot at scoring 500 points in their career.

I would also argue that Eric Tangradi has a better chance of proving me wrong than right.

Kunitz is a legit NHLer, and he doesn't come close to a point per game, even with Sid. Playing with Crosby does not magically turn people into all-stars.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby mikey287 on Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:05 pm

Important to identify the differences between and limitations of static producers and dynamic players capable of growth.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby pcm on Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:42 pm

Gotta think Ryan will get a package equitable to Staal's, especially if it's true that Ryan's instigating a move because he doesn't want to play in Anaheim anymore.

So that said, how about Pouliot, Dumoulin, and... Tangradi for Bobby Ryan?

Okay, it's a lesser package as Tangradi is definitely < than Sutter at this point (and Ryan is probably > Staal). But I wonder if this would work as a starting point / framework. Maybe Kennedy needs to be in there to give them a surefire roster player. Maybe Dumoulin gets switched out for Despres our even Bennet, a SoCal boy. Maybe Dumoulin, Bennet, & Kennedy?

But would Ryan even want to play in Pittsburgh if he's a hometown Philly boy? Gotta think this would be agood situation for him, but if not, that'd be a big red flag.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby JoseCuervo on Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:02 pm

Pens aren't getting Ryan. We can speculate with all the bad trades we want to, but the ducks aren't going to get rid of Ryan for just a handful of prospects.

Realistically, I'd think any potential trade would at least start with Sutter and Despres unless you wanted to trade malkin/crosby for Ryan+.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby mikey287 on Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:15 pm

As in the big free agency thread, Ducks can't take their best asset and liquidate it. Won't work. Need to use your best asset to fill your biggest need. For them, it's the 2nd line center position. Waste of time you trade your best asset and don't get your biggest need fulfilled. Regardless of value gotten back. Tangradi was theirs to begin with, also he's a "hometown Philly boy", for the record.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby pcm on Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:29 pm

I don't think the Pens get Ryan either, I'm just drawing references to what Staal got us...

As it is, I'm totally happy with the Pens roster. The opportunity for some younger players to play in significant roles on this team is a big change from the past. Backfilling the roster with bottom-feeder vets just hampers the development of the organization. Give the current squad 30-50 games and see what holes need filling. The better UFA crop next season means the trade market will be good.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby offsides on Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:20 pm

Mongoose87 wrote:Kunitz is a legit NHLer, and he doesn't come close to a point per game, even with Sid. Playing with Crosby does not magically turn people into all-stars


I agree. Sid is not like playing with Mario. Mario could magically turn average players into superstars. Remeber Warren Young and Robbie Brown? They were superstars while playing with Mario but not so much when they played with someone else.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:10 pm

If Ryan is traded, it will have nothing to do with Anaheim's financial situation. They will want an equal return. As others have stated, they will not be liquidating or trying to get prospects or picks.

I'll play the game of "ifs"...

Let's say the Ducks wanted to trade with the Pens and were open to not having to get someone like Neal or Letang in return, and let's be honest, if they were to trade with us, that's the kind of player we'd have to swap out...but IF the Penguins could pull off a trade without doing that, you're looking at something like this:

Heart of the trade: Despres or Morrow and a 1st round pick.
Rest: Orpik, Cooke or Sutter.

This, IMO, would be the least Anaheim would probably accept if they would even consider leaning toward a prospect loaded trade.

Realistically, if the Pens had any shot at Ryan it would be straight up for either Neal or Letang, which obviously doesn't make much sense...for the Pens at least. From our side, we(at least the fans) are looking to ADD a winger, not swap. For Anaheim, Ryan for Neal is the ideal trade. They'd be swapping out wingers and replacing Ryan for a comparable player...which is what they'd be looking to do if it comes down to trading him.

What surprises me to be honest is that Anaheim didn't trade Ryan for Nash. This also leads me to believe that there may not be a lot of truth to the Ryan situation because Anaheim and Columbus were two teams in nearly identical situations. Obviously from the financial standpoint it's more money to spend on Anaheim's part, but they also have plenty of cap space.

I think it's highly unlikely Ryan goes to the Penguins. If Ryan gets traded it will likely be for another winger of equal status or a high draft pick from this or last year's draft that's highly touted and NHL-ready. Anaheim is likely about to enter a re-building process, specifically if they lose out on Perry after this season, so they need a centerpiece. Examples of those picks would be: Yakupov, Galchenyuk, etc...

On to Tangradi:
He has no real trade value...yet
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Re: Tangradi

Postby no name on Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:50 am

All this Ryan talk can stop until there is a new CBA, if the owners would get their way the cap ceiling will fall to 51 million. We would be in a world of hurt if that would happen.

But if we do get down to playing some hockey, its about time Tangradi gets an extended look on Sids or Genos wing. If not i really think he can play a positive roll on the 3rd or 4th line. Although that would be disapointing since when we traded for him he was projected as a top line winger. Still think Duper and Kunitz on Sids line would be fine to start the season with.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby JeffDFD on Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:01 am

no name wrote:All this Ryan talk can stop until there is a new CBA, if the owners would get their way the cap ceiling will fall to 51 million. We would be in a world of hurt if that would happen.

But if we do get down to playing some hockey, its about time Tangradi gets an extended look on Sids or Genos wing. If not i really think he can play a positive roll on the 3rd or 4th line. Although that would be disapointing since when we traded for him he was projected as a top line winger. Still think Duper and Kunitz on Sids line would be fine to start the season with.


Huh? Aren't they proposing salary rollbacks? So wouldn't everything be even as far as - roll the cap back 20% and roll all salaries back 20%???
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Re: Tangradi

Postby beLIEve on Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:50 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:What surprises me to be honest is that Anaheim didn't trade Ryan for Nash. This also leads me to believe that there may not be a lot of truth to the Ryan situation because Anaheim and Columbus were two teams in nearly identical situations. Obviously from the financial standpoint it's more money to spend on Anaheim's part, but they also have plenty of cap space.


Its quite possible that Anaheim offered Ryan for Nash, but Nash didn't accept it. Nash's NTC caused Columbus to get far below what they otherwise could have.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby DayWalker on Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:37 pm

I guess the best one can say about the hilariously insane idea of a self-styled Stanley Cup contender trotting out Eric Trangradi on one of its top two lines is that at least the team should have a substantially higher first-round draft pick next summer to address its winger situation...
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Re: Tangradi

Postby tfrizz on Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:09 pm

DayWalker wrote:I guess the best one can say about the hilariously insane idea of a self-styled Stanley Cup contender trotting out Eric Trangradi on one of its top two lines is that at least the team should have a substantially higher first-round draft pick next summer to address its winger situation...


And then ask yourself this question: Do the Pens actually have any options better than Tangradi?
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Re: Tangradi

Postby DayWalker on Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:19 pm

tfrizz wrote:
DayWalker wrote:I guess the best one can say about the hilariously insane idea of a self-styled Stanley Cup contender trotting out Eric Trangradi on one of its top two lines is that at least the team should have a substantially higher first-round draft pick next summer to address its winger situation...


And then ask yourself this question: Do the Pens actually have any options better than Tangradi?


Yeah, pretty pathetic, huh?
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Re: Tangradi

Postby DayWalker on Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:21 pm

mikey287 wrote:As in the big free agency thread, Ducks can't take their best asset and liquidate it. Won't work. Need to use your best asset to fill your biggest need. For them, it's the 2nd line center position. Waste of time you trade your best asset and don't get your biggest need fulfilled. Regardless of value gotten back. Tangradi was theirs to begin with, also he's a "hometown Philly boy", for the record.


Unless you're Scott Howson...
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Re: Tangradi

Postby mikey287 on Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:29 pm

DayWalker wrote:I guess the best one can say about the hilariously insane idea of a self-styled Stanley Cup contender trotting out Eric Trangradi on one of its top two lines is that at least the team should have a substantially higher first-round draft pick next summer to address its winger situation...


- Hasn't happened yet.
- Think about other late-bloomers, or fringe players that grew into their role. Not saying Tangradi will or won't, but your response is unneeded cynicism and lacks complete context. I wonder how Ducks fans felt when a 27-year-old left winger with less than 100 NHL games under his belt, who had just been on waivers twice the year before, was inserted into their top-six to start the season...a season that saw them win the Stanley Cup.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby mikey287 on Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:30 pm

DayWalker wrote:
mikey287 wrote:As in the big free agency thread, Ducks can't take their best asset and liquidate it. Won't work. Need to use your best asset to fill your biggest need. For them, it's the 2nd line center position. Waste of time you trade your best asset and don't get your biggest need fulfilled. Regardless of value gotten back. Tangradi was theirs to begin with, also he's a "hometown Philly boy", for the record.


Unless you're Scott Howson...


Liquidation vs. NHL acquistions

Understanding the difference is crucial in terms of this discussion. Context surrounding the trade is very necessary.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby DayWalker on Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:36 pm

mikey287 wrote:
DayWalker wrote:
mikey287 wrote:As in the big free agency thread, Ducks can't take their best asset and liquidate it. Won't work. Need to use your best asset to fill your biggest need. For them, it's the 2nd line center position. Waste of time you trade your best asset and don't get your biggest need fulfilled. Regardless of value gotten back. Tangradi was theirs to begin with, also he's a "hometown Philly boy", for the record.


Unless you're Scott Howson...


Liquidation vs. NHL acquistions

Understanding the difference is crucial in terms of this discussion. Context surrounding the trade is very necessary.


Yeah, given the fact that Howson got fleeced by the Rangers, I think it is unwise to pretend that we know what Anaheim can or will get for Bobby Ryan. I am certainly not suggesting Bob Murray is going to take pennies on the dollar for Ryan, but none of us are connected enough to know what Anaheim will accept in a trade to categorically insist that "X" is insufficient or not what Anaheim is looking for.

What I can say with confidence is this: they won't be pining for Eric Tangradi.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby mikey287 on Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:39 pm

Why would they? They gave him up already. Their need for a second line center is obvious. The trade is a likely failure (almost certain) if their biggest need is not addressed by their best asset.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby steelhammer on Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:43 pm

Are there any other teams in the league where Tangradi would have a legitimate shot of a top-6 role?
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Re: Tangradi

Postby columbia on Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:46 pm

steelhammer wrote:Are there any other teams in the league where Tangradi would have a legitimate shot of a top-6 role?


Jason Blake just might have a better chance.
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Re: Tangradi

Postby steelhammer on Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:49 pm

Two part question: top-9?
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Re: Tangradi

Postby DayWalker on Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:58 pm

mikey287 wrote:
DayWalker wrote:I guess the best one can say about the hilariously insane idea of a self-styled Stanley Cup contender trotting out Eric Trangradi on one of its top two lines is that at least the team should have a substantially higher first-round draft pick next summer to address its winger situation...


- Hasn't happened yet.
- Think about other late-bloomers, or fringe players that grew into their role. Not saying Tangradi will or won't, but your response is unneeded cynicism and lacks complete context. I wonder how Ducks fans felt when a 27-year-old left winger with less than 100 NHL games under his belt, who had just been on waivers twice the year before, was inserted into their top-six to start the season...a season that saw them win the Stanley Cup.


First of all, I remain supremely confident that Ray Shero knows that a top six consisting partially of Kunitz, Dupuis, and Tangradi would mean that the team is not anywhere close to being a meaningful Cup contender, so I am really not concerned that Eric Tangradi will ever be seriously considered for this role--especially come April 2013. Whether or not Shero can adequately address the team's glaring needs up front is a debatable proposition, but I have faith he knows they need to be addressed nonetheless.

However, to suggest that it is "unneeded cynicism" or "lacks complete context" (whatever the hell that means) if this self-styled Cup contender is actually considering Tangradi in that role in light of his skill set and production is, to put it charitably, insane. For every Chris Kunitz that you can cite, there are exponentially more players who never fit the profile of "late-bloomer" or accomplish anything at the NHL level, so I really don't get your point. What about Eric Tangradi's body of work, skill set, or career trajectory suggests that he warrants a meaningful look as a top-six forward on a self-styled Cup contender so as to justify your reference to Chris Kunitz in 2006?
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Re: Tangradi

Postby mikey287 on Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:05 pm

steelhammer wrote:Two part question: top-9?


Boston - Size and board work that the team covets. Julien has a history of making good on skaters with limited mobility.
Chicago - Below Kane and Hossa as natural wingers are: Stalberg, Frolik, Bickel, Hayes, Carcillo, Shaw...at least one has to play in the top-six, at least two or three in the top-9.
San Jose - History of dealing with questionable skaters, room on third line after recent exodus of similar players (headed by Jamie McGinn).
Minnesota - Roster upheaval, counting on fringe players and prospects and injury-prone players to fill roles. Lots of competition, not a lot of competitors...
New Jersey - Lack of usable wingers throughout the organization
NY Islanders - Losers like Parenteau can play top line time, anyone can...much competition, competitors still growing...Nino, Bailey, Cizikas...stop gaps pending: Boyes.
Phoenix - Overall lack of wingers, Torres suspended more than 1/4 of the season doesn't help...
Nashville - Limited winger competition, fringe NHLers pencilled in for NHL jobs, would be very competitive...
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Re: Tangradi

Postby DayWalker on Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:06 pm

mikey287 wrote:Why would they? They gave him up already. Their need for a second line center is obvious. The trade is a likely failure (almost certain) if their biggest need is not addressed by their best asset.


Columbus had many "obvious" needs; which one of those was adequately addressed when they dealt their coveted asset? The fact that they couldn't even land Michael Del Zotto for a former Rocket Richard winner should give anyone pause when they categorically insist that "X" trade for "X" player just won't cut it.

The funny thing about sports is that trades don't all always make sense, and "obvious" needs are not always addressed. We just had a bigger player dealt this summer for, essentially, pennies on the dollar, so unless Scott Howson is uniquely that stupid and incompetent (hey, it's possible, right?), NOBODY on this board should rule out otherwise reasonable offers for a player like Bobby Ryan.
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