Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 25)

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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby Gaucho on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:13 am

mikey287 wrote:I like the Ulf pick, logged some pretty major minutes for us while he was here. High on my radar. Not the best player available I don't believe, but a premium on defensive guys exists after Murphy and Burrows were picked I think.

Got sidetracked tonight with another history project that ran long, hopefully I'll get a chance over the weekend to make some more bios...


Well, the best player available only played in 12 regular season games for the Pens. :wink:
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby mikey287 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:07 am

Sarcastic wrote:mikey, can you put up team lineups as they're being constructed so they were easy to read. not just a sequence of who selected who.


Yeah, I was thinking about how best to do that...I guess I'll just throw it in one of the posts on the first page instead of making a new thread...the thing I'm concerned about is making someone's lineup for them. That's not really my place. If they want Jaromir Jagr killing penalties or Dave Burrows playing both power play units, that's their business.

I guess I'll just edit a post and fill them in and fellow drafters can just tell me what adjustments to make...I'll do that sometime this weekend I guess when we get a couple more players per team...
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:09 am

It could be done on that Google Doc, but it would be time consuming and nonspecific (meaning just a list of players at each position as opposed to actual lines)
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby mikey287 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:25 am

I feel it can be done just as easily in the thread, no? I'm not all that used to Google Docs, but I'm not against using if it's a better solution. I just feel I can do what I'm doing in post #24 of this thread. Just edit it as needed...am I missing a perk to the Google Docs way?
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby meow on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:40 am

I posted that Google Doc earlier in the thread. I update it a few times a day.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby Rylan on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:48 am

Good looking meow :fist:
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby meow on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:49 am

Rylan wrote:Good looking meow :fist:

Thanks. And if you want to flip a winger to the other side, let me know and I can do that.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby Gaucho on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:01 am

Could you include usernames on the sheet? I keep losing track of who's who.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby meow on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:07 am

Gaucho wrote:Could you include usernames on the sheet? I keep losing track of who's who.

How's that?
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby columbia on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:09 am

<pardon the mistaken intrusion>
Last edited by columbia on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby Rylan on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:09 am

:lol:
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby Gaucho on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:18 am

meow wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Could you include usernames on the sheet? I keep losing track of who's who.

How's that?


I know that Left Wing Locks is up next, but I keep forgetting that it's dman. Hey, I'm old.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby Gaucho on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:21 am

Oh wait, I just figured it out... :face:

I'm not old, just stupid.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby Gaucho on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:21 am

You know these days when you don't seem to ever wake up?
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby Rylan on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:22 am

:lol: smooth Gaucho.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby mikey287 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:48 pm

Marc-Andre Fleury

Position: Goaltender
6'2" / 180 lbs.
Catches: Left

As a Penguin (2003-2012): 434 GP - 226 wins, 143 losses, 41 T/OTL - 2.68 GAA, .909 save pct., 22 shutouts - playoffs: 75 GP - 43 wins, 32 losses - 2.68 GAA, .904 save pct., 5 shutouts.

In Penguins history: 2nd in GP, t-1st in wins, 1st in GAA, 1st in save pct., t-1st in shutouts

7 full seasons + 1 partial season = 8 seasons

1x Stanley Cup Champion (2009)
1x Stanley Cup Finalist (2008)

---

Award voting

Hart: 9th (4th among goalies)
Vezina: t-7th*, t-8th*
All-Star Team: 6th, 7th

* - one vote

1x NHL All-Star

---

Goaltending stats vs. the league: (2003-04 partial season ignored) - [top-15 finishes only]

2005-06: N/A for wins, GAA, save pct., shutouts
2006-07: Wins: 3rd; Shutouts: t-6th
2007-08: GAA: 11th; Save Pct: 4th; Shutouts: t-9th
2008-09: Wins: 7th; Shutouts: t-13th
2009-10: Wins: t-8th
2010-11: Wins: t-6th; GAA: 9th; Save Pct: 15th
2011-12: Wins: 2nd; GAA: 13th

---

Goaltending stats vs. backups (note: "pts/gm" figure is measured by "gm = mins/60 - not tradition "GP" figure)

2005-06: 50 GP: 0.68 pts/gm, 3.25 GAA, .898 save pct., 1 shutout
Backups (2): 43 GP: 0.73 pts/gm, 4.23 GAA, .877 save pct., 1 shutout

2006-07: 67 GP: 1.37 pts/gm, 2.83 GAA, .906 save pct., 5 shutouts
Backup: 22 GP: 0.87 pts/gm, 2.83 GAA, .909 save pct., 1 shutout

2007-08: 35 GP: 1.29 pts/gm, 2.33 GAA, .921 save pct., 4 shutouts
Backups (2): 57 GP: 1.20 pts/gm, 2.61 GAA, .916 save pct., 4 shutouts

2008-09: 62 GP: 1.27 pts/gm, 2.67 GAA, .912 save pct., 4 shutouts
Backups (3): 26 GP: 0.98 pts/gm, 2.81 GAA, .899 save pct., 0 shutouts

2009-10: 67 GP: 1.26 pts/gm, 2.65 GAA, .905 save pct., 1 shutout
Backup: 25 GP: 1.08 pts/gm, 2.93 GAA, .900 save pct., 0 shutouts

2010-11: 65 GP: 1.25 pts/gm, 2.32 GAA, .918 save pct., 3 shutouts
Backup: 23 GP: 1.34 pts/gm, 2.17 GAA, .922 save pct., 1 shutout

2011-12: 67 GP: 1.36 pts/gm, 2.36 GAA, .913 save pct., 3 shutouts
Backups: 21 GP: 1.13 pts/gm, 3.26 GAA, .877 save pct., 0 shutouts

Fleury is anywhere from "level" to "way better" than his backups statistically which not all goalies can say, both historically (Fuhr, B.Smith) or contemporaneously (Brodeur, Thomas). Many variables can play into this, including scheduling and quality of competition. Generally, backups will face weaker competition but that's difficult to quantify and it would have to be adjusted for across the board - not just for Fleury.

---

Sports Illustrated - Oct. 13, 2003 wrote:Marc-Andre Fleury is the dauphin, next in the regal line of Quebec goaltenders. ||| Fleury's game is a blend of solid technique and quick lateral movement, leavened with poise and a smidgen of attitude. ||| "He's a gamer," Phoenix Coyotes goalie coach Benoit Allaire says...


Sports Illustrated - May 19, 2008 wrote:Fleury took two strides behind the net, corralled the puck, looked off the intruder and then switched to his backhand, rimming a 10-footer to a defenseman to start a Pittsburgh breakout. For a puck-moving maestro like, say, the Dallas Stars' Marty Turco, this pass would have fallen at the midpoint of the spectrum between ho and hum, but for Fleury, who used to treat the puck as if it had cooties...the play was wondrous.

...

The essence of this makeover is the guts of Fleury's game, which has evolved dramatically since he returned from his ankle injury. "It's almost like two different goalies the way he's playing now," Pittsburgh defenseman XXXXXX XXXXXXX says. "He's much more comfortable."

...

Fleury has always has been a dervish in net, boasting hockey's quickest legs when he entered the NHL... ||| ...Fleury has metamorphosed from a twitchy, inconsistent goalie into a dependable netminder, Pittsburgh's white knight.



Sports Illustrated - Jun. 22, 2009 wrote:...highly skilled but skittish goaltender...


Pierre McGuire - Apr. 11, 2011 wrote:He's much improved technically, particularly on his angles, and no longer has to rely solely on his quickness. With 62 career postseason starts, he'll be the most experienced starting goalie this spring.


Dan Rosen/NHL.com - Sep. 27, 2011 wrote:The Penguins goalie is a dark horse in the Vezina Trophy discussion... ||| Fleury not only deserves to be on that list of the League's elite netminders, he'll put himself at the top with another spectacular season, one that finally will be good enough to net the first pick of the 2003 Entry Draft the individual accolades he has worked hard to achieve. For starters, Fleury has developed the personality and confidence to handle any bumps in the road. ||| He's gotten better with each passing season because he's a ferocious competitor. It's high time he becomes known as the NHL's best goaltender.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby mikey287 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:48 pm

Tom Barrasso

Position: Goaltender
6'3" / 210 lbs.
Catches: Right

As a Penguin (Nov. 1988 - Mar. 2000): 460 GP - 226 wins, 153 losses, 53 ties - 3.27 GAA, .896 save pct., 22 shutouts - playoffs: 101 GP - 56 wins, 42 losses - 2.91 GAA, .907 save pct., 6 shutouts

In Penguins history: 1st in GP, t-1st in wins, 6th in GAA, 5th in save pct., t-1st in shutouts

10 full seasons + 2 partial season = 12 seasons

2x Stanley Cup Champion (1991, 1992)

---

Award voting

Hart: 18th*
Vezina: 2nd, 3rd, t-7th*
All-Star Team: 2nd, 4th

* - one vote

---

Goaltending stats vs. the league: [top-12 finishes only]
1988-89: N/A for wins, GAA, save pct., shutouts
1989-90: Did not meet GP requirement
1990-91: 5th in wins, 10th in save pct., t-12th in shutouts
1991-92: t-10th in wins
1992-93: 1st in wins, 3rd in GAA, 4th in save pct., t-3rd in shutouts
1993-94: N/A for wins, GAA, save pct., shutouts
1994-95: Did not meet GP requirement
1995-96: t-9th in wins
1996-97: Did not meet GP requirement
1997-98: t-6th in wins, 3rd in GAA, 2nd in save pct., 6th in shutouts
1998-99: N/A for wins, GAA, save pct., shutouts
1999-00: Did not meet GP requirement

---

Goaltending stats vs. backups (note: "pts/gm" figure is measured by "gm = mins/60 - not tradition "GP" figure)

1988-89: 44 GP: 1.07 pts/gm, 4.04 GAA, .888 save pct., 0 shutouts
Backups (3): 49 GP: 1.09 pts/gm, 4.50 GAA, .871 save pct., 0 shutouts

1989-90: 24 GP: 0.79 pts/gm, 4.68 GAA, .865 save pct., 0 shutouts
Others (2): 67 GP: 0.93 pts/gm, 4.26 GAA, .870 save pct., 1 shutout

1990-91: 48 GP: 1.24 pts/gm, 3.59 GAA, .896 save pct., 1 shutout
Backups (2): 43 GP: 0.89 pts/gm, 3.97 GAA, .879 save pct., 0 shutouts

1991-92: 57 GP: 1.06 pts/gm, 3.53 GAA, .885 save pct., 1 shutout
Backups (3): 32 GP: 1.11 pts/gm, 4.13 GAA, .871 save pct., 0 shutouts

1992-93: 63 GP: 1.48 pts/gm, 3.01 GAA, .901 save pct., 4 shutouts
Backup: 25 GP: 1.23 pts/gm, 3.42 GAA, .887 save pct., 0 shutouts

1993-94: 44 GP: 1.19 pts/gm, 3.36 GAA, .893 save pct., 2 shutouts
Backup: 46 GP: 1.19 pts/gm, 3.29 GAA, .895 save pct., 1 shutout

1994-95: N/A - 2 games

1995-96: 49 GP: 1.29 pts/gm, 3.43 GAA, .902 save pct., 2 shutouts
Backup: 37 GP: 1.18 pts/gm, 3.24 GAA, .905 save pct., 3 shutouts

1996-97: N/A - 5 games

1997-98: 63 GP: 1.27 pts/gm, 2.07 GAA, .922 save pct., 7 shutouts
Backups (2): 32 GP: 0.94 pts/gm, 2.22 GAA, .915 save pct., 0 shutouts

1998-99: 43 GP: 1.07 pts/gm, 2.55 GAA, .901 save pct., 4 shutouts
Backups (2): 54 GP: 1.10 pts/gm, 2.63 GAA, .896 save pct., 5 shutouts

1999-00: 18 GP: 0.83 pts/gm, 3.17 GAA, .881 save pct., 1 shutout
Others (3): 78 GP: 1.03 pts/gm, 2.69 GAA, .863 save pct., 3 shutouts

In conjunction with coaching changes, usually necessitated by the loss of Mario Lemieux for various reasons, Barrasso responded very well to defensive minded teams (oh really?). In 1992-93, when Lemieux wasn't around for a good stretch, the team tightened up tremendously and Barrasso had a terrific year. In 1998, when Lemieux retired, the team hired drill sargeant Kevin Constantine to bring some defense to the table for the team. Once again, Barrasso was off the charts. In those situations also, it's important to note, that Barrasso got the lion's share of games. Given Barrasso's personality, he probably didn't want a backup goalie at all. And when he was in command of his crease, his play improved. So it's a chicken or the egg conundrum with Barrasso: did he play better to get more games? Or did he play better because he got more games? It doesn't help the mystery that the '93 and '98 Pens were two of the times in the Barrasso era where the Penguins weren't fun n' gun the entire season basically. So, add that to the equation. Did Barrasso's numbers go up because he played more or because the team played better defense?

It is important to note that Barrasso made the transition between eras. Something Fleury and Binkley did not have to do necessarily. Barrasso did his major development and early NHL work in the 80's - a time when goaltending had not kept up with the rest of the league. Historically speaking, there are not many top-50 goalies in history that played in the 80's...less than any other time in noted history it seems. And that's not a statistical claim, it's based on contemporary observation. Many of these goalies from the time struggled to make the transition from firewagon hockey (dead: ~1993) to the more structured, positionally-based goaltending of the mid and late 90's. Barrasso succeeded in transitioning and adaptation. Conversely, he failed to do it consistently and failed to make meaningful playoff in-roads after the era died.

His backups were of NHL quality and one of his consistent tandem mates is among the best backups in the league at the time I do believe. That's a product of Scotty Bowman (via Toe Blake), who was a terrific goalie manager - a trait he passed on to his disciples. Tangental point on that, briefly, here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59087&p=2217369#p2217369

---

Legends of Hockey wrote:Pittsburgh's powerful offense needed some defensive help and having Barrasso in the crease was a major piece of the championship puzzle for the Penguins. In 1991 and 1992 Pittsburgh won the Stanley Cup, due in large part to Barrasso's outstanding play in the net. ||| During the 1996 playoffs there were flashes of the old brilliance and in particular in the Penguins' series against the Florida Panthers. Barrasso later became the first American born goalie to win 300 career NHL games.


Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - May 25, 1991 wrote:Barrasso's stellar, often spectacular goaltending has been a key ingredient in the Penguins' drive to the Cup... ||| Here's something that you hear a lot: "Yeah, the Penguins won, 3-2, but they would have lost, 8-3, if not for Barrasso in goal."


New York Times - May 25, 1991 wrote:Tom Barrasso has been of Pittsburgh's better players.


Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - May 27, 1991 wrote:Barrasso played Game 6 against the Minnesota North Stars Saturday night as if it were his last game. He took one for the team - a shot of pain-killer to the groin - then stood up to the North Stars' Neal Broten, who ran him in the opening seconds, stood up to 39 shots, stood up to his critics who long tormented him by saying he can't win the big games.

For a guy who was a questionable starter - the missed the final two periods of Game 5 Thursday night with a pulled groin muscle - Barrasso was at the top of the Penguins' long list of heroes in their 8-0 Cup-clinching victory.

...

The shutout, the first in the finals since 1986, was fairly indicative of Barrasso's play in the postseason. He finishes with a 12-7 record and had the best goals-against average (2.60) and save percentage (.919) of the playoff goaltenders. He easily could have won the Conn Smythe MVP award if Mario Lemieux had not played so spectacularly in the final three games against Minnesota.


St. Louis Post-Dispatch - Jun. 3, 1992 wrote:He already had one "Connie Smythe," as he called it, in his trophy case at home. He felt that Penguins goalie Tom Barrasso might have been a better choice this year for the award given to the most valuable player of the Stanley Cup playoffs. "I thought it was Tommy all the way,'' Lemieux said. "He was superb the last three games of the Washington series, when we came back from a 3-1 deficit. "He played unbelievable when we swept Boston. This should have gone to him, that's for sure."

...

Barrasso, 27, finished a distant second in the MVP voting, but he said he didn't feel the least bit slighted.


Editor's note: Never has Conn Smythe Trophy voting been released to my knowledge and I can't think of a time where it was mentioned so specifically before. And I do a fair amount of historical research...
New York Times - Jan. 15, 1993 wrote:Barrasso, 27 years old, has been a key player on the Penguins' successive Stanley Cup championship teams.


New York Times - Apr. 27, 1995 wrote:Barrasso made his first appearance in almost a year. ... He looked his sharpest in the seventh minute of the middle period when he sprawled to his right to stop Stephane Richer and denied MacLean's backhander from the slot a few seconds later.

"Tommy played well and he will probably play again on Sunday," Coach XX XXXXXXXX said of Barrasso. "He made the saves he had to when we needed it." While Barrasso was sharp, the Devils' goaltending was average.


Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - May 21, 1996 wrote:It's easy to say now it was the right move. Tom Barrasso looked for a long time as if he might throw a perfect game against the Florida Panthers last night before settling for a beautiful two-hitter. Of course, it was the right move to start him instead of XXX XXXXXXX. ...[the coach] had no clue how Barrasso would play in his first start in 26 days.

...

"...I've been around goaltenders long enough to know when they're sharp. This guy was sharp. We also needed to get him in there because of the way Florida plays. They like to dump the puck in. Tommy controls the puck very well. We just thought he would give us a better chance to get it out." [Coach]

...

It shouldn't have been such a surpise. Barrasso is a big-time goaltender.

It's funny, much had been made by the media and fans before the game game of his 3-9 record in his previous 12 playoff decisions. It was as if he was completely responsible for those defeats. But that's just revisionist history. When was Barrasso so bad in the playoffs? In '93 against the New York Islanders? Maybe he wasn't right in Game 6 and 7 but it says here the Penguins would have won that series if Mario Lemieux hadn't had a bad back or Kevin Stevens hadn't gone down early in game 7. Did Barrasso stink against Washington in '94? The Capitals scored three or fewer goals in four of those six games. Last spring against Washington? Yeah, he was terrible in his one start but he never should have played. He missed all but two regular season games after wrist surgery. How about this spring against Washington? I thought Barrasso played well in the 6-4 loss in game 1, strange as that might sound. He was bad in Game 2 but came back to win Game 3, 4-1, "by himself," to quote [coach].

No offense to XXXXXXX, but Barrasso is the better goaltender. There is a reason he makes $2.5 million and has two Stanley Cup rings.


Beaver County Times - Mar. 15, 2000 wrote:In his own way, Barrasso was a hockey version of Barry Bonds, a gifted player who seemed to havee a compulsion to make people not like him. Barrasso was everything his advance billing said he could be: arrogant, difficult, intelligent, and very talented. He was just 23 when the Penguins were able to get him because he'd worn out his welcome in Buffalo.


The Pittsburgh Press - Mar. 31, 1989 wrote:Penguins goalie Tom Barrasso was subjected to 48 shots, roughly two of which did not constitute a serious scoring threat.||| ...the Penguins allowed the Whalers to pepper goalie Tom Barrasso with 48 shots and pester him with enough three-on-two break to fill a 90-minute practice session...


The Pittsburgh Press - Nov. 7, 1990 wrote:One guy Calgary couldn't beat very often was goalie Tom Barrasso, who began the game as XXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX's backup and left it as the No. 3 star after stopping 26 of 27 shots in the final two periods. The words "Barrasso" and "backup" rarely appear in the same paragraph, but XXXXXXXXXX's strong play this season earned him a tenuous grip on the No. 1 job. Barrasso has head the locker-room whispers that he might be traded, but they don't appear to bother him.


LCS Hockey Guide - Jul. 15, 1994 wrote:He has to find a way to replace an aging defensive corp to help out Tom Barrasso (who had an excellent playoff series) in net and create a balanced offense that can be more efficient in the playoffs.


Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Nov. 14, 1988 wrote:"...you have to give quality if you want to get quality." [Tony Esposito on the trade]. Still, if Barrasso pans out and the Penguins' goaltending situation is set for the next decade, te steep price tag will have been worth it.

...

Despite his reputation for arrogance and disruption, Barrasso is widely recognized as a top-flight talent. ...But Barrasso has been criticized for, among other things, an unwillingness to accept criticism. And he was reportedly upset this season when Daren Puppa beat him out as the Sabres' No. 1 goaltender. "I won't deny that that wasn't a problem and a factor," Buffalo GM Gerry Meehan told reporters.

But Esposito, a Hall of Famer who was hired as GM in April...said he prefers Barrasso to Moog. "That's not a very fair question," he told a reporter, "but I rate Barrasso a better goalie. Moog was a backup. I was after a bona fide No. 1 goaltender. I think he's the man."


The Pittsburgh Press - Nov. 13, 1988 wrote:Even Barrasso's critics acknowledge he is one of the finest goalies in the NHL, despite his history of mediocre playoff performances.


On the Penguins more defensive game that I referenced above...

The Vindicator - Dec. 2, 1997 wrote:Left off the U.S. Olympic Team, Pittsburgh Penguins goalie Tom Barrasso took out his frustrations on the Montreal Canadiens. "...Tom's one of the best U.S. goalies. I don't know why he wasn't picked." [coach XXXXX XXXXXXXXXX]

...

Good defense: The Penguins, once an offensive juggernautled by Mario Lemieux, have focused their attention on playing tight defense since Lemieux's retirement following last season. Just ask the Canadiens. "They're a club that's really improved defensively," Montreal center Vincent Damphousse said. "They scored that goal in the third period, then they shut us down." - "They're playing better as a team and their coaching staff has them playing better defensively," Canadiens forward Shayne Corson said. "They're playing good hockey and they're a tough team right now."

"Now, we play defense, we play trap and it's tough to beat. We don't have the talent anymore..." [Jagr]


Observer Reporter - Feb. 12, 1993 wrote:Headline: Penguins Discover Defensive Rhythm - Haven't allowed a goal in 140 minutes.

Will the Penguins ever allow another goal? Defenseman Larry Murphy just laughed but the rest of the National Hockey League probably finds little humor in Pittsburgh's recent defensive play. Shifting gears without Mario Lemieux in the lineup, the Penguins have become the NHL's fourth-best defensive team after delivering back-to-back shutouts of Boston and New York - a franchise first.

"Everybody realizes without Mario that we're not going to score as much. The only way we can continue to win is if we cut down our goals against," says Murphy. "Everybody's made a conscious effort to improve in that area."

With Lemieux in the lineup over the first 41 games of the season, the Penguins allowed an average of 31.4 shots and 3.36 goals per agme. In 14 games without their captain, the guy who makes their incomparable run-and-gun game go, the Penguins are allowing an average of 28.9 shots and 2.71 goals per game. And they are 8-5-1.

This is precisely the kind of game coach XXXXXX XXXXXX had in mind when Lemieux was diagnosed with Hodgkin's Disease. "We've really shut down a lot of teams, some pretty good teams, too," XXXXXX said Thursday. "The goaltending has been outstanding. We have our defense intact, and we've been able to go with more players up front."

The forwards, meanwhile, have not balked at accepting more defensive responsibility, a fact that was plainly evident in the past two games. It isn't easy to play a tighter game, but the Penguins aren't looking for the easy way out.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby mikey287 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:49 pm

Les Binkley

Position: Goaltender
6'0" / 175 lbs.
Catches: Right

As a Penguin (1967-1972): 196 GP - 58 wins, 94 losses, 34 ties - 3.12 GAA, .897 save pct., 11 shutouts - playoffs: 7 GP - 5 wins, 2 losses - 2.10 GAA, .924 save pct., 0 shutouts

In Penguins history: 5th in GP - 6th in wins, 4th in GAA, 5th* in save pct., 3rd in shutouts

* - I'm not 100% sure of this yet, but I think that's how it will turn out.

5 full seasons

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Award Voting

All-Star Voting: 8th

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Goaltending stats vs. the league: [top-6 finishes only] (added save pct. numbers since they probably can't be found in many places - league average added for comparison).

1967-68: t-6th in Wins, t-2nd in shutouts
- Binkley: .905 - League Avg: .910
1968-69: N/A for wins, GAA, save pct., shutouts
- Binkley: .902 - League Avg: .908
1969-70: N/A for wins, GAA, save pct., shutouts
- Binkley: .886 - League Avg: .912
1970-71: N/A for wins, GAA, save pct., shutouts
- Binkley: .900 - League Avg: .903
1971-72: N/A for wins, GAA, save pct., shutouts
- Binkley: .879 - League Avg: .902

Now, while I was doing this I realized how unfair this was and I knew the results would be poor going in...the league had just expanded, the O6 teams were powerhouses, you can't expect expansion teams to hang with them like that when they were made up O6 rejects and minor leaguers. See below.
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Goaltending stats vs. expansion teams: [top-5 finishes only; which is a more than fair stretch, but I'm allowing for it because many teams used many goalies in this time.] Of note, this is NOT Binkley vs. expansion opponents. This is Binkley's season totals vs. the season totals of other expansion goalies. Further note, "expansion avg. save pct." will not be calculated due to time restraints.

1967-68: 2nd in Wins, t-1st in shutouts
1968-69: N/A for wins, GAA, save pct., shutouts
1969-70: t-3rd in shutouts
1970-71: t-4th in shutouts
1971-72: N/A for wins, GAA, save pct., shutouts

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Goaltending stats vs. backups (note: "pts/gm" figure is measured by "gm = mins/60 - not tradition "GP" figure)

1967-68: 54 GP: 0.96 pts/gm, 2.88 GAA, .905 save pct., 6 shutouts
Backup: 25 GP: 0.79 pts/gm, 2.86 GAA, .909 save pct., 1 shutout

1968-69: 50 GP: 0.58 pts/gm, 3.29 GAA, .902 save pct., 0 shutouts
Backup: 30 GP: 0.82 pts/gm, 3.22 GAA, .908 save pct., 2 shutouts

1969-70: 27 GP: 0.85 pts/gm, 3.21 GAA, .887 save pct., 3 shutouts
Others (2): 54 GP: 0.84 pts/gm, 3.02 GAA, .899 save pct., 2 shutouts

1970-71: 34 GP: 1.03 pts/gm, 2.86 GAA, .900 save pct., 2 shutouts
Others (2): 53 GP: 0.64 pts/gm, 3.22 GAA, .892 save pct., 2 shutouts

1971-72: 31 GP: 0.68 pts/gm, 3.51 GAA, .879 save pct., 0 shutouts
Others (2): 55 GP: 0.94 pts/gm, 3.03 GAA, .897 save pct., 1 shutout

If I had to make any inference from the numbers - which on the whole, are similar to his fellow creasemates - is that he was talented but inconsistent. Look at 1968 for example - 2.88 and 6 shutouts. But his backup maintained a similar GAA with only 1 shutout. What does that say about the amount of goals Binkley gave up in "non-shutouts" (see: Jim Carey's Vezina win in 1996).

Further research will be required given that face value numbers can be interpreted many different ways when you have essentially minor league clubs playing established powerhouses. Discussion fit for its own post(s) and not Binkley's profile.

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Legends of Hockey wrote:...he finally made it thanks to expansion in 1967. Binkley spent 5 seasons with the Pens, posting respectable numbers for a less than great team during that time.

...

[Ed. note: Binkley goes on to say that he left for the Pens for the WHA for the money...as a career minor leaguer, you can't really blame him. Also, Binkley was stapled to the bench in the 1972 playoffs - the Pens were swept.


The Pittsburgh Press - Oct. 18, 1968 wrote:Two years ago, Les Binkley, playing with last-place San Diego in the Western Hockey League, stopped the puck so often the fans preached, "Only the Lord saves more than Binkley." It was like San Diego all over again for Binkley last night.


Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Feb. 27, 1968 wrote:Les Binkley, in the nets that night, was uncanny.


New York Times - Jan. 29, 1968 wrote:Les Binkley's spectacular goaltending...


The News-Dispatch - Mar. 4, 1971 wrote:None of Montreal's 33 shots found the net as Pittsburgh goalie Les Binkley shut off the Eastern Division's third place team.


The Pittsburgh Press - Feb. 26, 1968 wrote:Headline: 'Stonewall' Binkley Frustrates Flyers, Saves Penguins' Win - ...after the Penguins tripped the Flyers, 2-1, at the Spectrum last night. And it was all Les Binkley's fault. The 31-year-old netminder fractured a near-sellout crowd of 14,418 - and [Brit] Selby, too - with two brilliant saves to preserve the triumph. ||| The exhausting defensive work of Binkley and the Penguins paid off... ||| Binkley had compiled a 1.66 average for six previous games in the Philadelphia series. All he had to show for it were three loss and three ties.

"He played as good against us as any goaltender this year," said Pat Hannigan, another Flyer forward.

"I played with him five or six years (at Cleveland)," Philadelphia Right Wing Bill Sutherland mentioned. "He gets better every time I see him."

"I used to go to a lot of banquets in Cleveland," [Larry] Zeidel said, "and the question people asked the most was, 'Why aren't the Barons in the National Hockey League?'" "I told them we had a lot of players who were as good or better than some NHL players and I always used Binkley as one of the examples. I used to tell them that he had a better minor league record than Gump Worsley."



Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Apr. 10, 1970 wrote:In the final analysis, it was the great goal-keeping of Les Binkley which kept the Penguins within striking distance...


The News-Dispatch - Nov. 29, 1968 wrote:Les Binkley, one of the top goalies in the National Hockey League, Thursday turned back 37 shots by the Chicago Black Hawks...


Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Oct. 14, 1968 wrote:Goalie Les Binkley stood like Marshall Foche at Argonne in stopping Jean Beliveau & Company from denting the cords. More of this brand of hockey and the Penguins will take over from the Pirates, Steelers and Pitt. It won't be hard to do so.


The Pittsburgh Press - Mar. 12, 1972 wrote:Goalie Les Binkley, often sensational under pressure, kept the Bruins from ever moving to within two goals...


The Pittsburgh Press - Apr. 1, 1969 wrote:XXXXX indicated one of the three Penguin goalies will be traded if Marv Edwards performs well for Baltimore in the American League playoffs. The Penguins are strongest in goal with Les Binkley, XXX XXXXX and Edwards, but can protect only two for the draft. "I think I'd be foolish to let one of them get picked," the general manager said.


Editor's Note: The Penguins did NOT protect Binkley in the 1972 Expansion Draft.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby meow on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:06 pm

Stonewall Binkley, eh? Haha
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby Gaucho on Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:47 pm

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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby meow on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:02 pm

Can we trade?
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby Rylan on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:06 pm

Mikey proposed to trade with me meow if that means anything...
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby Gaucho on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:08 pm

My panda for Saint Ron?
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby meow on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:10 pm

Rylan wrote:Mikey proposed to trade with me meow if that means anything...

That's good enough for me.
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Re: Pittsburgh Penguins All-Time Draft - (Round 4)

Postby dman66 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:09 pm

Sorry for the delay everyone. Last night was light up night in Baltimore so we went out for that. Probably drank too much, but luckily only a half day at work.

With the 24th selection in the Pens All Time Draft, the Left Wing Locks are pleased to select:

Defenseman - #3 Ron Stackhouse

Image

6-3, 210lbs
Shoots - R

Appeared in the 1980 All Star Game

Rank among Pens defenseman in history:
1st in games played
T-3rd in goals
2nd in assists
2nd in points
11th in points per game

Solid defenseman from everything I've been able to read. Pittsburgh crowd really gave him a hard time, and he hasn't been the only big dman to get crap for not being physical. Gives me another puck moving, offensive dman.

Really hoping I get his purse along with the draft pick :wink:
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