OFFICIAL GDT: PENS at Rangers, 1/20/13

[thepittman]

I'm not saying Tangradi looks good out there, but what happens if Bennett takes more than 2 games to adjust to being a top-six forward in the NHL? Do we go back to Tangradi or call up Veilleux?

Mikey come on. This is not 2 games. This kid has a three year track record of not being able to step up in any situation on any line and has faded in the AHL as well. The argument was that he is still young and he never got a chance. He has now played two games with Geno and Neal and contributed nothing.

I read in another of your posts how he is perhaps overwhelmed by the enormity of this?

I don't know why you or anyone would be making excuses for him, but with you as an aspiring scout - don't you look for kids who rise to the occassion? This guy is a complete dud, and stop bringing up Mike Knuble. That is a one in tens of thousands story and you could use it to justify playing a folding chair.

As I correctly pointed out in another thread, if youth and size were a reason to hand a bum a top 6 audition Steve McIntyre should have gotten his back when.

Your point would make sense if there was some kind of pressure that a change is needed. Right now the Pens are off to a smooth start, don't mess with success.

[The Snapshot]

Its real simple. Tangradi doesn't have NHL skating, he doesn't have NHL hands, he doesn't seem to have any hockey sense. He is not physical. So far I have not seen him demonstrate any redeeming qualities. There are plenty of players who show glimpses or promise or potential, and never make it. He doesn't stand a chance.

Absolutely the only thing separating him from any other player in WB, was his draft position and how he was acquired. He certainly has never demonstrated anything on the ice to warrant the interest or playing time he has received.

This is what I've been saying for the last three seasons now. A simple flash of potential. There is none to flash.

I watch this kid go into a corner, finish nothing and then come out of the corner like a 3 pack a day smoker. His conditioning is crap to go with his complete lack of talent. Watch him skate. It isn't just that he is slow, but he is so stiff in his torso that he can't adjust laterally at all.

My biggest issue with his "chance" is that he is being handed something he hasn't even come close to earning. His performances in camps and in the minors demonstrates regression, not progression warranting a chance like this. It is a complete joke that he was handed this. It would drive some of the posters here nuts if the bosses nephew were handed a promotion over them against all merit - yet these folks just accept that he has to be given 8-10 games.

Neal has played extremely well in these two games. Malkin was much better tonight. Anything less than a stiff would have had some positive contribution while being on the ice with them.

[The Snapshot]

I'm not saying Tangradi looks good out there, but what happens if Bennett takes more than 2 games to adjust to being a top-six forward in the NHL? Do we go back to Tangradi or call up Veilleux?

Mikey come on. This is not 2 games. This kid has a three year track record of not being able to step up in any situation on any line and has faded in the AHL as well. The argument was that he is still young and he never got a chance. He has now played two games with Geno and Neal and contributed nothing.

I read in another of your posts how he is perhaps overwhelmed by the enormity of this?

I don't know why you or anyone would be making excuses for him, but with you as an aspiring scout - don't you look for kids who rise to the occassion? This guy is a complete dud, and stop bringing up Mike Knuble. That is a one in tens of thousands story and you could use it to justify playing a folding chair.

As I correctly pointed out in another thread, if youth and size were a reason to hand a bum a top 6 audition Steve McIntyre should have gotten his back when.

Your point would make sense if there was some kind of pressure that a change is needed. Right now the Pens are off to a smooth start, don't mess with success.

My point makes sense whether we NEED to make a change or not. He has not, and continues to not deserve his spot. I'm happy we are winning despite his vacuum effect on the line. If he makes a few bad passes like Jeffrey can we bench him then?

[thepittman]

I'm not saying Tangradi looks good out there, but what happens if Bennett takes more than 2 games to adjust to being a top-six forward in the NHL? Do we go back to Tangradi or call up Veilleux?

Mikey come on. This is not 2 games. This kid has a three year track record of not being able to step up in any situation on any line and has faded in the AHL as well. The argument was that he is still young and he never got a chance. He has now played two games with Geno and Neal and contributed nothing.

I read in another of your posts how he is perhaps overwhelmed by the enormity of this?

I don't know why you or anyone would be making excuses for him, but with you as an aspiring scout - don't you look for kids who rise to the occassion? This guy is a complete dud, and stop bringing up Mike Knuble. That is a one in tens of thousands story and you could use it to justify playing a folding chair.

As I correctly pointed out in another thread, if youth and size were a reason to hand a bum a top 6 audition Steve McIntyre should have gotten his back when.

Your point would make sense if there was some kind of pressure that a change is needed. Right now the Pens are off to a smooth start, don't mess with success.

My point makes sense whether we NEED to make a change or not. He has not, and continues to not deserve his spot. I'm happy we are winning despite his vacuum effect on the line. If he makes a few bad passes like Jeffrey can we bench him then?

No, because you're not HCDB

[Sarcastic]

Martin had a super good play that was kind of a reversal from the one I wasn't happy with in the Flyers game. He confronted the Ranger and tied him up, preventing him from getting to the puck by our net. That's all I ask. To actually engage players when needed.

Nice game.

[marek]

Tangradi isn't a problem, I still fail to see why you guys are crucifying him already. You would think that he was potting goals into his own net every game.

I mean, it sucks, the poor kid must be scared to death out there. It's a rush-rush thing. One day you're a line with Wyatt Smith or whoever down in the AHL, next thing you know you're on national television in your hometown playing on the top line of the top team in the top league in the world...some players might jump to that and go, "yeah, well, watch this!" and some might go out there and just try not to make an ass of themselves...Tangradi is the latter. These coaches had six days to throw it all together, no preseason, no nothing...let the coaching staff get a hold of the situation before they instruct the GM to dump a player...

If we got to 1-5-1 and Malkin had 3 points on the year because Tangradi was weighing him down, then yeah, ok, let's figure out a new plan...but we're 2-0, 9:4, we're looking alright after two tough road games back to back...there's no panic, there's no "back to the drawing board", it's all positive, it's all improvement from the coaching staff to the players. Tweaks, minor adjustments and forward progress. The wheel does not need re-inventing.

If Tangradi still looks completely useless in game 6, game 8, game 10 and there's absolutely nothing being added to his game, well, then you need to re-evaluate what the game plan is. He doesn't have to have 7 points in his next 5 games to be considered a success, he needs to show that there's a spark, a glimmer of hope, a chance of potential, a chance for growth. I'd agree the prospects of that are dim at the moment, but we invested in this kid, let's give it a real try before we throw it in the dumpster after two wins...

Exactly... How long did it take for Neal (who obviously has far more skill than tangradi) to develop chemistry with malkin??? somewhere around 30 games.

[The Snapshot]

Tangradi isn't a problem, I still fail to see why you guys are crucifying him already. You would think that he was potting goals into his own net every game.

I mean, it sucks, the poor kid must be scared to death out there. It's a rush-rush thing. One day you're a line with Wyatt Smith or whoever down in the AHL, next thing you know you're on national television in your hometown playing on the top line of the top team in the top league in the world...some players might jump to that and go, "yeah, well, watch this!" and some might go out there and just try not to make an ass of themselves...Tangradi is the latter. These coaches had six days to throw it all together, no preseason, no nothing...let the coaching staff get a hold of the situation before they instruct the GM to dump a player...

If we got to 1-5-1 and Malkin had 3 points on the year because Tangradi was weighing him down, then yeah, ok, let's figure out a new plan...but we're 2-0, 9:4, we're looking alright after two tough road games back to back...there's no panic, there's no "back to the drawing board", it's all positive, it's all improvement from the coaching staff to the players. Tweaks, minor adjustments and forward progress. The wheel does not need re-inventing.

If Tangradi still looks completely useless in game 6, game 8, game 10 and there's absolutely nothing being added to his game, well, then you need to re-evaluate what the game plan is. He doesn't have to have 7 points in his next 5 games to be considered a success, he needs to show that there's a spark, a glimmer of hope, a chance of potential, a chance for growth. I'd agree the prospects of that are dim at the moment, but we invested in this kid, let's give it a real try before we throw it in the dumpster after two wins...

Exactly... How long did it take for Neal (who obviously has far more skill than tangradi) to develop chemistry with malkin??? somewhere around 30 games.

Neal was snake bitten for that stretch run, but he was getting and generating chances all along.

[The Snapshot]

I'm not saying Tangradi looks good out there, but what happens if Bennett takes more than 2 games to adjust to being a top-six forward in the NHL? Do we go back to Tangradi or call up Veilleux?

Mikey come on. This is not 2 games. This kid has a three year track record of not being able to step up in any situation on any line and has faded in the AHL as well. The argument was that he is still young and he never got a chance. He has now played two games with Geno and Neal and contributed nothing.

I read in another of your posts how he is perhaps overwhelmed by the enormity of this?

I don't know why you or anyone would be making excuses for him, but with you as an aspiring scout - don't you look for kids who rise to the occassion? This guy is a complete dud, and stop bringing up Mike Knuble. That is a one in tens of thousands story and you could use it to justify playing a folding chair.

As I correctly pointed out in another thread, if youth and size were a reason to hand a bum a top 6 audition Steve McIntyre should have gotten his back when.

Your point would make sense if there was some kind of pressure that a change is needed. Right now the Pens are off to a smooth start, don't mess with success.

My point makes sense whether we NEED to make a change or not. He has not, and continues to not deserve his spot. I'm happy we are winning despite his vacuum effect on the line. If he makes a few bad passes like Jeffrey can we bench him then?

No, because you're not HCDB

Yeah HCDB proved a lot the last two playoffs seasons. He should definitely be beyond question, unless it is why Kennedy keeps scoring on the third line, or why Vitale was not in the game 1 lineup.

The facts are that there is no data to support him getting this chance.

[Godric]

Tangradi isn't a problem, I still fail to see why you guys are crucifying him already. You would think that he was potting goals into his own net every game.

I mean, it sucks, the poor kid must be scared to death out there. It's a rush-rush thing. One day you're a line with Wyatt Smith or whoever down in the AHL, next thing you know you're on national television in your hometown playing on the top line of the top team in the top league in the world...some players might jump to that and go, "yeah, well, watch this!" and some might go out there and just try not to make an ass of themselves...Tangradi is the latter. These coaches had six days to throw it all together, no preseason, no nothing...let the coaching staff get a hold of the situation before they instruct the GM to dump a player...

If we got to 1-5-1 and Malkin had 3 points on the year because Tangradi was weighing him down, then yeah, ok, let's figure out a new plan...but we're 2-0, 9:4, we're looking alright after two tough road games back to back...there's no panic, there's no "back to the drawing board", it's all positive, it's all improvement from the coaching staff to the players. Tweaks, minor adjustments and forward progress. The wheel does not need re-inventing.

If Tangradi still looks completely useless in game 6, game 8, game 10 and there's absolutely nothing being added to his game, well, then you need to re-evaluate what the game plan is. He doesn't have to have 7 points in his next 5 games to be considered a success, he needs to show that there's a spark, a glimmer of hope, a chance of potential, a chance for growth. I'd agree the prospects of that are dim at the moment, but we invested in this kid, let's give it a real try before we throw it in the dumpster after two wins...

Mr. Farkas, I just want to say I think it makes for excellent reading whenever you take a controversial opinion on a topic that everyone seems to have an opinion. It might be *gasp* admirable

keep it up

[Pens4Life]

Give Tangradi 10 - 15 games on the Malkin line before throwing in the towel. Make no mistake, this is his shot, and if he misses, we move on. But give him a fair shake. After that, we try jeffrey, then bennett, and if no one sticks we trade at the deadline. Until then, we wait and see

I agree,give him at least 10 games.. Team didnt have a real preparation period or camp as we are used to.. Give him a little bit more time.

Vokoun,Neal and Geno

[mikey287]

I'm not saying Tangradi looks good out there, but what happens if Bennett takes more than 2 games to adjust to being a top-six forward in the NHL? Do we go back to Tangradi or call up Veilleux?

Mikey come on. This is not 2 games. This kid has a three year track record of not being able to step up in any situation on any line and has faded in the AHL as well. The argument was that he is still young and he never got a chance. He has now played two games with Geno and Neal and contributed nothing.

I read in another of your posts how he is perhaps overwhelmed by the enormity of this?

I don't know why you or anyone would be making excuses for him, but with you as an aspiring scout - don't you look for kids who rise to the occassion? This guy is a complete dud, and stop bringing up Mike Knuble. That is a one in tens of thousands story and you could use it to justify playing a folding chair.

As I correctly pointed out in another thread, if youth and size were a reason to hand a bum a top 6 audition Steve McIntyre should have gotten his back when.

Snapper, you're not wrong. I don't know what my point is really...I'd like to think he can mash it together as a complimentary finisher that wins board battles, he's not very skilled, he's not gonna be a flying 40-goal man...honestly, if these were the first two games I had ever seen from him, I'd put him down as "no draft" but I haven't seen a God dang thing from him really...but I'd like to see him get one, get the weight off of his shoulders and see what he can do with a little confidence. He doesn't look totally clear on what his role is, the game is moving too fast for him and he's just trying not to make a mistake. That's something you have to realize too...this isn't Eric Tangradi, this is an understudy...this is Keanu Reeves playing Jean Valjean...

I'd just like to see him with a bee in his bonnet and feather in his cap here before I throw it in the garbage. This is the fourth year we've been working with Eric, we could stand let it play itself out...but honestly, I'm not even trying to be a Tangradi apologist (because, I don't see it right now, I don't), I just think that while he's here and we're doing well, why not? What if something clicks and he becomes a passable complimentary guy...what do we have to lose? No one is waiting in line at the gate to get that spot in the lineup right now anyway...

[sil]

...we're looking alright after two tough road games back to back...there's no panic, there's no "back to the drawing board", it's all positive, it's all improvement from the coaching staff to the players. Tweaks, minor adjustments and forward progress. The wheel does not need re-inventing...

Idk, from the stuff I'm reading all over LGP, I'm bettin' we have some quota or level of negativity we have to make sure gets hit!

[k0la]

Takes a few games for other teams to give up on their "prospects" too, so guess there won't be anyone to trade with the first weeks.
Someone might get waived when clubs secure free agents they hadn't been able to sign yet?

[darkstar57]

I know its early, but the rangers don't really impress me, sounds dumb, but if you can't get up for the second game of the season, in your home opener, against a major division rival you have problems. They where lifeless in that game. They should have come out buzzing in the first period and they didn't, plus when you have rupp and asham on your team, with faster teams you are pretty much going to be playing three lines because they can't keep up with the speedy guys.

I wonder if marc staal is going to force a trade this offseason to the canes

[Beveridge]

It was also the 2nd game after only having a week to prepare for games and having just played the night before. Yes, I know Pens played afternoon before but players and teams are going to look sluggish first couple weeks.

If teams are like this by February 1, then it's a legit issue.

[RisslingsMissingTeeth]

Give Tangradi 10 - 15 games on the Malkin line before throwing in the towel. Make no mistake, this is his shot, and if he misses, we move on. But give him a fair shake. After that, we try jeffrey, then bennett, and if no one sticks we trade at the deadline. Until then, we wait and see

I agree,give him at least 10 games.. Team didnt have a real preparation period or camp as we are used to.. Give him a little bit more time.

Vokoun,Neal and Geno

My problem with this line of thinking is that those are 10-15 games where a legit player could be building chemistry. Just like in life, you don't throw good money after bad, cut bait and keep fishing. (insert other cliches here)

[FLPensFan]

I'm not saying Tangradi looks good out there, but what happens if Bennett takes more than 2 games to adjust to being a top-six forward in the NHL? Do we go back to Tangradi or call up Veilleux?

Mikey come on. This is not 2 games. This kid has a three year track record of not being able to step up in any situation on any line and has faded in the AHL as well. The argument was that he is still young and he never got a chance. He has now played two games with Geno and Neal and contributed nothing.

I read in another of your posts how he is perhaps overwhelmed by the enormity of this?

I don't know why you or anyone would be making excuses for him, but with you as an aspiring scout - don't you look for kids who rise to the occassion? This guy is a complete dud, and stop bringing up Mike Knuble. That is a one in tens of thousands story and you could use it to justify playing a folding chair.

As I correctly pointed out in another thread, if youth and size were a reason to hand a bum a top 6 audition Steve McIntyre should have gotten his back when.

This is kind of why I started my "discussion point." I realize it is 2 games, but this is his 3rd season of getting some playing time. Every year, I keep hearing how much he has improved, but I just don't see it. It's not that he's doing poorly, he's just not doing much of anything but skating around. I don't see him getting into positions to have a chance to score, I don't see him banging bodies to help setup plays. He's just skating around out there. It will take a few more games for me to look more closely, but I haven't noticed any progression in his game from last year. Dustin Jeffrey seems to have better offensive skills, hockey sense, and a better skater. Not lobbying for Jeffrey there either. Just think this is the last year for the Eric Tangradi project, and I'd lose as much sleep if we lost him on waivers as I did losing Brian Strait...ZERO.

[Three Stars]

I know its early, but the rangers don't really impress me, sounds dumb, but if you can't get up for the second game of the season, in your home opener, against a major division rival you have problems. They where lifeless in that game. They should have come out buzzing in the first period and they didn't, plus when you have rupp and asham on your team, with faster teams you are pretty much going to be playing three lines because they can't keep up with the speedy guys.

I wonder if marc staal is going to force a trade this offseason to the canes

I wonder if Rick Nash will show evidence of "big fish in small pond" syndrome. The Rangers certainly have a tendency to stack superstars and damn the chemistry.

[sniper]

I know its early, but the rangers don't really impress me, sounds dumb, but if you can't get up for the second game of the season, in your home opener, against a major division rival you have problems. They where lifeless in that game. They should have come out buzzing in the first period and they didn't, plus when you have rupp and asham on your team, with faster teams you are pretty much going to be playing three lines because they can't keep up with the speedy guys.

I wonder if marc staal is going to force a trade this offseason to the canes

I said in another thread I don't like their offensive depth. Last years points per game in ()

Nash (.72) Richards (.80) Gaborik (.93)
Hagelin (.59) Stepan (.62) Callahan (.71)
Kreider (-) Boyle (.32) Pyatt (.26)
Rupp (.08) Halpern (.23) Asham (.25)

Del Zotto (.53) Staal (.11)
Girardi (.35) McDonagh (.39)
Stralman (.34) Bickel (.18)

They lost Anisimov (.46), Dubinsky (.44), Fedotenko (.26), Prust (.21), Mitchell (.27) from last years roster.

Nash's p/g will probably increase in NY. That second line looks super weak to me. They could drop one of the top three guys down to the second line, but I still don't like their offensive depth. Callahan is their 4th best offensive player. He scored 0.71 points per game last year. Pascal Dupuis scored .72 points per game last year without Crosby as a line mate for most of the year or power play time. Dupuis had 1 power play point compared to Callahan's 17. The third line scores at a rate of most 4th lines (Kreider may help that). Below is the Pens p/g last year.

Kunitz (.74) Crosby (1.68) Dupuis (.72)
Tangradi (.08) Malkin (1.45) Neal (1.01)
Cooke (.46) Sutter (.39) Kennedy (.55)
Glass (.21) Vitale (.21) Adams (.22)

Jeffrey (.23)

Orpik (.25) Martin (.37)
Niskanen (.28) Letang (.82)
Despres (.22) Engelland (.23)

Pens lost Staal (.81), Sullivan (.61), Park (.26), Asham (.25), Michalek (.21)

Obviously the teams have different systems and the Rangers is more defensive, but I don't see enough offense in the Rangers lineup. Just not enough skill after that top line. I expect them to struggle to score all season and if Richards were to get injured I think they are in big, big trouble. Look awfully weak at center. The third pairing defense is also a weakness as you saw when Vitale blew by Bickel.

[The Snapshot]

I want to make it clear to be on record that there are TONS of positives about the Pens start. They have shown in both games that defensively they can take the punch that last season would have started a panic. They have moved the puck much better than their 2 opponents have, and that should only improve as the conditioning does.

They have won two games where neither Crosby or Malkin was dominant (I know Geno had three helpers, but he did not possess the puck like we know he can). Martin looks very different. Letang looks like himself.

Glass is definitely half-full as a 4th liner. Loved his spirited go with, as my friend use to humorously refer to him "one tough Eskimo".

Goaltending was solid in both games.

Our 3rd line may be better than ever, because they seem to have lost nothing while getting a more defensively focused Center.

The only negatives to me have been Tangradi and the 3rd pairing still looking less than perfect. I believe both guys can play better though, because we have seen it from them in the past. It's just really hard for me to ignore the idea of Tangradi deserving this shot.

I didn't want to be painted as the pessimist, because I am always optimistic about the Pens with the team we have. This team has a few areas of concern, but this is definitely a Cup capable squad if it gels the way I believe it can. I just don't see that happening in the Playoffs with Tangradi as a top 6 guy - so I see no reason to waste any time finding the solution there.

[The Snapshot]

Give Tangradi 10 - 15 games on the Malkin line before throwing in the towel. Make no mistake, this is his shot, and if he misses, we move on. But give him a fair shake. After that, we try jeffrey, then bennett, and if no one sticks we trade at the deadline. Until then, we wait and see

I agree,give him at least 10 games.. Team didnt have a real preparation period or camp as we are used to.. Give him a little bit more time.

Vokoun,Neal and Geno

My problem with this line of thinking is that those are 10-15 games where a legit player could be building chemistry. Just like in life, you don't throw good money after bad, cut bait and keep fishing. (insert other cliches here)

Also, Tangradi has been playing all along in WBS (poorly I might add). Chemistry is one thing, but there is no extra effort in his game in what is clearly the biggest chance of his career. He also looks less than amazing in the AHL prior, when everyone in the world including him knows that he was to be given this shot if the league solved the lockout.

A player that was going to do something with that shot would have been leading by example in WBS. He looked like dog poo there.

[littlemoonboot]

It's been too long since I've seen littlemoonboot's artistry!
Man, I love hockey.

Where is LMB? We're gonna need her eventually.

I'M HERE I'M HERE

[Tico Rick]