Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby The Snapshot on Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:03 pm

tfrizz wrote:
The Snapshot wrote:
themethod7 wrote:Side note, not sure how much I should trust Hockey's Future when it comes to talent analysis if this is what they have to say about Tangradi:
Possessing great size and strength, Tangradi is first and foremost a fantastic net-front presence. He knows how to use his large frame in front of the net and can create match-up problems for opposing defensemen. He has gradually developed a similar type of warrior mentality when battling for loose pucks or playing in high-traffic areas of the ice. His on-ice awareness and vision are also above average to good. Tangradi has also demonstrated an outspoken nature which has led him to be a team leader at many stops throughout his young career.

Despite his massive size and surly on-ice disposition, the big winger was a skill-oriented player for much of his junior career and consequentially, has been learning how to play a power forward game in his last three years in the pros. He appears to have finally figured out the power forward game at the NHL level, and now must prove he is worthy of more opportunities and ice time.

Tangradi has been criticized for his flat-footed skating ability and while it surely is not a strength, there is no evidence at this point to suggest it is a major detriment either.


My God that is the stupidest thing I have ever read. It is 99% wrong. The only part that is correct is the flat-footed skating style but even that is wrong in that it isn't a major detriment. It is. It is a MAJOR detriment.


It sounds pretty accurate to how he's played in WBS.

I will argue your point about his skating, though. Even through the first 3 games we've seen that Tangradi's straight-line speed isn't a big issue; he hasn't looked out of place in that manner. Where he has looked out of place is in strength, agility, awareness, and endurance.


In WBS his skating is below the bar as well. He has a terrible 1st step, can't move laterally at all and in general skates with a stiff body through to his blades. He can't adjust to pucks, can't win races and in general looks horrible on skates. I can't imagine that they were talking about WBS here, because that is even more off base.

If you think his straight line speed is ok, or for that matter even matters in the NHL then we definitely assess talent differently. Nobody is in the NHL because all they can do is skate fast in a straight line.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby themethod7 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:05 pm

Defence21 wrote:
themethod7 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:what i would give up for iginla <<< what it will take to get iginla


I think that depends entirely on his loyalty to Calgary. He's a UFA after this season, he wants to win a cup and he's not getting any younger, and Calgary is nowhere close to being a Stanley Cup team. If it looks like they could lose him at the end of the season for nothing, I don't think it's out of the question for the price to be right for Shero to pull the trigger.

Actually, it depends on whether he is placed on the market. If the answer is yes: every team in the playoff hunt will be interested. If the answer is no: he stays in Calgary. The price may very well be right for Shero, but it won't be because the price is cheap. Iginla will be highly sought-after at the deadline, and the only way he's traded for "cheap" is if Calgary mishandles the situation the way Atlanta did with Hossa, waiting until the very last minute, then pulling the trigger in the last minute on a lesser deal than what could have been had earlier in the day.


This is pretty much what I had in mind, Calgary's FO has been less than stellar over the past decade, though I'll agree that the Pens would be one of many lined up for his services if he was put on the market.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:15 pm

iginla will have a lot of suitors, and they'll have better trade assets than us. we have some D prospects, but i don't want to give them up for a rental. and after that, our roster players that are on the table that they'd want are...

...hmmm...

yup. which is why we weren't in the hunt for any trades last year either.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Lt. Dish on Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:18 pm

I've come to believe that if Iginla valued winning the Cup as much as 99.99999% of all NHL hockey players do, then he'd have asked to be put on the market by now. But maybe 35 isn't that old an age to reach while waiting for the org to build a contender...
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby pens_CT on Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:45 pm

How about Ryan O’Reilly to the Pens for Simon Despres? O'Reilly seems to have priced himself out of Colorado, and age wise he matches up with Despres. Either move him to left wing on Malkin's line or move Sutter there and keep O' Reilly as the third line center.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby tfrizz on Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:48 pm

pens_CT wrote:How about Ryan O’Reilly to the Pens for Simon Despres? O'Reilly seems to have priced himself out of Colorado, and age wise he matches up with Despres. Either move him to left wing on Malkin's line or move Sutter there and keep O' Reilly as the third line center.


O'Reilly isn't under contract... so where would Despres go?
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Defence21 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:49 pm

Lt. Dish wrote:I've come to believe that if Iginla valued winning the Cup as much as 99.99999% of all NHL hockey players do, then he'd have asked to be put on the market by now. But maybe 35 isn't that old an age to reach while waiting for the org to build a contender...

So, do 99.99999% of hockey players ask for a trade? There are two things to consider. First, some players are loyal to the team that they play for and find it wrong to request a trade. Iginla strikes me as this type. Two, just because he didn't request a trade doesn't mean he wouldn't accept one or isn't open to the idea of playing elsewhere with the goal of winning a Cup.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Defence21 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:51 pm

tfrizz wrote:
pens_CT wrote:How about Ryan O’Reilly to the Pens for Simon Despres? O'Reilly seems to have priced himself out of Colorado, and age wise he matches up with Despres. Either move him to left wing on Malkin's line or move Sutter there and keep O' Reilly as the third line center.


O'Reilly isn't under contract... so where would Despres go?

To Colorado? O'Reilly isn't signed, but he remains Colorado property as an RFA.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby pens_CT on Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:57 pm

Defence21 wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
pens_CT wrote:How about Ryan O’Reilly to the Pens for Simon Despres? O'Reilly seems to have priced himself out of Colorado, and age wise he matches up with Despres. Either move him to left wing on Malkin's line or move Sutter there and keep O' Reilly as the third line center.


O'Reilly isn't under contract... so where would Despres go?

To Colorado? O'Reilly isn't signed, but he remains Colorado property as an RFA.

Yes to Colorado, obviously Shero would have to be given the right to speak to O'Reilly about a contract before any deal would take place. The only concern would be his asking price, supposedly around 4.5 million or so per year. That's what the rumor is anyway.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby André on Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:07 pm

I barely know who Rossi is. I made this thread as we had several ones about specific players popping up and other threads were steered quickly in this direction. The cap space, the targeting of Parise, how it looks on the ice at the moment, and the previous drafts stacking us with defensive prospects also factored in. I think we'll see a wing added. A younger guy that might be kept or a rental. With that said I'm not saying Crosby or Geno needs more skilled wingers to produce, as I'm very aware they've both proven the opposite. I'm sure it would benefit them and the team, however.

With that said, I don't think we're getting Gagner. I say he's a perfect fit for the Oiler's second line. Also, they have an awesome top six or even nine actually, so they're not pathetic. They could sacrifice something for a goalie and/or sold defensive d-man, but were I them I'd rather let Paajarvi and picks go rather than Gagner. I guess anyone outside their super five (Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yakupov, J Schultz) can be bought for the right price though.

I'm thinking we'll get someone from one of three categories:

- 1, Middle aged proven but never/no longer star scorer looking for a fresh start or being dumped by their team if they're out of the race: Penner, Gagne, Ryder, Morrow, Antropov, Roy or Kobasew.
- 2, Older (or just available) star being shipped for assets rather than just losing them for free: Iginla, Semin, Elias, Koivu, Selanne, Hejduk, Alfredsson, etc.
- 3, younger (relatively) talent with upside who hasn't quite broken through yet or fallen off: Boyes, Mueller, Anisimov, Latendresse, etc.

All of these are on the last year of their contracts. Some of them are on one year deals for a reason, I know, but I'm not saying go get Gretzky. If not a solid rental (group 3) something price worthy with potential to reach a nice upside with Sid and Geno is not a bad gamble.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby The Snapshot on Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:22 pm

André wrote:I'm thinking we'll get someone from one of three categories:

- 1, Middle aged proven but never/no longer star scorer looking for a fresh start or being dumped by their team if they're out of the race: Penner, Gagne, Ryder, Morrow, Antropov, Roy or Kobasew.
- 2, Older (or just available) star being shipped for assets rather than just losing them for free: Iginla, Semin, Elias, Koivu, Selanne, Hejduk, Alfredsson, etc.
- 3, younger (relatively) talent with upside who hasn't quite broken through yet or fallen off: Boyes, Mueller, Anisimov, Latendresse, etc.

All of these are on the last year of their contracts. Some of them are on one year deals for a reason, I know, but I'm not saying go get Gretzky. If not a solid rental (group 3) something price worthy with potential to reach a nice upside with Sid and Geno is not a bad gamble.


I like your thinking for sure, but the guys in Categort 2 are those that I just don't see as being available. Elias, Selanne and Hejduk are not leaving their teams and I don't see the team talking into a "leave and return" scenario. They've all won enough and they seem to clearly be settled in with their teams. Other than Selanne, they are all playing on teams that I believe will be in the playoffs anyway except for Semin and he is a bum. Iginla may be available but for a king's ransom.

I think category 1 and 3 are the better ones to look at. I also don't think we need a sniper type anyway, because the idea is to get the puck to Geno and to Neal for shots. They need a qualified, complimentary guy who is great in the corners and can continue plays. Curtis Glencross was mentioned. He seems like a good example. Morrow may have enough left.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby columbia on Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:42 pm

I'd love to see Glencross, but to give him up would imply that Calgary is going to phone it in the for the next 5 years to pick up draft picks.
They seem to be perpetually in "completely mediocre now" mode and don't seem them giving up.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby The Snapshot on Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:47 pm

columbia wrote:I'd love to see Glencross, but to give him up would imply that Calgary is going to phone it in the for the next 5 years to pick up draft picks.
They seem to be perpetually in "completely mediocre now" mode and don't seem them giving up.


Yeah but if he brought some picks or assets it could be sold a lot easier than dumping Iginla.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Lt. Dish on Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:56 pm

Defence21 wrote:
Lt. Dish wrote:I've come to believe that if Iginla valued winning the Cup as much as 99.99999% of all NHL hockey players do, then he'd have asked to be put on the market by now. But maybe 35 isn't that old an age to reach while waiting for the org to build a contender...

So, do 99.99999% of hockey players ask for a trade? There are two things to consider. First, some players are loyal to the team that they play for and find it wrong to request a trade. Iginla strikes me as this type. Two, just because he didn't request a trade doesn't mean he wouldn't accept one or isn't open to the idea of playing elsewhere with the goal of winning a Cup.


Oh, no, Defence, of course not. I get loyalty; I do, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I see I could've expressed myself better. I'm speculating that a player of his caliber would want to win before he hangs it up, but maybe he feels he can give them a little more time. After all, one of the things fans love about him, aside from his talent, is that he seems like a great guy.

IMO, he's proved his loyalty to CGY, and on the team-building front CGY arguably hasn't reciprocated. So, yes--I agree that, when presented with a plum opportunity, he may say enough is enough and accept a trade.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby André on Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:59 pm

Ah yes forgot about Glencross. Probably because he's got three years left on his deal and is an awesome signing at the moment at 2.25 mil in cap hit. They really shouldn't let him go.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby The Snapshot on Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:13 pm

André wrote:Ah yes forgot about Glencross. Probably because he's got three years left on his deal and is an awesome signing at the moment at 2.25 mil in cap hit. They really shouldn't let him go.


That makes him worth more in return though, and he is a lower profile dump than moving Iginla in that little market.

That signing was kind of a great complimentary player for them, when I think they felt they could make a run. I don't think they can now. I know their market doesn't want a rebuild, but maybe management is more realistic?
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby DelPen on Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:28 pm

Canes should be out by March, Semin should be available :)
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby The Snapshot on Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:34 pm

DelPen wrote:Canes should be out by March, Semin should be available :)


What about that Staal kid?
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Lt. Dish on Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:38 pm

The Snapshot wrote:
DelPen wrote:Canes should be out by March, Semin should be available :)


What about that Staal kid?


The one that's kinda like a pterodactyl?
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby netwolf on Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:10 pm

Defence21 wrote:The Penguins don't need a Hal Gill type. They need a crease clearing defenseman who can skate in the Bylsma system.


They might have that player on the roster already in Robert Bortuzzo.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:19 pm

Lt. Dish wrote:
The Snapshot wrote:
DelPen wrote:Canes should be out by March, Semin should be available :)


What about that Staal kid?


The one that's kinda like a pterodactyl?


The one that's signed for 6 mil a year after this season?
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Gaucho on Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:31 pm

You people act as if there is more than one Staal.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby SolidSnake on Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:33 pm

Gaucho wrote:You people act as if there is more than one Staal.

The first one I can think of is Jordan, and did you know he has 3 other brothers.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Gaucho on Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:37 pm

Imagine if they were all playing hockey.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:53 pm

netwolf wrote:
Defence21 wrote:The Penguins don't need a Hal Gill type. They need a crease clearing defenseman who can skate in the Bylsma system.


They might have that player on the roster already in Robert Bortuzzo.


Being that I'm from Thunder Bay and watched the kid in junior before leaving for the OHL, I've said that exact same thing. I think he's much more ready than Despres is, yet they force Despres into the lineup when he could have been sent down at no cost.

I would be perfectly happy with our 6th and 7th D being Bortuzzo and possibly Eaton. DB needs to get him into the lineup. Hopefully Lovejoy is being showcased for a trade tonight.
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