Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Beveridge on Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:51 am

I heard he was scouting Parise.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby mikey287 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:38 am

I'd do Dustin Jeffrey and a conditional 3rd for Pierre-Marc Bouchard. Wild fans wouldn't be too unhappy with that return either, as they are just having trouble using him,. Bouchard plays the right wing well and can play the point on the power play.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby no name on Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:50 am

sil wrote:
columbia wrote:To be fair, this goes back to that "idea" a few weeks ago trading Despres for Seto (which was obviously never going to happen).


Yeah...I would definitely NOT be up for that.


Our defence could use a upgrade more so than our forward unit but any move should not include Despres.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Defence21 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:58 am

mikey287 wrote:I'd do Dustin Jeffrey and a conditional 3rd for Pierre-Marc Bouchard. Wild fans wouldn't be too unhappy with that return either, as they are just having trouble using him,. Bouchard plays the right wing well and can play the point on the power play.

That's a pretty fair deal. From the Penguins' perspective, Jeffrey is an extra who is a nice utility player who can play any of the 12 forward spots in a pinch, but isn't necessarily great at any. The conditional third protects the Penguins in the case that Bouchard suffers an injury and can't play. From the Wild's perspective, they get a relatively young player who Yeo and Fletcher are with and who could find a better fit in another city. They also nab a draft pick that could be as high as a third. All of this for a player they have been sheltering and/or relegating to the fourth line.

Bouchard could be quite interesting in the Penguins' top-six, as he's a playmaker, if I recall correctly, who could make a living distributing the puck to Malkin, Neal, and Crosby. Such a move -- assuming Bennett sticks -- could allow for Dupuis to drop to the third line with Cooke and Sutter, thus dropping Kennedy to the fourth line or shipping him out. I know you're not a Kennedy detractor, Michael, but you've got to admit that bumping Dupuis down to the third line strengthens that line significantly, which also serves to strengthen the entire roster, one would think.

Of course, this could turn out poorly for the Penguins for several reasons. One, Bouchard is smallish and definitely fragile. He may be quick, but his lack of size and physicality are the opposite of what I would like to see out of potential incoming players. His injury history also suggests that he's one hit away from retirement, and he's no good to this team if he's always looking over his shoulder.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby shmenguin on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:11 am

So Bouchard is basically another Sullivan?

Considering the state of things, that's fine I guess
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:24 am

shmenguin wrote:So Bouchard is basically another Sullivan?

Considering the state of things, that's fine I guess


More a Marc Savard than a Sullivan (in multiple senses)
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby scals37 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:27 am

looking at Setoguchi's stats, he's had some incredibly similar numbers to James Neal's pre-penguin production.. That also includes hits and shots..

I know this has been talked about before, and I'm not going to pretend like I've seen him play very often, but why are people writing the idea off and calling him an "empty sweater?" Cap hit is low, isn't desired in MIN anymore, contract is up after next year... just doesn't seem like a bad choice (on paper)
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:30 am

scals37 wrote:looking at Setoguchi's stats, he's had some incredibly similar numbers to James Neal's pre-penguin production.. That also includes hits and shots..

I know this has been talked about before, and I'm not going to pretend like I've seen him play very often, but why are people writing the idea off and calling him an "empty sweater?" Cap hit is low, isn't desired in MIN anymore, contract is up after next year... just doesn't seem like a bad choice (on paper)


Because he had 1 good year like 6 years ago means he's worth it now?
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby scals37 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:38 am

MRandall25 wrote:
scals37 wrote:looking at Setoguchi's stats, he's had some incredibly similar numbers to James Neal's pre-penguin production.. That also includes hits and shots..

I know this has been talked about before, and I'm not going to pretend like I've seen him play very often, but why are people writing the idea off and calling him an "empty sweater?" Cap hit is low, isn't desired in MIN anymore, contract is up after next year... just doesn't seem like a bad choice (on paper)


Because he had 1 good year like 6 years ago means he's worth it now?


His 30 goal season was 4 seasons ago, and has been a 20 goal scorer since then, including last year on a defensive oriented MIN team....
He can skate, he hits, he scores, and he's cap-friendly
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby tfrizz on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:43 am

mikey287 wrote:I'd do Dustin Jeffrey and a conditional 3rd for Pierre-Marc Bouchard. Wild fans wouldn't be too unhappy with that return either, as they are just having trouble using him,. Bouchard plays the right wing well and can play the point on the power play.


I'd be thrilled with that kind of deal.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Defence21 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:43 am

scals37 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
scals37 wrote:looking at Setoguchi's stats, he's had some incredibly similar numbers to James Neal's pre-penguin production.. That also includes hits and shots..

I know this has been talked about before, and I'm not going to pretend like I've seen him play very often, but why are people writing the idea off and calling him an "empty sweater?" Cap hit is low, isn't desired in MIN anymore, contract is up after next year... just doesn't seem like a bad choice (on paper)


Because he had 1 good year like 6 years ago means he's worth it now?


His 30 goal season was 4 seasons ago, and has been a 20 goal scorer since then, including last year on a defensive oriented MIN team....
He can skate, he hits, he scores, and he's cap-friendly

From what I've heard, he lacks motivation and goes decent stretches without producing points. Like you, I can't claim to have watched him closely enough to give a first-hand assessment, but from what I've heard, he's just not in the mold of what this team needs.

Plus, his stats may be similar to Neal's pre-Penguin stats, but he's also two years older than Neal now, and four years older than Neal was when he arrived in Pittsburgh. At 26, he may still have that upside in him, but odds are he's a "what you see is what you get" kind of guy.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby tfrizz on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:45 am

scals37 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
scals37 wrote:looking at Setoguchi's stats, he's had some incredibly similar numbers to James Neal's pre-penguin production.. That also includes hits and shots..

I know this has been talked about before, and I'm not going to pretend like I've seen him play very often, but why are people writing the idea off and calling him an "empty sweater?" Cap hit is low, isn't desired in MIN anymore, contract is up after next year... just doesn't seem like a bad choice (on paper)


Because he had 1 good year like 6 years ago means he's worth it now?


His 30 goal season was 4 seasons ago, and has been a 20 goal scorer since then, including last year on a defensive oriented MIN team....
He can skate, he hits, he scores, and he's cap-friendly


I wouldn't be opposed to getting Setoguchi for the right price. He never really followed up that 30 goal season, but he's been a steady 30-50 point guy. Worse case scenario he's a younger, better (imo) alternative to Kennedy.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Pitts on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:52 am

Watch, I call him an empty sweater and the Pens acquire him and turns into James Neal part II! I'll give you he should at least be a bigger more physical version of Kennedy.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby scals37 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:02 am

Defence21 wrote:
scals37 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
scals37 wrote:looking at Setoguchi's stats, he's had some incredibly similar numbers to James Neal's pre-penguin production.. That also includes hits and shots..

I know this has been talked about before, and I'm not going to pretend like I've seen him play very often, but why are people writing the idea off and calling him an "empty sweater?" Cap hit is low, isn't desired in MIN anymore, contract is up after next year... just doesn't seem like a bad choice (on paper)


Because he had 1 good year like 6 years ago means he's worth it now?


His 30 goal season was 4 seasons ago, and has been a 20 goal scorer since then, including last year on a defensive oriented MIN team....
He can skate, he hits, he scores, and he's cap-friendly

From what I've heard, he lacks motivation and goes decent stretches without producing points. Like you, I can't claim to have watched him closely enough to give a first-hand assessment, but from what I've heard, he's just not in the mold of what this team needs.

Plus, his stats may be similar to Neal's pre-Penguin stats, but he's also two years older than Neal now, and four years older than Neal was when he arrived in Pittsburgh. At 26, he may still have that upside in him, but odds are he's a "what you see is what you get" kind of guy.



according to yahoo sports, they were born in the same year (1987) and drafted in the same year (2005)
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby tfrizz on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:17 am

scals37 wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
scals37 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
scals37 wrote:looking at Setoguchi's stats, he's had some incredibly similar numbers to James Neal's pre-penguin production.. That also includes hits and shots..

I know this has been talked about before, and I'm not going to pretend like I've seen him play very often, but why are people writing the idea off and calling him an "empty sweater?" Cap hit is low, isn't desired in MIN anymore, contract is up after next year... just doesn't seem like a bad choice (on paper)


Because he had 1 good year like 6 years ago means he's worth it now?


His 30 goal season was 4 seasons ago, and has been a 20 goal scorer since then, including last year on a defensive oriented MIN team....
He can skate, he hits, he scores, and he's cap-friendly

From what I've heard, he lacks motivation and goes decent stretches without producing points. Like you, I can't claim to have watched him closely enough to give a first-hand assessment, but from what I've heard, he's just not in the mold of what this team needs.

Plus, his stats may be similar to Neal's pre-Penguin stats, but he's also two years older than Neal now, and four years older than Neal was when he arrived in Pittsburgh. At 26, he may still have that upside in him, but odds are he's a "what you see is what you get" kind of guy.



according to yahoo sports, they were born in the same year (1987) and drafted in the same year (2005)


Correct. Both born in 1987 - Setoguchi (Jan 1) is 8 months older than Neal (Sep 3) though.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Defence21 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:19 am

scals37 wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
scals37 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
scals37 wrote:looking at Setoguchi's stats, he's had some incredibly similar numbers to James Neal's pre-penguin production.. That also includes hits and shots..

I know this has been talked about before, and I'm not going to pretend like I've seen him play very often, but why are people writing the idea off and calling him an "empty sweater?" Cap hit is low, isn't desired in MIN anymore, contract is up after next year... just doesn't seem like a bad choice (on paper)


Because he had 1 good year like 6 years ago means he's worth it now?


His 30 goal season was 4 seasons ago, and has been a 20 goal scorer since then, including last year on a defensive oriented MIN team....
He can skate, he hits, he scores, and he's cap-friendly

From what I've heard, he lacks motivation and goes decent stretches without producing points. Like you, I can't claim to have watched him closely enough to give a first-hand assessment, but from what I've heard, he's just not in the mold of what this team needs.

Plus, his stats may be similar to Neal's pre-Penguin stats, but he's also two years older than Neal now, and four years older than Neal was when he arrived in Pittsburgh. At 26, he may still have that upside in him, but odds are he's a "what you see is what you get" kind of guy.



according to yahoo sports, they were born in the same year (1987) and drafted in the same year (2005)

I was thinking Neal is 24. Maybe I'm wrong there. Regardless, Neal has been here for almost two years now, so comparing Seto's non-Pens stats to Neal's pre-Pens stats isn't parallel. If Seto was two years younger than Neal (which would put him at the age Neal was when the Pens acquired him), then that might be a valid argument.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby scals37 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:33 am

Defence21 wrote:
scals37 wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
scals37 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Because he had 1 good year like 6 years ago means he's worth it now?


His 30 goal season was 4 seasons ago, and has been a 20 goal scorer since then, including last year on a defensive oriented MIN team....
He can skate, he hits, he scores, and he's cap-friendly

From what I've heard, he lacks motivation and goes decent stretches without producing points. Like you, I can't claim to have watched him closely enough to give a first-hand assessment, but from what I've heard, he's just not in the mold of what this team needs.

Plus, his stats may be similar to Neal's pre-Penguin stats, but he's also two years older than Neal now, and four years older than Neal was when he arrived in Pittsburgh. At 26, he may still have that upside in him, but odds are he's a "what you see is what you get" kind of guy.



according to yahoo sports, they were born in the same year (1987) and drafted in the same year (2005)

I was thinking Neal is 24. Maybe I'm wrong there. Regardless, Neal has been here for almost two years now, so comparing Seto's non-Pens stats to Neal's pre-Pens stats isn't parallel. If Seto was two years younger than Neal (which would put him at the age Neal was when the Pens acquired him), then that might be a valid argument.


Of course, but my original point wasn't saying that Seto would become another James Neal.. It's a no-brainer how good JN is and I think it'd be outlandish to expect the pens to hold off to find another 40 goal scorer

My point was that they've had similar production in the past, and Seto has fallen out of favor like Neal had.. He's a realistic trade option and could benefit from a change of scenery on a much more offensive-minded team
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Defence21 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:39 am

scals37 wrote:Of course, but my original point wasn't saying that Seto would become another James Neal.. It's a no-brainer how good JN is and I think it'd be outlandish to expect the pens to hold off to find another 40 goal scorer

My point was that they've had similar production in the past, and Seto has fallen out of favor like Neal had.. He's a realistic trade option and could benefit from a change of scenery on a much more offensive-minded team

I'm just failing at this conversation left and right -- so I think I'll put an end to it and say this: I'm not a huge fan of Seto based on stats and from the assessments I've heard from those I trust who have watched him first-hand. That said, he makes just $3 million and has another year left on his contract. If he could be had for a reasonable trade -- say TK or Jeffrey and a pick, I wouldn't be totally against it. If we get into discussing any prospects or high picks, I want nothing to do with him.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Luckybreak on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:48 am

Bouchard would be cheaper to acquire but I'd prefer Seto. The physicallity would be nice come playoffs and Bennett seems to be a capable set up guy. A Sharks fan told me he never heard Seto described as an 'empty sweater' and was sad to see him go. Perhaps MIN not a good fit for him?

Setoguchi-Crosby-Bennett
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Adams
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby scals37 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:50 am

Defence21 wrote:
scals37 wrote:Of course, but my original point wasn't saying that Seto would become another James Neal.. It's a no-brainer how good JN is and I think it'd be outlandish to expect the pens to hold off to find another 40 goal scorer

My point was that they've had similar production in the past, and Seto has fallen out of favor like Neal had.. He's a realistic trade option and could benefit from a change of scenery on a much more offensive-minded team

I'm just failing at this conversation left and right -- so I think I'll put an end to it and say this: I'm not a huge fan of Seto based on stats and from the assessments I've heard from those I trust who have watched him first-hand. That said, he makes just $3 million and has another year left on his contract. If he could be had for a reasonable trade -- say TK or Jeffrey and a pick, I wouldn't be totally against it. If we get into discussing any prospects or high picks, I want nothing to do with him.


Bang, something to agree upon :fist: :)
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby sil on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:52 am

Not "defending Setoguchi at all costs here," but consider that he went from the team that drafted him, and a team that had made it to at least the second round of the playoffs two years in a row (once to the conference finals), to suddenly playing for a team in a playoff drought with a fan base that prefers to watch college hockey?
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:53 am

They prefer to watch college hockey because their college hockey teams are competitive.
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby scals37 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:53 am

Luckybreak wrote:Bouchard would be cheaper to acquire but I'd prefer Seto. The physicallity would be nice come playoffs and Bennett seems to be a capable set up guy. A Sharks fan told me he never heard Seto described as an 'empty sweater' and was sad to see him go. Perhaps MIN not a good fit for him?

Setoguchi-Crosby-Bennett
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Adams


I'd be SHOCKED to see Sid click long-term with two brand new wingers thise season given his past trials.. but I have high hopes for Bennett and of course see Seto as a pretty reasonable experiment
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Luckybreak on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:03 pm

scals37 wrote:
Luckybreak wrote:Bouchard would be cheaper to acquire but I'd prefer Seto. The physicallity would be nice come playoffs and Bennett seems to be a capable set up guy. A Sharks fan told me he never heard Seto described as an 'empty sweater' and was sad to see him go. Perhaps MIN not a good fit for him?

Setoguchi-Crosby-Bennett
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis
Glass-Vitale-Adams


I'd be SHOCKED to see Sid click long-term with two brand new wingers thise season given his past trials.. but I have high hopes for Bennett and of course see Seto as a pretty reasonable experiment


I don't know, he made Cooke and TK look pretty great as essentially brand new wingers! Seto and BB have the speed/hockey IQ to make it work IMO.
Not to take anything away from Kunitz and Dupuis chemistry with Sid but reuniting the 'best line in hockey' and replacing TK improves 3 lines at once :D
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Re: Wingers 12-13 season (speculation, name drops, etc)

Postby Nizzy on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:05 pm

mikey287 wrote:I'd do Dustin Jeffrey and a conditional 3rd for Pierre-Marc Bouchard. Wild fans wouldn't be too unhappy with that return either, as they are just having trouble using him,. Bouchard plays the right wing well and can play the point on the power play.


With all due respect mikey, and I love your stuff around here. Bouchard looks on-par with Kennedy this year. Looks like another Kennedy, maybe just injury prone. I think the only way I sent DJ off, is if he gets a good 25 games and fails. Before his injury DJ looked like a solid productive 3rd liner.
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